Amiga 4000 Picasso II issues

stevelord · 06 May 2019, 12:22

Hi,

I've got my Amiga 4000 up and running with a Picasso II. It's running OS 3.9, and appears it was last updated around 2015/16. The OS install looks like it's had different hardware over time, and has a bit of cruft, so I'll probably reinstall at some point but for now I'm having a couple of problems with my Picasso II.

Workbench is running, and RTG games (e.g. OnEscapee) work fine, but when I try to run non-RTG games installed to the hard disk, the screen hangs but the software is obviously running (I can hear sound etc).

If I use lower resolution AGA modes, the Amiga video passthrough works, but it's a small section of the centre of the screen, is very dim and mildly wobbly.

Strangely when I boot the screen is black. I only get video output once Workbench has started.

I'd like to be able to view the boot process, test a couple of games out so I can have the odd game of Lotus, Flashback etc. I'd also like to fix the darkness, size and screen wobble in older modes.

So far I've looked at some of the threads in here, and candidates for fixes include:

* Monitor sync
* Checking resistors on the PII
* Updating/Reinstalling the Picasso96 software
* Clearing some of the AGA modes with PicassoModeTNG

I've found a manual in German, but my German is really spectacularly bad, has anyone seen one in English anywhere? There was a thread about uploading a scan to the Archive but it looks like it never happened.

Any thoughts/help offered would be gratefully received at this stage. I've never had a big box Amiga before and it's been at least a decade since I've done anything beyond playing games on UAE, so I'm still finding my feet.

Cheers,
Steve

gdonner · 08 May 2019, 01:36

Hi Steve,

My first thought would be to check and/or replace the electrolytic capacitors on the Picasso II. I just had the ones on my PicassoIV done, and will need to have my Ariadne Ethernet card done as well.

The screen being black during bootup seems normal to me--at least it is on my A3000 w/CyberVision 64/3D card and running P96. Only when Workbench finally loads does anything actually get output to the screen (providing you have no commands being launched in S:Startup-sequence that are directing their output to the screen, which would open a Shell window during the boot process).

One more thing you could try, and that is: give your Amiga 4000's motherboard <-> daughter slot (and CPU processor slot) as well as the slots on the daughterboard itself a good scrub with a clean toothbrush and isopropyl alchohol. This was key for me in getting my A3000 to recognize my X-Surf 100 card. Once I did that, everything was recognized fine. Just be sure you're well grounded before delving into your Amiga 4000 though!

Also, be sure to clean the edges of each card you have plugged into your A4000 daughterboard (I use an eye glasses cleaning cloth--works well).

If you haven't already, I would also recommend getting your A4000's motherboard, CPU card (assuming you have an A3640?) and power supply recapped as well. If it's not already, be sure the motherboard's "Varta" barrel battery is replaced with a coin cell-style one, so you don't have any leakage problems.

It's not an easy process.

It's costly, but worth it in the end; done this for both my A3000 and my A4000...a once-in-20-years routine. :-|

I hope this helps!

Greg

stevelord · 08 May 2019, 02:23

Hi Greg,

Thanks for getting back to me! I'm not used to RTG, having been out of my price range in the 90s. As I understand it the Amiga itself has been recapped but I don't think the picasso II has. I'll take a look into that. The PSU internals are supposed to have been upgraded with an ATX PSU.

I haven't taken the lid off yet, I've been waiting till my A3660 arrives. Do you find normal modes faded and kind of as though they're in a smaller square on your PIV, or does it all look the same on yours?

Cheers,
Steve

gdonner · 09 May 2019, 00:41

No problem at all, and I think you'll love RTG! The PicassoII is a good, solid card to start with--was what I actually started with when VillageTronic had just started selling them, along with OS 3.1 to their customers.

My PicassoIV was actually working fine before I sent it off for recapping, so I had no fading or reduction in image quality--all the displays were good. I had it recapped as a preventative measure. Do you know if your A4000 has the SuperBuster v11 chip? If socketed, and it's a v7 or v9 revision, it would be a good idea to put that version in--a number of Zorro cards require v11 for stable operation (the X-Surf 100 being one of them), and it's a pretty easy task to pull it with a PLCC puller and pop the new one in. Just about any Amiga dealer sells the v11 SuperBusters.

BTW, if your A4000 has indeed been recapped, then that's a big step forward already done. No worries about the A3660 needing any attention; just set the two J100 jumpers on your 4000's motherboard to 2-3 "EXT".

Oddly enough, I also have an A4000 PSU with an ATX inside, but since it blew its fuse, I'm still trying to find someone that repairs PSUs--not just recaps.

r.cade · 09 May 2019, 01:41

Just making sure you realize that the Picasso is just a passthrough and your monitor must support 15KHz to function with Amiga chipset video?

If you think the passthrough is just not working and your monitor supports 15KHz, you can just hook it up straight to the motherboard and see if the video works properly.

stevelord · 10 May 2019, 03:29

I'm waiting on a regular monitor to VGA converter then will try it out elsewhere to be sure that 15khz isn't the problem. I've noticed it goes crazy on NTSC.

Still, the wibbly wobbly bit and the general noise is indicative of poor filtering. I'm tempted to look into options for noise insulation and maybe extra filtering.

For gdonner: AFAIK the SuperBuster 11 is in the socket - that's what I was told. I'll check J100 when I open the case up next.

stevelord · 16 May 2019, 01:59

Ok, I opened the lid. I'm not sure that was the winning move I thought it was.

It looks like, stuck to the underside of the Picasso II is a GBS-8220 with a few mods involving copper tape. I noticed a burn mark on a resistor on the Picasso, with the resistor removed. Given that these problems only show up in AGA modes, I'm inclined to believe the problem is with the GBS, not the Picasso.

Frankly I'm a little terrified to see things soldered to the card, and a set of cables running around the inside of the case... somewhere...

Part of me is tempted to remove the GBS and wiring, then get a multisync monitor. Part of me's a little scared to do so.

Jope · 16 May 2019, 07:51

That burned resistor is probably there on 100% of the Picassos. :-) Modern monitors/monitor cables burn a resistor near the VGA connector when connected.

I'd recommend restoring the system to its pre-GBS state and then responsibly disposing of the GBS.

A better AGA compatible scandoubler/flickerfixer would be a good idea.

stevelord · 16 May 2019, 11:54

Thanks for that. I think I'll try to do this, I'm just a bit concerned about surprises.

Are there any scandoubler/flickerfixer's you'd recommend, or would it be better to get a multisync monitor like the BenQ BL702A? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-BL702A...dp/B00DZFOVZW/)

Jope · 16 May 2019, 11:58

A 15kHz capable monitor is not a bad idea.

I recommend the Indivision AGA mk1 for A4000 VGA use. Can be a bit difficult to find.

stevelord · 17 May 2019, 19:38

Long term I'm getting an MNT ZZ9000, so this won't be a problem. I think in the medium term I'll get a 23-pin to VGA and hook this up to the BenQ via the RGB port, which will let me get rid of the GBS entirely. The HSync wire broke yesterday and I had to trim and solder it back onto the Picasso II's VGA port. I've seen some options for replacing the GBS controller with an ESP8266, and I have tons of them around but I don't fancy messing with anything hooked into the Picasso.

stevelord · 20 May 2019, 19:42

Just as a followup for anyone having trouble with dark screens on a GBS-8200 or GBS-8220, there are 3 potentiometer resistors near the main cable. Turn them all to the left and the picture will be at full brightness again.

gdonner · 21 May 2019, 04:45

@ stevelord: Nice find on the potentiometer resistors.

And I'm with you on the ZZ9000. Can't wait to get mine... until then, my recapped PicassoIV should keep my A4000 happy.

06 May 2019, 12:22	#1
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Amiga 4000 Picasso II issues Hi, I've got my Amiga 4000 up and running with a Picasso II. It's running OS 3.9, and appears it was last updated around 2015/16. The OS install looks like it's had different hardware over time, and has a bit of cruft, so I'll probably reinstall at some point but for now I'm having a couple of problems with my Picasso II. Workbench is running, and RTG games (e.g. OnEscapee) work fine, but when I try to run non-RTG games installed to the hard disk, the screen hangs but the software is obviously running (I can hear sound etc). If I use lower resolution AGA modes, the Amiga video passthrough works, but it's a small section of the centre of the screen, is very dim and mildly wobbly. Strangely when I boot the screen is black. I only get video output once Workbench has started. I'd like to be able to view the boot process, test a couple of games out so I can have the odd game of Lotus, Flashback etc. I'd also like to fix the darkness, size and screen wobble in older modes. So far I've looked at some of the threads in here, and candidates for fixes include: * Monitor sync * Checking resistors on the PII * Updating/Reinstalling the Picasso96 software * Clearing some of the AGA modes with PicassoModeTNG I've found a manual in German, but my German is really spectacularly bad, has anyone seen one in English anywhere? There was a thread about uploading a scan to the Archive but it looks like it never happened. Any thoughts/help offered would be gratefully received at this stage. I've never had a big box Amiga before and it's been at least a decade since I've done anything beyond playing games on UAE, so I'm still finding my feet. Cheers, Steve

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Amiga 4000/40 boot-up issues	KKnD	support.Hardware	5	31 July 2016 01:31
Picasso IV : Flicker Fixer issues	Amon_RA	support.Hardware	2	08 May 2016 13:04
sound issues on Amiga 4000	sovietconscript	support.Hardware	10	13 November 2012 15:07
amiga 4000/40 video issues	sovietconscript	support.Hardware	4	02 March 2012 21:03
2 small issues with my new Picasso IV	VermillioN	support.Hardware	28	25 August 2007 06:01

08 May 2019, 01:36	#2
gdonner Ancient Amiga User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Elkhart, IN USA Posts: 208	Hi Steve, My first thought would be to check and/or replace the electrolytic capacitors on the Picasso II. I just had the ones on my PicassoIV done, and will need to have my Ariadne Ethernet card done as well. The screen being black during bootup seems normal to me--at least it is on my A3000 w/CyberVision 64/3D card and running P96. Only when Workbench finally loads does anything actually get output to the screen (providing you have no commands being launched in S:Startup-sequence that are directing their output to the screen, which would open a Shell window during the boot process). One more thing you could try, and that is: give your Amiga 4000's motherboard <-> daughter slot (and CPU processor slot) as well as the slots on the daughterboard itself a good scrub with a clean toothbrush and isopropyl alchohol. This was key for me in getting my A3000 to recognize my X-Surf 100 card. Once I did that, everything was recognized fine. Just be sure you're well grounded before delving into your Amiga 4000 though! Also, be sure to clean the edges of each card you have plugged into your A4000 daughterboard (I use an eye glasses cleaning cloth--works well). If you haven't already, I would also recommend getting your A4000's motherboard, CPU card (assuming you have an A3640?) and power supply recapped as well. If it's not already, be sure the motherboard's "Varta" barrel battery is replaced with a coin cell-style one, so you don't have any leakage problems. It's not an easy process. It's costly, but worth it in the end; done this for both my A3000 and my A4000...a once-in-20-years routine. :-\| I hope this helps! Greg

08 May 2019, 02:23	#3
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Hi Greg, Thanks for getting back to me! I'm not used to RTG, having been out of my price range in the 90s. As I understand it the Amiga itself has been recapped but I don't think the picasso II has. I'll take a look into that. The PSU internals are supposed to have been upgraded with an ATX PSU. I haven't taken the lid off yet, I've been waiting till my A3660 arrives. Do you find normal modes faded and kind of as though they're in a smaller square on your PIV, or does it all look the same on yours? Cheers, Steve

09 May 2019, 00:41	#4
gdonner Ancient Amiga User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Elkhart, IN USA Posts: 208	No problem at all, and I think you'll love RTG! The PicassoII is a good, solid card to start with--was what I actually started with when VillageTronic had just started selling them, along with OS 3.1 to their customers. My PicassoIV was actually working fine before I sent it off for recapping, so I had no fading or reduction in image quality--all the displays were good. I had it recapped as a preventative measure. Do you know if your A4000 has the SuperBuster v11 chip? If socketed, and it's a v7 or v9 revision, it would be a good idea to put that version in--a number of Zorro cards require v11 for stable operation (the X-Surf 100 being one of them), and it's a pretty easy task to pull it with a PLCC puller and pop the new one in. Just about any Amiga dealer sells the v11 SuperBusters. BTW, if your A4000 has indeed been recapped, then that's a big step forward already done. No worries about the A3660 needing any attention; just set the two J100 jumpers on your 4000's motherboard to 2-3 "EXT". Oddly enough, I also have an A4000 PSU with an ATX inside, but since it blew its fuse, I'm still trying to find someone that repairs PSUs--not just recaps.

09 May 2019, 01:41	#5
r.cade Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Augusta, Georgia, USA Posts: 552	Just making sure you realize that the Picasso is just a passthrough and your monitor must support 15KHz to function with Amiga chipset video? If you think the passthrough is just not working and your monitor supports 15KHz, you can just hook it up straight to the motherboard and see if the video works properly.

10 May 2019, 03:29	#6
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	I'm waiting on a regular monitor to VGA converter then will try it out elsewhere to be sure that 15khz isn't the problem. I've noticed it goes crazy on NTSC. Still, the wibbly wobbly bit and the general noise is indicative of poor filtering. I'm tempted to look into options for noise insulation and maybe extra filtering. For gdonner: AFAIK the SuperBuster 11 is in the socket - that's what I was told. I'll check J100 when I open the case up next.

16 May 2019, 01:59	#7
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Ok, I opened the lid. I'm not sure that was the winning move I thought it was. It looks like, stuck to the underside of the Picasso II is a GBS-8220 with a few mods involving copper tape. I noticed a burn mark on a resistor on the Picasso, with the resistor removed. Given that these problems only show up in AGA modes, I'm inclined to believe the problem is with the GBS, not the Picasso. Frankly I'm a little terrified to see things soldered to the card, and a set of cables running around the inside of the case... somewhere... Part of me is tempted to remove the GBS and wiring, then get a multisync monitor. Part of me's a little scared to do so.

16 May 2019, 07:51	#8
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,907	That burned resistor is probably there on 100% of the Picassos. :-) Modern monitors/monitor cables burn a resistor near the VGA connector when connected. I'd recommend restoring the system to its pre-GBS state and then responsibly disposing of the GBS. A better AGA compatible scandoubler/flickerfixer would be a good idea.

16 May 2019, 11:54	#9
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Thanks for that. I think I'll try to do this, I'm just a bit concerned about surprises. Are there any scandoubler/flickerfixer's you'd recommend, or would it be better to get a multisync monitor like the BenQ BL702A? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-BL702A...dp/B00DZFOVZW/)

16 May 2019, 11:58	#10
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,907	A 15kHz capable monitor is not a bad idea. I recommend the Indivision AGA mk1 for A4000 VGA use. Can be a bit difficult to find.

17 May 2019, 19:38	#11
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Long term I'm getting an MNT ZZ9000, so this won't be a problem. I think in the medium term I'll get a 23-pin to VGA and hook this up to the BenQ via the RGB port, which will let me get rid of the GBS entirely. The HSync wire broke yesterday and I had to trim and solder it back onto the Picasso II's VGA port. I've seen some options for replacing the GBS controller with an ESP8266, and I have tons of them around but I don't fancy messing with anything hooked into the Picasso.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

20 May 2019, 19:42	#12
stevelord Registered User Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: UK Posts: 540	Just as a followup for anyone having trouble with dark screens on a GBS-8200 or GBS-8220, there are 3 potentiometer resistors near the main cable. Turn them all to the left and the picture will be at full brightness again.

21 May 2019, 04:45	#13
gdonner Ancient Amiga User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Elkhart, IN USA Posts: 208	@ stevelord: Nice find on the potentiometer resistors. And I'm with you on the ZZ9000. Can't wait to get mine... until then, my recapped PicassoIV should keep my A4000 happy.