SCSI HD Bootup/Mounting Problem (Possibly SFS Related?)

CU_AMiGA · 29 May 2007, 00:39

Hey Yo!

Recently i made the decision to switch from IDE to SCSI. I currently have a 8GB SCSI HD and use the SCSI interface on the CSMK3. After testing to see whether my SCSI HD and SCSI setup in general works using FFS (SCSI termination, read/write), i decided to switch to SFS. I remember last time have a hard time setting up this bugger. Anyway, after going through the trouble of getting SFS even recognised properly as a Custom File System, i finally got it recognised as SFS\00. Here is the settings i used (for reference):

Indentifier: 0x53465300
Mask: 0x7FFFFFFE
MaxTransfer: 0x7FFFFFFF
Block Size: 512

I am guessing these settings are correct, as everything else i put before this, the file system got recognised as CFS\00!!!

Now i have 2 spare IDE hard drives that i use, 1 with OS3.5 and one with OS3.9 (my main backup). Now, i think it's worth mentioning here that when i formatted (quick format) the SCSI HD with FFS, this HD only got mounted (on the desktop) with the IDE HD with OS3.9 on. But when i formatted (also quick format) the SCSI HD with SFS, it only gets mounted with the IDE HD with OS3.5 on. But on both IDE HD, the SCSI HD gets recognised using HDToolbox (and the Phase 5 SCSI HDToolbox). I carried on despite this (i haven't yet made the SCSI HD bootable). Using the OS3.5 HD as the bootup HD, i used this HD to install OS3.9 onto the empty SCSI HD and also i copied over the latest 68060 library files (if thats worth noting).

Now i used that checkpoint to make the SCSI HD bootable on it's own and see if it works so far without the use of any IDE HD. So i fired it up (fingers crossed!) and........ DAMN!

I knew it was too good to be true! The SCSI HD refuses to bootup!!! The HD seems to get accessed, but after the reboot, the machine seems to freeze: No Amiga output from the Picasso IV and also i get the flashing green Amiga LED (an error). So when i try again with a reset, or if i switch off the machine and switch back on, i am presented with the red "Software Failure" screen. I haven't much clue as to what is wrong with the SCSI HD. I am guessing there is something on there that is upsetting things. I am not 100% sure is this is an incorrect SFS setup or whether SFS is incompatible with a 4GB+ SCSI HD. Anyone got any clues cos i am banging my head against a brock wall here!

Cheers

thomas · 29 May 2007, 08:53

It's a nice long story but actually there is not enough information to guess what is wrong.

A Guru usually appears if you forgot to store the file system on the HDD with HDtoolbox, but you wrote you did it, also with the right identifier.

The only advice I could give is to make an OS3.9 emergency disk, remove all IDE HDDs and boot from the emergency disk to set up the SCSI drive. This way you don't confuse file systems.

If you need further help, please make some hardcopies, especially those:
http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...n03install.png
http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...4partition.png
http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...en05change.png
http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...6addupdate.png

thomas · 29 May 2007, 09:02

What I forgot to mention is that the CSMK3 is very pedantic when it comes to SCSI termination. Make sure you have active terminators on both ends of the cables and use 68pin cables only. Also one of the SCSI drives has to supply term power, otherwise the terminators won't work. The CSMK3 has neither termination nor termination power built in.

CU_AMiGA · 29 May 2007, 14:48

Hi

Thanks for the reply Thomas. Here is a quick diagram of the SCSI termination setup:

ultra-2 lvd/se terminator
][
csmk3 scsi port
][
8gb scsi hd
][
ultra-320 lvd/se terminator

Other notes i should make. I made an emergancy disk and tried to bootup with this, but i couldn't (it asked for scsi.device i think). I use 68pin SCSI cable but i am not sure about SCSI Termination power. Please see this thread maybe as a reference: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=25223 It's worth noting that this SCSI HD seemed to work perfectly with FFS.

I can't do too much at the mo as i am not at home, but i will try again later. I think i saved the HDToolbox settings maybe on a different IDE HD (as i used HDToolbox from an IDE HD rather than using the HDTool from the SCSI HD when OS3.9 got installed.

CU_AMiGA · 02 June 2007, 22:18

Well i used the HDToolbox on the SCSI HD and saved it as normal and i sill get the same result as above. The only other idea i got is maybe try an earlier SFS version. Anyone else got any other ideas?

EDIT: How do i make hard copies of the above screenshots?

thomas · 03 June 2007, 10:07

Quote:

How do i make hard copies of the above screenshots?

http://aminet.net/package/util/wb/sgrab or
http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...loads/grab.lha

Quote:

I made an emergancy disk and tried to bootup with this, but i couldn't (it asked for scsi.device i think).

Don't change the hardware config after creating the disk. Especially don't (re-)move the CD-ROM drive.

Bye,
Thomas

CU_AMiGA · 03 June 2007, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

Don't change the hardware config after creating the disk. Especially don't (re-)move the CD-ROM drive.

Nope. I didn't change anything

Calgor · 03 June 2007, 17:43

If you have changed the position of the CD-rom after creating the emergency disk, you need to look at the file on the emergency floppy called devs/dosdrivers/emergency_cd.

Particular importance is the device name (scsi.device/cybppc.device, etc) and unit number (ide 0/1, scsi whatever your scsi id is).

I just had to edit my os3.9 emergency floppy so I could get a CDrom in wb3.1 :P

CU_AMiGA · 09 June 2007, 16:46

Here are the pics you requested Thomas. Can you make anything from these?

thomas · 09 June 2007, 18:31

SFS Version 0.0 ? Where did you get this file from ? Looks either corrupted or very old. Get SFS.lha from Aminet, it contains version 1.270. HDToolbox should automatically detect the version.

Also you should use more than 80 buffers. I'd use 200 for the small partition and 1000 for the big one.

Calgor · 09 June 2007, 18:41

Wish I could help you there, everything looks fine to me. Funnily enough, i am about to do the very same thing tomorrow, move from FFS on CSPPC SCSI to SFS. But only with os3.1.

Just a wild guess (as i've never installed a new filesystem to RDB), but it almost sounds like you have SFS installed only to the RDB of the IDE os3.5 drive, but on neither the IDE os3.9 or the scsi sfs drive.

EDIT: sounds like thomas is on the right track, you got some rdb problems perhaps.

CU_AMiGA · 09 June 2007, 21:37

how would i save to the rdb of the scsi hd when i can only use the ide hdtoolbox at the beginning of the formatting process?

thomas · 10 June 2007, 14:00

Get your emergency disk going. Or connect the IDE HDD again.

CU_AMiGA · 10 June 2007, 16:00

OK update here. I have now used the sfs from aminet like Thomas suggested. I installed this version of SFS exactly the same as before, making sure i use HDToolBox on the SCSI HD and also saving on the device too. Now SFS works well as it should. I have one last worry. I couldn't use the emergancy disk at all, so i had to install OS3.9 onto the SCSI HD without the emergancy disk. I kept getting the message "cannot open atapi.device" during bootup (of the emergancy disk). I had a look on the disk and noticed atapi.device was not in the device folder, so i copied the file from my IDE HD to the emergancy disk. Now when i try to bootup the emergancy disk, the machine keeps rebooting. I have tried both CD options (IDE Fix and SCSI.device) during the installation of the emergancy disk. I have also tried booting the emrgancy disk with/without the IDE HD connected - i have never moved the CD ROM either. Now i have 2 questions:

1) Is the emergancy disk important for the installation of Amiga OS 3.9
2) What is the problem with my emergancy disk and how do i solve it?

Mad-Matt · 10 June 2007, 16:43

try this config. ide hd as unit 0 and a cdrom as unit 1.
set the cd driver on the floppy to use scsi.device unit 1
The rom update on the disk will update scsi.device to recognise the cdrom on unit 1. Hopefully the system will now boot.

CU_AMiGA · 10 June 2007, 16:57

Tried that - didn't work. It was mentioned in the EmergancyCD file.

thomas · 10 June 2007, 19:13

Quote:

1) Is the emergancy disk important for the installation of Amiga OS 3.9

Not really. The only thing is that you need to install OS3.9 from a running OS3.9. So either boot OS3.9 from your old drive and install it then to the new drive, or install it once, reboot and then install it again.

You recognise that it has not been installed correctly if it looks like the attached image (note the bad looking icons in the amidock).

Quote:

2) What is the problem with my emergancy disk and how do i solve it?

The problem is that IDEfix is fighting against the AmigaOS ROM Update. I am not sure if this can be fixed in the emergency disk. Try to replace the setpatch line in startup-sequence by

SetPatch QUIET SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device"

Maybe your version of IDEfix is too old. I never had this problem with the IDEfix97 version from Aminet.

If your CD-ROM is connected without the IDEfix hardware or to the first channel of the IDEfix hardware, then you don't need the IDEfix software. The software is only needed for the second channel. Just delete atapi.device from the emergency disk and edit devs/dosdrivers/emergency_cd to read device=scsi.device instead of device=atapi.device. (This is true only for OS3.5 and above. OS3.1 needs IDEfix software for the CD-ROM drive.)

Calgor · 10 June 2007, 19:30

LOL, your machine keeps rebooting problem is the same problem I had when installing the 3.9BB2 ROM update, and I used the line suggested by Thomas to fix it, or as another alternative, I got rid of the BB2 ROM Update (by renaming the original OS3.9 ROM Update file in its place).

CU_AMiGA · 11 June 2007, 00:53

OK Guys thanks for your help so far. I have one more query!

I have noticed that sometimes the workbench bar at the top of a partition window would say i have more space than i have, sometimes even more than the capacity!!! For example; in the Workbench partition, that is 500MB capacity, it would say at the top bar in the window that i have 595mb left (even though the capacity is only 500MB), but when i look in the icon info window it would say i have 471MB left (which is infact correct), this is happening with the SFS installed (i have no idea whether it happened with FFS installed). Is this normal and should i just laugh it off? I get no other problems like read/write errors. I have a gut feeling that people may say it could be a SCSI termination/power problem. Well, the SCSI diagram is at the top and my SCSI HD is a Quantum Atlas IV - hard drive - 9.1 GB - Ultra160 SCSI. Here is some info if needed:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=325322&postcount=21

The SCSI cable i have is 1 metre long and has 6 connecters and is 68 pin. No one mentioned a problem with my SCSI configuration from my SCSI diagram above so fingers crossed, eh!

CU_AMiGA · 11 June 2007, 01:00

Oh yeah, if it helps i ran that check4gb prog off aminet and i got the all clear!!!

29 May 2007, 00:39	#1
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	SCSI HD Bootup/Mounting Problem (Possibly SFS Related?) Hey Yo! Recently i made the decision to switch from IDE to SCSI. I currently have a 8GB SCSI HD and use the SCSI interface on the CSMK3. After testing to see whether my SCSI HD and SCSI setup in general works using FFS (SCSI termination, read/write), i decided to switch to SFS. I remember last time have a hard time setting up this bugger. Anyway, after going through the trouble of getting SFS even recognised properly as a Custom File System, i finally got it recognised as SFS\00. Here is the settings i used (for reference): Indentifier: 0x53465300 Mask: 0x7FFFFFFE MaxTransfer: 0x7FFFFFFF Block Size: 512 I am guessing these settings are correct, as everything else i put before this, the file system got recognised as CFS\00!!! Now i have 2 spare IDE hard drives that i use, 1 with OS3.5 and one with OS3.9 (my main backup). Now, i think it's worth mentioning here that when i formatted (quick format) the SCSI HD with FFS, this HD only got mounted (on the desktop) with the IDE HD with OS3.9 on. But when i formatted (also quick format) the SCSI HD with SFS, it only gets mounted with the IDE HD with OS3.5 on. But on both IDE HD, the SCSI HD gets recognised using HDToolbox (and the Phase 5 SCSI HDToolbox). I carried on despite this (i haven't yet made the SCSI HD bootable). Using the OS3.5 HD as the bootup HD, i used this HD to install OS3.9 onto the empty SCSI HD and also i copied over the latest 68060 library files (if thats worth noting). Now i used that checkpoint to make the SCSI HD bootable on it's own and see if it works so far without the use of any IDE HD. So i fired it up (fingers crossed!) and........ DAMN! I knew it was too good to be true! The SCSI HD refuses to bootup!!! The HD seems to get accessed, but after the reboot, the machine seems to freeze: No Amiga output from the Picasso IV and also i get the flashing green Amiga LED (an error). So when i try again with a reset, or if i switch off the machine and switch back on, i am presented with the red "Software Failure" screen. I haven't much clue as to what is wrong with the SCSI HD. I am guessing there is something on there that is upsetting things. I am not 100% sure is this is an incorrect SFS setup or whether SFS is incompatible with a 4GB+ SCSI HD. Anyone got any clues cos i am banging my head against a brock wall here! Cheers

09 June 2007, 16:46	#9
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Here are the pics you requested Thomas. Can you make anything from these? Last edited by CU_AMiGA; 12 August 2011 at 20:07.

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29 May 2007, 08:53	#2
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,009	It's a nice long story but actually there is not enough information to guess what is wrong. A Guru usually appears if you forgot to store the file system on the HDD with HDtoolbox, but you wrote you did it, also with the right identifier. The only advice I could give is to make an OS3.9 emergency disk, remove all IDE HDDs and boot from the emergency disk to set up the SCSI drive. This way you don't confuse file systems. If you need further help, please make some hardcopies, especially those: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...n03install.png http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...4partition.png http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...en05change.png http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online...6addupdate.png

29 May 2007, 09:02	#3
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,009	What I forgot to mention is that the CSMK3 is very pedantic when it comes to SCSI termination. Make sure you have active terminators on both ends of the cables and use 68pin cables only. Also one of the SCSI drives has to supply term power, otherwise the terminators won't work. The CSMK3 has neither termination nor termination power built in.

29 May 2007, 14:48	#4
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Hi Thanks for the reply Thomas. Here is a quick diagram of the SCSI termination setup: ultra-2 lvd/se terminator ][ csmk3 scsi port ][ 8gb scsi hd ][ ultra-320 lvd/se terminator Other notes i should make. I made an emergancy disk and tried to bootup with this, but i couldn't (it asked for scsi.device i think). I use 68pin SCSI cable but i am not sure about SCSI Termination power. Please see this thread maybe as a reference: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=25223 It's worth noting that this SCSI HD seemed to work perfectly with FFS. I can't do too much at the mo as i am not at home, but i will try again later. I think i saved the HDToolbox settings maybe on a different IDE HD (as i used HDToolbox from an IDE HD rather than using the HDTool from the SCSI HD when OS3.9 got installed.

02 June 2007, 22:18	#5
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Well i used the HDToolbox on the SCSI HD and saved it as normal and i sill get the same result as above. The only other idea i got is maybe try an earlier SFS version. Anyone else got any other ideas? EDIT: How do i make hard copies of the above screenshots?

03 June 2007, 17:43	#8
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	If you have changed the position of the CD-rom after creating the emergency disk, you need to look at the file on the emergency floppy called devs/dosdrivers/emergency_cd. Particular importance is the device name (scsi.device/cybppc.device, etc) and unit number (ide 0/1, scsi whatever your scsi id is). I just had to edit my os3.9 emergency floppy so I could get a CDrom in wb3.1 :P

09 June 2007, 18:31	#10
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,009	SFS Version 0.0 ? Where did you get this file from ? Looks either corrupted or very old. Get SFS.lha from Aminet, it contains version 1.270. HDToolbox should automatically detect the version. Also you should use more than 80 buffers. I'd use 200 for the small partition and 1000 for the big one.

09 June 2007, 18:41	#11
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	Wish I could help you there, everything looks fine to me. Funnily enough, i am about to do the very same thing tomorrow, move from FFS on CSPPC SCSI to SFS. But only with os3.1. Just a wild guess (as i've never installed a new filesystem to RDB), but it almost sounds like you have SFS installed only to the RDB of the IDE os3.5 drive, but on neither the IDE os3.9 or the scsi sfs drive. EDIT: sounds like thomas is on the right track, you got some rdb problems perhaps.

09 June 2007, 21:37	#12
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	how would i save to the rdb of the scsi hd when i can only use the ide hdtoolbox at the beginning of the formatting process?

10 June 2007, 14:00	#13
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,009	Get your emergency disk going. Or connect the IDE HDD again.

10 June 2007, 16:00	#14
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	OK update here. I have now used the sfs from aminet like Thomas suggested. I installed this version of SFS exactly the same as before, making sure i use HDToolBox on the SCSI HD and also saving on the device too. Now SFS works well as it should. I have one last worry. I couldn't use the emergancy disk at all, so i had to install OS3.9 onto the SCSI HD without the emergancy disk. I kept getting the message "cannot open atapi.device" during bootup (of the emergancy disk). I had a look on the disk and noticed atapi.device was not in the device folder, so i copied the file from my IDE HD to the emergancy disk. Now when i try to bootup the emergancy disk, the machine keeps rebooting. I have tried both CD options (IDE Fix and SCSI.device) during the installation of the emergancy disk. I have also tried booting the emrgancy disk with/without the IDE HD connected - i have never moved the CD ROM either. Now i have 2 questions: 1) Is the emergancy disk important for the installation of Amiga OS 3.9 2) What is the problem with my emergancy disk and how do i solve it?

10 June 2007, 16:43	#15
Mad-Matt Longplayer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Lincoln / UK Age: 45 Posts: 1,852	try this config. ide hd as unit 0 and a cdrom as unit 1. set the cd driver on the floppy to use scsi.device unit 1 The rom update on the disk will update scsi.device to recognise the cdrom on unit 1. Hopefully the system will now boot.

10 June 2007, 16:57	#16
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Tried that - didn't work. It was mentioned in the EmergancyCD file.

10 June 2007, 19:30	#18
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	LOL, your machine keeps rebooting problem is the same problem I had when installing the 3.9BB2 ROM update, and I used the line suggested by Thomas to fix it, or as another alternative, I got rid of the BB2 ROM Update (by renaming the original OS3.9 ROM Update file in its place).

11 June 2007, 00:53	#19
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	OK Guys thanks for your help so far. I have one more query! I have noticed that sometimes the workbench bar at the top of a partition window would say i have more space than i have, sometimes even more than the capacity!!! For example; in the Workbench partition, that is 500MB capacity, it would say at the top bar in the window that i have 595mb left (even though the capacity is only 500MB), but when i look in the icon info window it would say i have 471MB left (which is infact correct), this is happening with the SFS installed (i have no idea whether it happened with FFS installed). Is this normal and should i just laugh it off? I get no other problems like read/write errors. I have a gut feeling that people may say it could be a SCSI termination/power problem. Well, the SCSI diagram is at the top and my SCSI HD is a Quantum Atlas IV - hard drive - 9.1 GB - Ultra160 SCSI. Here is some info if needed: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=325322&postcount=21 The SCSI cable i have is 1 metre long and has 6 connecters and is 68 pin. No one mentioned a problem with my SCSI configuration from my SCSI diagram above so fingers crossed, eh!

11 June 2007, 01:00	#20
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Oh yeah, if it helps i ran that check4gb prog off aminet and i got the all clear!!!

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