3.5 ROM?! - What The Devil Is This?!

CU_AMiGA · 03 February 2005, 11:51

Hello My Sharks,

I was on my usual downloading rounds yesterday. I needed to get some ROMs (1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1). Firstly i own these ROMs, but they are in A500/A600 (the A1200 were no problem!

), and are loose so i can't use the ROM grabber tool or whatever. The reason why i was getting these ROMs is for use in WHDLoad.

Anyway, onto the query. I went onto a site that delivered these ROMs for download. They were all there, even ROMs 3.5! I have never heard of this version. I still have it on CD. I was wondering whether this ROM version is any good to use, and will i be able to load it into memory with a tool like Blizkick? Answers will be much appreciated!

Regards,

03 February 2005, 11:53

It's fake. Just a 3.1 one.

CU_AMiGA · 03 February 2005, 12:15

Okay many thanks for the reply. I done a little research and discovered it is indeed a fake! DAMN?1 I thought it may have been a prototype or something.

Regards,

Npl · 03 February 2005, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU_AMiGA

Okay many thanks for the reply. I done a little research and discovered it is indeed a fake! DAMN?1 I thought it may have been a prototype or something.

Regards,

AFAIK it started with A rewritten exec.library. You needed to patch it somehow into your Kickstart image and by doing so it altered the Version-String (cant remember why, maybe the kickstarts version-string is nothing else than the exec.version).

So its not really a "purposed" fake, rather the patched kickstart got spread to people which dint knew about this stuff.

alexh · 03 February 2005, 17:12

I did start to do some work on tools to make "home made" REAL KS3.5 ROM images for burning into EPROMs.

I wanted to be able to "list" the files on ROM images and the versions of the files.

They have hardcoded addresses in them so you cannot swap in / out if the newer files are bigger than the original ones.

It should be possible to change these addresses if you know where they are, especially as the tools for flash boards such as the KickFlash or the Elbox equivalent probably do something similar?

Npl · 03 February 2005, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I did start to do some work on tools to make "home made" REAL KS3.5 ROM images for burning into EPROMs.

What would you call REAL KS3.5 ROMS ? KS3.1 with the Patches from OS3.5/3.9 applied?
Afaik some Kick Versions only have a couple 100`s of Bytes free and the newer libraries are generally bigger, so that would be quite challenging.
You should try out Blizkick, it has a tool which operates into a file instead of patching the kickstart, that way you should be able to apply alot Patches rather easy (but OS3.9 RomUpdate WONT fit into a plain 512 KB File for sure, I already tried).

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I wanted to be able to "list" the files on ROM images and the versions of the files.

They have hardcoded addresses in them so you cannot swap in / out if the newer files are bigger than the original ones.

It should be possible to change these addresses if you know where they are, especially as the tools for flash boards such as the KickFlash or the Elbox equivalent probably do something similar?

I dint really look into it, but once you know which Adresses to change, you of course can add/replace anything you want. Figuring out what you need to do is obviously the hard part.
The Package util/boot/skick345.lha contains fixes to make the kickstart relocateable.. I cant imagine how else WHDLoad would be able to use KickRoms directly. Should be describing exactly what you need to patch.

Kickflash simply replaces the whole ROM 1:1 from a existing file, so its nothing similar. No problems since they dont hack existing kickstarts ?

Anyway this is getting abit offtopic

derSammler · 04 February 2005, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Npl

AFAIK it started with A rewritten exec.library. <...> So its not really a "purposed" fake, rather the patched kickstart got spread to people which dint knew about this stuff.

If CU_AMiGA is talking about the Kickstart 3.5 which is recognized by the TOSEC dat, then this is wrong. It is indeed a fake with no patches or updates. Only some strings were hacked as well as some version numbers, that's all. Not even a single piece of code was modified in any way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I wanted to be able to "list" the files on ROM images and the versions of the files.

There's a tool named kickinfo that can do this. It should be found on Aminet.

alexh · 04 February 2005, 20:25

there is no kickinfo on aminet.

derSammler · 05 February 2005, 12:40

Attached.

alexh · 05 February 2005, 13:48

Took a while to remember what ARP library was but thanks.

Jope · 23 November 2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

there is no kickinfo on aminet.

I know this is an old thread, but I'm currently messing around with kickstart images, so I had to dig up that tool..

It's in the mkick package on Aminet.

PeterK · 23 November 2006, 23:11

@CU_Amiga
There was indeed a faked ROM 3.5 somewhere around on the internet,
with just a few bytes replaced in the strings, but based on a ROM 3.1.

@alexh and npl
If you own one of the original ROMs and also have the OS 3.9 with the
BB2 ROM-Update and some Patches, then you can build your selfmade
ROM 3.9 with everything you like replaced by updates and patches.
There are 2 excellent tools made by Dooberey called RomSplit and Remus.
I've just tested them and could really assemble my own ROM, which starts
WinUAE without any reboot and without needing LoadModule any longer.

http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/index.html

http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/Remus_1-rc7.lha

@alexh
Hmm, sorry Alex, I've just seen that you should know this already,
because you discussed it on AmigaOrg in the following thread:

http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/v...=34437&forum=9

Kickinfo is from the MKick package:
http://aminet.net/util/boot/MKick19.lha

Jope · 23 November 2006, 23:15

I also played around with those and now my A4k, 3kT and a600 all boot from a custom kickstart. ;-)

TjLaZer · 24 November 2006, 04:43

Jope
Did you remove workbench.library? What all options did you add? thinking of doing some myself.

Jope · 24 November 2006, 07:06

Yeah, I left out workbench.library and icon.library.. For the A600 I also left out the pcmcia related stuff (although they don't save much space)

Then some blizkick modules, mostly the bugfix ones.

TjLaZer · 24 November 2006, 07:15

Did you add the WBFind? I was thinking of adding the new icon.library

Jope · 24 November 2006, 09:19

I didn't add wbfind.

In retrospect, icon.library is a good idea to have in the ROM. I've ran into situations when a piece of SW would have needed it and I didn't have a hard disk + WB installed yet.

Perhaps I'll build another set of ROM images with it included.. I'll just have to test whether the 3.9 icon.library works with wb3.1, or whether I need to use the old one.

alexh · 24 November 2006, 10:47

Doobrey is "da man" in this field.

PeterK · 24 November 2006, 22:01

If you need some more space for new libraries and you want to use your
custom ROM file with WinUAE, then you can also remove the scsi.device
and the A4000 bonus and don't add the ROM Update module (not needed).
My ROM file looks like this with KickInfo: KickUAE.rom.txt
....
I've just checked out if it's possible to make the OS 3.5+ icon.library resident
with Remus. Remus has no problem to include it into the ROM, but after the
system has finished booting, this icon.library does not appear in the list of
resident modules. Instead the icon.library from the Libs: drawer is still in use.
It's also not possible to load it resident with 'LoadResident', but it works with
'LoadModule', maybe because LoadModule supports other module/file types??

Does anybody find a way to modify icon.library 45.1 and load it successfully
from a ROM. The docs of LoadModule are talking about some undocumented
file structure. Maybe that's the reason and the key to solve this problem?

Stokey · 02 October 2007, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterK

I've just checked out if it's possible to make the OS 3.5+ icon.library resident
with Remus. Remus has no problem to include it into the ROM, but after the
system has finished booting, this icon.library does not appear in the list of
resident modules. Instead the icon.library from the Libs: drawer is still in use.
It's also not possible to load it resident with 'LoadResident', but it works with
'LoadModule', maybe because LoadModule supports other module/file types??

Does anybody find a way to modify icon.library 45.1 and load it successfully
from a ROM. The docs of LoadModule are talking about some undocumented
file structure. Maybe that's the reason and the key to solve this problem?

OS 3.5 and 3.9 have the following lines in the Startup-Sequence:

C:RemLibrary icon.library
C:RemLibrary workbench.library

If these are still there that may be why icon.library isn't resident.

03 February 2005, 11:51	#1
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	3.5 ROM?! - What The Devil Is This?! Hello My Sharks, I was on my usual downloading rounds yesterday. I needed to get some ROMs (1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1). Firstly i own these ROMs, but they are in A500/A600 (the A1200 were no problem! ), and are loose so i can't use the ROM grabber tool or whatever. The reason why i was getting these ROMs is for use in WHDLoad. Anyway, onto the query. I went onto a site that delivered these ROMs for download. They were all there, even ROMs 3.5! I have never heard of this version. I still have it on CD. I was wondering whether this ROM version is any good to use, and will i be able to load it into memory with a tool like Blizkick? Answers will be much appreciated! Regards,

23 November 2006, 23:11	#12
PeterK Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: digital hell, Germany, after 1984, but worse Posts: 3,378	@CU_Amiga There was indeed a faked ROM 3.5 somewhere around on the internet, with just a few bytes replaced in the strings, but based on a ROM 3.1. @alexh and npl If you own one of the original ROMs and also have the OS 3.9 with the BB2 ROM-Update and some Patches, then you can build your selfmade ROM 3.9 with everything you like replaced by updates and patches. There are 2 excellent tools made by Dooberey called RomSplit and Remus. I've just tested them and could really assemble my own ROM, which starts WinUAE without any reboot and without needing LoadModule any longer. http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/index.html http://www.doobreynet.co.uk/beta/Remus_1-rc7.lha @alexh Hmm, sorry Alex, I've just seen that you should know this already, because you discussed it on AmigaOrg in the following thread: http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/v...=34437&forum=9 Kickinfo is from the MKick package: http://aminet.net/util/boot/MKick19.lha Last edited by PeterK; 23 November 2006 at 23:38.

24 November 2006, 22:01	#19
PeterK Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: digital hell, Germany, after 1984, but worse Posts: 3,378	If you need some more space for new libraries and you want to use your custom ROM file with WinUAE, then you can also remove the scsi.device and the A4000 bonus and don't add the ROM Update module (not needed). My ROM file looks like this with KickInfo: KickUAE.rom.txt .... I've just checked out if it's possible to make the OS 3.5+ icon.library resident with Remus. Remus has no problem to include it into the ROM, but after the system has finished booting, this icon.library does not appear in the list of resident modules. Instead the icon.library from the Libs: drawer is still in use. It's also not possible to load it resident with 'LoadResident', but it works with 'LoadModule', maybe because LoadModule supports other module/file types?? Does anybody find a way to modify icon.library 45.1 and load it successfully from a ROM. The docs of LoadModule are talking about some undocumented file structure. Maybe that's the reason and the key to solve this problem? Last edited by PeterK; 25 November 2006 at 02:00.

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03 February 2005, 11:53	#2
oldpx Posts: n/a	It's fake. Just a 3.1 one.

03 February 2005, 12:15	#3
CU_AMiGA Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exeter Age: 39 Posts: 970	Okay many thanks for the reply. I done a little research and discovered it is indeed a fake! DAMN?1 I thought it may have been a prototype or something. Regards,

03 February 2005, 17:12	#5
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,399	I did start to do some work on tools to make "home made" REAL KS3.5 ROM images for burning into EPROMs. I wanted to be able to "list" the files on ROM images and the versions of the files. They have hardcoded addresses in them so you cannot swap in / out if the newer files are bigger than the original ones. It should be possible to change these addresses if you know where they are, especially as the tools for flash boards such as the KickFlash or the Elbox equivalent probably do something similar?

04 February 2005, 20:25	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,399	there is no kickinfo on aminet.

05 February 2005, 12:40	#9
derSammler Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 1,655	Attached.

05 February 2005, 13:48	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,399	Took a while to remember what ARP library was but thanks.

23 November 2006, 23:15	#13
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,879	I also played around with those and now my A4k, 3kT and a600 all boot from a custom kickstart. ;-)

24 November 2006, 04:43	#14
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,924	Jope Did you remove workbench.library? What all options did you add? thinking of doing some myself.

24 November 2006, 07:06	#15
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,879	Yeah, I left out workbench.library and icon.library.. For the A600 I also left out the pcmcia related stuff (although they don't save much space) Then some blizkick modules, mostly the bugfix ones.

24 November 2006, 07:15	#16
TjLaZer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tacoma, WA USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,924	Did you add the WBFind? I was thinking of adding the new icon.library

24 November 2006, 09:19	#17
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,879	I didn't add wbfind. In retrospect, icon.library is a good idea to have in the ROM. I've ran into situations when a piece of SW would have needed it and I didn't have a hard disk + WB installed yet. Perhaps I'll build another set of ROM images with it included.. I'll just have to test whether the 3.9 icon.library works with wb3.1, or whether I need to use the old one.

24 November 2006, 10:47	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,399	Doobrey is "da man" in this field.

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