Did the pirates killed the Amiga before it's time?

[Tolismlf]

Did the pirates killed the Amiga before it's time?

[keropi]

ela file!

I do not think so, did they kill the pc, or psx or ps2 or anything? Companies killed the Amiga, like they killed OS4...

[Runey]

I'd have to agree with Keropi

The prevalence of piracy on all the major systems is no different to what it was on the Amiga or C64 for that matter.

In fact I'd say, and I'll get flamed for it , piracy has the opposite effect. The ease of which games are available encourages other people to go and buy the hardware, increasing the user base.

Even prevalent pirates still buy games every now and then.

Look at systems that have had less piracy and you'll see they have never lasted as long, or had as many games available for them, as systems that ?suffer? from piracy.

Well thats my opinion, right or wrong

[Tolismlf]

Geia file

My opinion: I think that pirates killed the Amiga when the companies started to fled when the Amiga market was shortening back in Commodore's fall in 1994. So an example is that the pirates gave power to Sony ?? Because everybody has a modded Playstation..

[keropi]

lol! nice one Runey!

Originally Posted by Runey

Look at systems that have had less piracy and you'll see they have never lasted as long, or had as many games available for them, as systems that ?suffer? from piracy.

Well thats my opinion, right or wrong

I'd say Wrong !

Look at the Sega Megadrive (Genesis) & Nintendo SNES.

Whilst it was in theory possible to use pirate carts (those disk-copying things etc...) in these systems the overwhelming majority of people used real games. The Megadrive & SNES where the leading (in terms of marketshare) consoles for a long time and paved the way for the PSX, and the current console scene. The Megadrive & SNES didn't need piracy to survive, and lasted just as long as any other generation of consoles.

On the Amiga the overwhelming majority of users had extensive collections of pirated disks. Whilst in the short-term this helped Commodore sales it eventually resulted in most companies ditching the Amiga and heading for the consoles.

You have to remember at this time also the newer CD based consoles where also uncopyable.

[Runey]

Thanks Keropi. I'm just waiting for the shout of indignation

Piracy has a hastening effect in general. It can hasten the uptake of a new system or hasten the downfall of a fledging system. So becasue of an irreversible shrinking user base the pirates probably did hasten the demise of Amiga, but not by much. Amiga was going to die because of mismanagement and poor marketing and an outdated marketing system (e.g. back to bad management again)

The pirates definately gave power to Sony. Just look at the Playstation compared to Nintendo. They both had the ability to make good games. In fact Nintendos hardware was better. They were similarly priced, in fact Nintendo was often cheaper. The games were about the same price. They both had the same marketing model. e.g. Sell the hardware cheap and make money on the games. The only difference, Playstation games were easy to copy, and hey presto Playstation was the winner.

[FromWithin]

Originally Posted by Runey

The pirates definately gave power to Sony. Just look at the Playstation compared to Nintendo. They both had the ability to make good games. In fact Nintendos hardware was better. They were similarly priced, in fact Nintendo was often cheaper. The games were about the same price. They both had the same marketing model. e.g. Sell the hardware cheap and make money on the games. The only difference, Playstation games were easy to copy, and hey presto Playstation was the winner.

Talk not about that of which you think too quickly. There was no piracy on the Playstation when it came out and for many years after. CD writers cost about £3000 at the time of release, not to mention the fact that a blank CD-R cost almost as much as a packaged game. Piracy had nothing to do with the Playstation's success. The difference between Nintendo and Sony for that generation was that Nintendo was very arrogant due to its market position and squeezed money out of developers at every turn, from the development kit to the cartridge manufacturing, to even the storage of the cartridges prior to release. Sony on the other hand did everything they could to make it a success and were very developer friendly. Lots of games (and many Playstation-only) for the Playstation meant that lots of people bought one.

[synchro]

Originally Posted by Tolismlf

Did the pirates killed the Amiga before it's time?

Piracy did not kill the Amiga !!!! FACT !!!!

It actually sold them.....Commodore made little software for it ( if any at all ) they were relying on software houses to make the software. Hence people bought amigas as they could easily obtain copied games and Commodore stated this in an Imfamous interview that caused uproar. I think the statment was..

( Commodore are against Piracy but like it or not it does sell Amigas )

When Commodore went bust it was still thriving in the UK. But earlier as word of Liquidation set in Software houses moved to the PC due to how unsure the future of the Amiga was.
The Amiga died in its prime due to lack of expansion and interest from Commodore in what the Amiga user and Gamers wanted and they got to cocky with thier own success.

Lets look at what was killed by piracy ??

ZX81...BBC...etc nope that died through evolution
Speccy= Nope evolution again
C64= Same again
Snes and all older consoles = Nope..PS1's, PS2's and Xbox's got rid of those.

New machines evolved and they got forgotton in other words "EVOLUTION".
In fact can anyone tell me ANY MACHINE that stopped production due to piracy ???????
Machines like Jaguar...3D0....and a few of the rare ones WERE NOT popular because you COULDNT copy stuff so they vanished into the background.
( Gamecube lookout )

The Amiga Died through bad management and over pricing pure and simple. BUT!!!! It was the fall that caused the PC to rise to what it is today and now we get to play the Amiga again

Shit !!! didnt realise i wrote so much.................Sorry

We can combine the evolution & bad management in one with the Amiga, and why it failed. If it had had good management it would have evolved, and in the right way.

It didn't evolve quick enough, or enough and took too many risks - for example who's stupid idea was it to devolve instead of evolve and make the A600? All A1200's should have been fitted with some internal HD as standard, The CDTV was wrong time, the CD32 was too late.

But how many Amiga owners were willing back then to switch to Commodore's CD?? platforms, and actually have to BUY games !! ?

Who would have moaned about the extra £100 for every A1200 that came with a 20meg (or whatever) hard disk?

I think it's a safe bet to say that all of these thing were a contributing factor, as well as probably a few other things such as David Pleasance's beard....

[redblade]

with piracy you get to see ppl show of their talents in small intros which is why I support piracy =].

also it gets games to remote places. I prefer stuff like the DMS license it's free and non crippled and if you use it in a commercial environment / use it lots send the fullah the $$$. I'd do that now since i'm older and actually have some $$ to send the person even if it is only $10-$20USD

But No I don't believe that Piracy killed the Amiga, shit I reckon the pricks at commodore should of had Amiga's set up showing Demos from Demo groups, i'm pretty sure that would of helped it sell alot more.

[keropi]

yep, I agree that amiga died because of sh!t management AND hardware not capable enough... If they made back then a proper a1200 and 4000, perhaps they would be still alive... and by proper I mean with at least a HD, a built-in rtg (chip ram was previous decade technology) a couple more sound channels and the ability to also natively display normal VGA signals... not the crap u get with vgaonly...

[Galaxy]

Commodore killed the Amiga. If they had developed the platform instead of leaving the A500 unchanged for so long, they could have killed off both the PC and Macintosh in their infancy. Letting the competition catch up was a fatal mistake. They should have released the A1200 around 1989 or 1990. So too was the fact that they did not market the machine effectively - especially to the commercial sector, because the average computer user is far more likely to buy a machine similar to what they use at work.

Oh, and piracy would not have helped either (especially during the later years), but if there were enough machines out there and enough people buying the legit copies the machine would have survived. The PC and Playstation (as mentioned previously) are great examples of this.

[ant512]

In fact, I killed the Amiga.

[StarEye]

To be true, the Amiga I know of has to be the longest lasting computer in history. After all, it's been almost 20 years from it's original release, and we still have Amiga shops and hardware - and even a game coming out now and then.

But okay, the amiga is dead commercially. But I don't think piracy killed it. I think piracy is one of the main reason it's still alive today - even if it's just barely breathing.

[Dr. Dude]

is Amiga death? Really?
My Amiga still works

come on guys we all know Commodore screwed Amiga
piracy helped the Amiga to sell


And who says Amiga is death
Just look on this forum, Its Alive and kicking

[Tolismlf]

The major companies had started to leave the Amiga scene before the Commodore's fall. I remember Sierra leaving the Amiga in 1991. That's before Commodore's fall right? They said that the Amiga market was no-profit to them. Also EA games after a while left the Amiga and many other major companies. In 1994-95 the Amiga was almost dead. So don't be a lier and tell the truth. Commodore's fall is just an excuse..at least for the bunch of pirates. Why should i write a cool program/game for the Amiga when i know that the pirates are going to steal my work? Only some groups of fanatics supported this platform after 1996-97.. No really good software was released since 1996-97. That's the truth.

[Dr. Dude]

you got a few points
But if Commodore builded new chips and give a bit more suport to there users

We all would have a Amiga......oh wait.....we all have one here

[synchro]

Originally Posted by ant512

In fact, I killed the Amiga.

ROFL!!!!!

Tolismlf ...There is truth in what you say but sierra left because there was MORE profit on the PC rather than vice versa as did most houses. CD's were good protection it would cost me or you about £3000 for a writer at the time. They saw the PC expanding and the Amiga stood still that was all

BTW...1994 was sierra's last game for the amiga and alarm bells from commodore heard perfectly by that time!!!

I myself am NOT all for piracy dont get me wrong....But a little does tend to make companys make an effort to sell us good stuff and not a pile of Shite that we used to get in the retro days ( quicksilva ring any bells ) Fantastic boxes awsome covers and unplayable crap inside

CD32 was a good machine and all those new games written for it were AWSOME!!!.....Uhhhhh.....Hang on there werent any
And the Commodore CDROM for the 1200 etc was the fastest available.....Uhhhh...oh ye there wasnt one was there
I remember writing to mags BEGGING for this as did many others but the bearded guy didnt want to know

Most of the opinions above are nearer the truth. Commodore stood still thinking they had dominated the market whilst the PC was a boring 4 colour printing machine. But then the PC started to grow and still commodore sat around congratulating thierselves. BANG!!! Doom....BANG!! SVGA...BANG!! The mighty falls

AND STILL....After all that money we lost spending on our amigas they still expect to make money from us TODAY!!! and lay down rules on what we can and cannot do with our amiga's......Well guess what

In all honesty i thank the pirates for keeping the Amiga alive after its companys demise...IE Converting games to ADF and uploading them to the internet....UAE for creating the means to use them....Rippers for showing us how to get our Roms from our machines. Most of us are on this forum because of what they did.

My main reason for answering was to make sure the right people get the blame for the amigas fall and not Joe public which is usually most companies excuse

And to end.....The Amiga is alive and well...Secured and emulated in Retro history and always will be

Whoops Waffled again sorry

[Shatterhand]

I just want to add that here in Brazil, the PSX is the most popular console around, and I can asure you it's because of piracy. You just CAN'T find original PSX games here, but you can find pirated ones at every corner. Which is not the case of the, say, Gamecube. So, even while the Gamecube IS produced here in Brazil, the PSX sells a lot more because you can buy games for it for under US$ 5, while Gamecube games cost, in general, around US$ 50 .