Why did commodore stop including speech synthesis?

[Nightfox]

Hi all,

I'm almost done writing an AmigaOS 3.2 app (expect an exciting release in the next few weeks). One optional feature of the app is text to speech. This requires 2 system files to be present, translator.library and narrator.device. The problem is, Commodore stopped including these files after Workbench 2.0.4. There is a free and improved translator.library replacement on Aminet but this still requires narrator.device to work. So I am having to provide instructions to the user to copy these files over from the Workbench disk. It's a bit of inconvenience for the user but it works fine. My question is why did Commodore remove them after 2.0.4? Most AmigaOS 3.2 users nowadays did not upgrade from a previous 2.0.x installation so these files will be missing for them. I wish I could just include the files in the app's LHA file but that would be illegal.

[TCD]

From Wikipedia:

A utility called Say was included with the OS, which allowed text-to-speech synthesis with some control of voice and speech parameters. A demo was also included with AmigaBASIC programming examples. Speech synthesis was occasionally used in third-party programs, particularly educational software. For example, the word processors Prowrite and Excellence! could read out documents using the synthesizer. These speech synthesis components remained largely unchanged in later OS releases and Commodore eventually removed speech synthesis support from AmigaOS 2.1 onward because of licensing restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS#Audio

[Nightfox]

Oooh I see. That article is misleading though. It states Francesco Devitt developed an unofficial version. He sure did for translator.library but it still requires Commodore's narrator.device and as far as I'm aware there's no unofficial update to that device... is there?

[pandy71]

You can give a chance to:
https://aminet.net/package/util/sys/speak-handler
https://aminet.net/package/util/misc/SofTalk
Not tested by me.

[Minuous]

I think most users still have access to those Commodore files and have them installed, so there is no reason to omit speech support. Eg. my emulator requires OS3.9+BB2 or later but still has speech support.

[Thomas Richter]

Originally Posted by Nightfox

Oooh I see. That article is misleading though. It states Francesco Devitt developed an unofficial version. He sure did for translator.library but it still requires Commodore's narrator.device and as far as I'm aware there's no unofficial update to that device... is there?

The narrator.device is from a company called SoftVoice. In the light of development of 3.1.4, I contacted them, and and they were very surprised that CBM even included it in 2.0, and even more so, had the source code - which was not licensed to CBM at all. CBM only had a binary license, and they did not re-new it for 2.0. Thus, what is included in 2.0 is most likely there on error, and CBM noticed and did not ship it anymore.

No, there is no unofficial version. But Softvoice is still active, and there is a contact form on their web page. Maybe they can be convinced to release the binary (at least). Back then, inclusion in a commercial product (such as 3.1.4) was not possible. So I suggest you just ask, it would not hurt.

[saimon69]

The old os 7 Apple speech extension did sound similar - was developed by softVoice too?

[grond]

There are now a few open-source speech synthesis implementations. I wonder whether there is any hardware capable of running an AmigaOS-variant othern than UAE that would be powerful enough to handle one of them.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by saimon69

The old os 7 Apple speech extension did sound similar - was developed by softVoice too?

Kinda:

The initial Macintosh text-to-speech engine, MacinTalk (named by Denise Chandler), was used by Apple in the 1984 introduction of the Macintosh in which the computer announced itself to the world (and poked fun at the weight of an IBM computer). While it was incorporated into the Macintosh's operating system, it was not officially supported by Apple (though programming information was made available through an Apple Technical Note). MacinTalk was developed by Joseph Katz and Mark Barton who later founded SoftVoice, Inc. which currently markets TTS engines for Windows, Linux and embedded platforms. MacinTalk used direct access to the original Macintosh sound hardware and all attempts to license the source code by Apple to update it for newer Macs failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlainT...inal_MacinTalk

[Photon]

I think it was missing from the latest WB 1.3 disks too? (Or at least the Say utility*) Maybe time to reinstate it by community effort? It is useful, and a feature I mind Amiga by. <3

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Photon

I think it was missing from the latest WB 1.3 disks too?

1.3.3 rev 34.34 still has it. Was there a later version?

[thebajaguy]

I remember a 1.3.4 update back in the day while at GVP preparing OS loads for the hard cards. There apparently was one with that version, but the details are thin what it had fixed:

http://wiki.classicamiga.com/History...h_and_Amiga_OS

[TCD]

On the Amiga Forever DVD there is 'amiga-os-134-workbench.adf' and the extras disk, but it is just 1.3.3 rev 34.34. Maybe somebody who has a genuine 1.3.4 disk set can confirm if the say utility was dropped.

[mfilos]

I use the Say application from WB 2.05 (including the translator.library and narrator.device from that disk as well).
Sadly the newest Say (from WB 38.12) with the newest options despite working great, under my OS3.2.2.1 and RTG is showing fully black background in it's window so it's not so usable

[Snoopy1234]

Originally Posted by TCD

On the Amiga Forever DVD there is 'amiga-os-134-workbench.adf' and the extras disk, but it is just 1.3.3 rev 34.34. Maybe somebody who has a genuine 1.3.4 disk set can confirm if the say utility was dropped.

Amiga Forever OS 1.3.5 HDF has "Say" but also is Workbench 34.34

In the latest release of Amiga Forever there isn't a 1.3.4 Workbench adf but a 1.3.3 one. Maybe dropped 1.3.4 due to contention?

The Alpha release of Workbench 1.4 from Commodore has "Say"; so I'd think if there is a non-Cloanto Workbench 1.3.4 it would also have it.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Snoopy1234

In the latest release of Amiga Forever there isn't a 1.3.4 Workbench adf but a 1.3.3 one. Maybe dropped 1.3.4 due to contention?

The disk is 1.3.3, but as you can see it is labelled as '134':

on the Amiga Forever 10 Plus DVD.

[Snoopy1234]

Originally Posted by TCD

The disk is 1.3.3, but as you can see it is labelled as '134':

on the Amiga Forever 10 Plus DVD.

From what I've read the Amiga Forever Workbench 1.3.4 has been modified by Cloanto including the startup-sequence and file timestamps.

[Minuous]

Yeah, it is another one of Cloanto's hacks where they just randomly downgrade and/or remove components, like they did for "Amiga OS3.X". :-(

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Yeah, it is another one of Cloanto's hacks where they just randomly downgrade and/or remove components, like they did for "Amiga OS3.X". :-(

How exactly 3.* was downgraded? Would you say it was on 2.9, 2.8 level then?

[Minuous]

@pixie:

See here:

https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-107