Trackdisk and Diskspare

[exoticaga]

Is there a known way to convert a diskspare disk image that has 12 blockspertrack back to a trackdisk DD image.

The original disk (have not got now) was OFS (probably) with 11 blockspertrack, that i converted to 12 blockpertrack via diskspare.device.

Would not the diskspare image have blank spaces, which there seem to be some looking at it in hex. If i had the original disk still i wouldn't have to do this. But if have original disk i could compare and take away the exact extra spaces in the image. Its the knowing what to delete and what not to delete.

Have found no amiga tools that can work on a diskspare image and convert back to 11 blockspertrack. I can mount the diskspare image into another device, Rad, FF0 for example. Then i'm still needing a lowlevel tool to understand the diskspare floppy disk stucture to convert it to 11 blockspertrack. Every tool i find knows only 11 blockspertrack amiga disk.

What is the correct way to go about this. Or is there no way back once converted to diskspare images with 12 blockspertrack ?

Or is there a diskspare to trackdisk converter to undo the image again back to a normal trackdisk ?

[thomas]

Why don't you simply copy all files from the diskspare floppy to a normal floppy ? There is no magic about the Amiga file system. And as far as I know diskspare does not come with its own file system, so the disk is still formatted with OFS or FFS.

[musashi5150]

I've never seen a diskspare disk that used raw sector access so it shouldn't really matter about the disk geometry. Couldn't you just mount it and copy the files onto your standard ADOS disk? Of course they probably won't fit because diskspare has more capacity (which is the whole point). Of course if the diskspare image didn't use the full capacity then all the files will fit.

It's not going to be possible to do a conversion as there will be too much data.

If you were not using files and accessing the sectors directly then you could be out of luck.

[exoticaga]

True i can easily get the files, no problem unpacking the packdev image (of dispare disk) and the lzx container for it.

Just was hoping to reverse the procedure i had done long ago for an original disk again. Which i think would be of benefit to the community. Having a self made floppy like you suggest is not original but will work.

Thomas diskspare as i understand has a patched trackdisk driver, diskspare.device which will only work reading and writing 12 or 24 blockspertrack (BPT). It's how can i make 12 BPT back to 11 to get back original disk image i was asking for.

What tool do you have in mind, that can convert 12 BPT back to 11 ?

[thomas]

What tool do you have in mind, that can convert 12 BPT back to 11 ?

There is no such tool if it doesn't come with diskspare. I didn't even know that there is a tool to convert from 11 to 12 BPT. This change has high impact on the file system structure, especially with OFS / FFS. The tool would have to validate and correct all file pointers and the like.

Usually if you want to copy content from one format to another, you have to format the destination disk and then copy the files, just as I suggested.

Also if you did a single write access to the converted disk, there is no way back IMHO.

[exoticaga]

Its good i only did a conversion in that crappy diskpare format on 21 superdisks. I have a memory it wasn't right and i'm sure i did redo them, not sure what with. And no one yet (google and more) seems to have found a sollution, how to image them. Or there would be superdisks from #50, 52, 54 ,56 etc about.

I have one cd that i think they could be on but isn't readable by anything yet. I know it wasn't finalized (makecd) so far nothing will finalize it amiga, pc or other os i have tried. And is seen by one software with audio and data tracks (sounds right), not that is the problem, for not being readable or recoverable so far.

Maybe someone could use powercopy to image one or more super disk/s to an image. That is #50 and above.

If someone can image aui disks all, they will be very welcome at Magix ftp in Coverdisks\Amiga User International\ <> If anyone has any of the #-ds0.dsq in an original image would be nice (an original image). Then i could possibly correct the ones i have uploaded to adf images for all.

[mark_k]

Originally Posted by exoticaga

If someone can image aui disks all, they will be very welcome at Magix ftp in Coverdisks\Amiga User International\ <> If anyone has any of the #-ds0.dsq in an original image would be nice (an original image). Then i could possibly correct the ones i have uploaded to adf images for all. :)

Okay, feel free to flame me here... but I don't really see what the problem is?

Creating image files from DiskSpare-format disks is quite simple, as is creating real DiskSpare-format copies from image files. (For double-density disks, 80-track DiskSpare image files are 983040 bytes long. 82-track image files are 1007616 bytes.)

For creating the image files, you could use PackDev (but that doesn't output plain disk image files). Or use something like Dev-Handler on Aminet. After mounting DS0: or whatever you call your DiskSpare drive, you would use a command like
Copy DEV:DS0 imagefile.bin
to create an image file. For writing the image file back to a floppy disk, you would first need to format it in DiskSpare format, then
Copy imagefile.bin DEV:DS0

Another approach would be to use MFMWarp to create MFM-level image files from original DiskSpare disks.

-- M

[exoticaga]

The images are here have a play with them, after booting, the superdisk #2 are never seen. The superdisk number two are the ones with extension (-ds0.dsq). They are here at the EAB File Server.
/Magazine Cover Disks and CDs/Disks/Amiga User International/

The disks can be unpacked manualy via rad etc, then files copied to into an adf image. But that has just lost the whole originality of the disk, and the reason for trusting diskspare in the first place - a bad choice. As diskspare cannot put them back onto disk or into .adf image format. Thankfully near all other disks i did then are in a trackdisk .image format and .dms.

Note: i haven't tried new WinUAE abilty to convert an archive to adf image, maybe that will be the way. Though i doubt this very much as the disk #2s are of 12bpt not standard 11bpt which is what the trackdisk.device needs to use the disk.

Note2: I'm also not really bothered about this. Just peeved that diskspare turned out to be unworkable at converting back a disk to a useable floppy disk, like the original disk was useable.

[mark_k]

Originally Posted by exoticaga

Note2: I'm also not really bothered about this. Just peeved that diskspare turned out to be unworkable at converting back a disk to a useable floppy disk, like the original disk was useable.

DiskSpare is just a floppy device driver, like trackdisk.device. You have to use other programs to create and write back disk image files from DiskSpare disks.

You can use Dev-Handler as I mentioned to write images of DiskSpare-format disks to real floppy disks. (Also any disk-imaging program that is not hard-coded to only use trackdisk.device should work.)

You need to format a blank floppy in DiskSpare format before writing the image file back to it.

It's also possible to use PackDev to write images of DiskSpare disks back to DiskSpare-format floppies. The advantage of that is you don't need to format the destination disk first; PackDev can do that as it writes the image back to disk (use the ETDF option). But as noted, PackDev uses its own file format which not many other programs know how to handle.

Update: It looks like DevBlocks on Aminet can be used to create and write back images of any disk/device, including DiskSpare disks, without needing to (re)format the destination disk first.

Also YADI on Aminet seems to be capable of reading/writing any size of disk image.

[exoticaga]

Examples above all output to either adf, hardfile or other type of file.

What i meant by the above was.

Original floppy disk > Archived to diskspare* image > Later Writen back to a floppy df0: using orignal amiga hardware computer.

*12 blocks per track
(11 is the maximum that native amiga trackdisk supports i read.)


...

Using WinUAE and need a working emulated image file sollution look at here and here. Toni Willen has built in support within WinUAE emaulation for archives to .adf.

You can test further and verify with the disks linked above. Maybe try all this on original amiga hardware, that is the images to df0: for instance.

...

[mark_k]

Originally Posted by exoticaga

Examples above all output to either adf, hardfile or other type of file.

No, all the programs I mentioned above do allow disk image files to be written back to floppy disks on a real Amiga.

Maybe you're a bit confused about trackdisk.device?

For reading and writing DiskSpare-format disks, trackdisk.device has nothing to do with it. Trackdisk doesn't understand the DiskSpare format, so it can't read or write DiskSpare-format tracks.

In order to read or write DiskSpare-format disks, the image-reading/writing program issues commands to diskspare.device. So you need to have installed the DiskSpare package on your Amiga first.

Originally Posted by exoticaga

What i meant by the above was.

Original floppy disk > Archived to diskspare* image > Later Writen back to a floppy df0: using orignal amiga hardware computer.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about!

Take GetDevBlocks/PutDevBlocks for example. Let's say you want to read a DiskSpare-format disk into an image file. I'll assume it's formatted with 80 tracks here. First mount DS0: or whatever you call your DiskSpare mount file. Then put the disk in the drive and use a command like:

GetDevBlocks DS0 0 0 0 1920 myimage.bin

To write that image file back to another floppy disk, put the destination disk in the drive and use:

PutDevBlocks DS0 0 0 0 1920 myimage.bin FORMAT

(The FORMAT option is needed when the destination floppy disk is not already DiskSpare-formatted.)

If you want to use YADI instead, create a disk image using:

yadi r myimage.bin DS0:

and write it back using:

yadi w myimage.bin DS0:

Some DiskSpare disks are formatted with 82 tracks. For reading and writing image files for both 80- and 82-track disks it's probably not necessary to use two separate mount files. You can use one mount-file for 82-track disks, and use different commands to read/write them, i.e.

GetDevBlocks DS0 0 0 0 1920 myimage.bin

for 80-track disks or

GetDevBlocks DS0 0 0 0 1968 myimage.bin

for 82-track disks.

[exoticaga]

Have you tried the above on the disks that i mentioned on a real amiga. And does the 2nd disk unpack correctly. I think option 3 has all its files on disk two for disk #52 or was that #50 (the first lower numbered# ds0-dsq disk). Try to unpack disk 2 files to an empty floppy disk/s.

If GetDevBlocks or Yadi works better then, that is the way to do it.

At least through dev of the uaeunp beta that Toni is working on now. Everyone can have now either working adf's or real floppy disks of them (if your tests for real disks is ok). Whew i'm glad i didn't do to many in diskspare. And at least if you test it and it works others can use it also without fear. Probably better options now than to use diskspare.device i think.

Now if aminet had a good search engine, maybe i would have found the right sollution earlier. I gave up on it as a joke, and still don't care much, as i wasted enough time on it. Maube more time away from it might rekindle my interest and make adf's of them. Or maybe someone else will make perfect unmolested pristine adfs of them and upload them to the ftp.