Defender of the Crown [CDTV] - ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" vs ".BIN & .CUE"

[DamienD]

Hi Toni,

Last night I was playing around with Defender Of The Crown [CDTV] and came across a weird issue.

If I use the verified TOSEC dump found here, which is an ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" image; on the title screen the start of the audio track gets skipped.

I also have a ".BIN & .CUE" image of this game. Tried this and it plays perfectly

To make things even stranger, if I then create a ".BIN & .CUE" image out of the ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" files by doing the following, all is ok:

• Mount the ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" image using Daemon Tools.
• Use ImgBurn to create a new ".BIN & .CUE" image.

I wonder why this is?

[ransom1122]

I'm assuming the cue files information is all correct from the iso/wav/cue?

[DamienD]

Yes man

...and as mentioned, I then made a ".BIN & .CUE" image out of the ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" files and everything then works perfectly.

.ISO & .WAV & .CUE:

CATALOG 0000000000000
FILE "Defender of the Crown (1991)(CDTV Publishing)(Track 1 of 2)[!].iso" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2048
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "Defender of the Crown (1991)(CDTV Publishing)(Track 2 of 2)[!].wav" WAVE
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

.BIN & .CUE:

FILE "Defender of the Crown (1991)(CDTV Publishing).bin" BINARY
  TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    PREGAP 00:02:00
    INDEX 01 00:56:00

[Toni Wilen]

Not enough information (=what WinUAE sees in the CD = CUE TOC part of the log)

TOSEC ISO version works fine here.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

TOSEC ISO version works fine here.

Interesting; not sure why it doesn't skip the first 2-3 seconds of audio for you when using the .ISO.

Tested using a Quickstart CDTV also.

Anyway, logs attached.

[Toni Wilen]

I read your post as whole track getting skipped.. It is probably related to PREGAP or something like that.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I read your post as whole track getting skipped.. It is probably related to PREGAP or something like that.

Maybe, but the pregap is also in the .CUE file from the ".BIN & .CUE" image.

Also as mentioned, I then made a ".BIN & .CUE" image out of the ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" files and everything then works perfectly i.e. the first 2-3 seconds of audio isn't skipped while you see the title screen.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Yes man

...and as mentioned, I then made a ".BIN & .CUE" image out of the ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" files and everything then works perfectly.

My first time playing this version, I didn't realize it was a little more different than the floppies. With the additions they removed my ability to win joust every time, haha. Until I find the sweet spot with this. I wonder if they fixed the bug where you're "Army" will 0 when you leave it in a particular way. Hmm.. Anyway, yep, confirmed.

Edit 1: It would be cool if there's a way to update the WHDLoad install to include the audio track..and have sound with CDTV version.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

With the additions they removed my ability to win joust every time, haha. Until I find the sweet spot with this.

Hahaha, I experienced the sane thing

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Hahaha, I experienced the sane thing

I found the sweet slot. Neeeehaaaahahhaha!! You experienced sanity while playing the game?? Do tell, muhhaha--haha--haha.

I attempted a few ways to include the audio...but, everyone remains a mime. Including the horses. For now, CDTV only. Without the audio is going through everything a lot quicker, which can be very cool for "I'm going to play a quick game."

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

I attempted a few ways to include the audio...but, everyone remains a mime. Including the horses. For now, CDTV only. Without the audio is going through everything a lot quicker, which can be very cool for "I'm going to play a quick game."

You can't get audio? Besides the issue I mentioned i.e. 2-3 seconds of audio track skipped when using the .ISO image; all is fine here when running a standard CDTV config.

Do try Defender Of The Crown II also, it's quite cool but a lot easier than the original to finish

[AC/DC HACKER!]

I typed it, but I'll clarify.. CDTV audio is functioning well. It's nice to be able to skip sections with video controls on Keyboard as well. I agreed with you with your findings. Then I commented it would be great to have audio also for the WHDLoad CDTV install. It's totally silent because the CDDA isn't noticed...which I tried to "trick" it a but since WHDLoad is set to emulate A1200..the CDTV stuff is missing.

Anyway, yes..CDTV does well when you recreate a single .CUE/.BIN. All other audio starts correctly. Only Defender intro is affected.

I like most of the additions to DotC2, but some...not as much. But I haven't explored everything yet, such as the Spy. Back in the days, I realllllllly wanted that "health progress bar" for sword fights. But like fighting real people, *eyes look away* if you do..haha, you don't get to rely on that.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

I agreed with you with your findings.

<snip>

Anyway, yes..CDTV does well when you recreate a single .CUE/.BIN.

Yes, this is the whole point of the thread I created...

Why does a ".BIN & .CUE" image work perfectly in WinUAE but the official TOSEC dump ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" image skip the first 2-3 seconds of audio when the title screen is shown?

I mean, I'm not bothered now as I've worked out a solution i.e. convert to / use a ".BIN & .CUE" image; but thought it best to mention to Toni in case it's an issue with how WinUAE handles different image formats.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

I read your post as whole track getting skipped.. It is probably related to PREGAP or something like that.

Remove the pregap from the cue, and the music starts immediately, but still skips the first 1-2 seconds of the track.

Seems like it skips that much audio of every portion of the track it plays throughout the entire game.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Yes, this is the whole point of the thread I created...

Why does a ".BIN & .CUE" image work perfectly in WinUAE but the official TOSEC dump ".ISO & .WAV & .CUE" image skip the first 2-3 seconds of audio when the title screen is shown?

I mean, I'm not bothered now as I've worked out a solution i.e. convert to / use a ".BIN & .CUE" image; but thought it best to mention to Toni in case it's an issue with how WinUAE handles different image formats.

Right, I was staying on topic while also checking into the other. Logically, the files are separated with the cue text giving pointers. When in BIN...they are all together in 1 file. Which then removes the separation?? I also removed the gap, and checked it. (Bin/Cue). There might be something in the way the Data track in made from MakeCD and ImgBurn. Hmm.. I would have been bugged about it also, until the work-around was found. A bug in WinUAE? Or...just a difference in MakeCD/ImgBurn?

You'll notice also the 00:56:00 isn't included in the audio Index of the split files. If you add it..notice audio doesn't play.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

Huh, I'll check into T-Zero as it has music dependent stuff happening but isn't CDTV..but since I don't like techno music I don't listen that closely. Anyway.. I'm going to play a round a little more...thanksssssss (laughing), DamienD, now I'm still curious.

T-Zer0 is fine... mind you, I use a ".BIN & .CUE" image

...there was a totally different issue previously; which I reported and Toni fixed

See this old thread: T-zer0 - 1st audio track starts too early [Image Mounter vs Daemon Tools].

[Toni Wilen]

Pregap was added twice, first it was used to calculate correct TOC track start and then it was added again which made first 2 seconds (length of pregap) of audio silent. Only happened if previous track was in different file than current track and there was pregap between them (= cue+iso+wav and starting playing first audio track. Usually audio track has some silence at the beginning which hides this bug)

[Ian]

Excellent. Thanks for spotting it Toni.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by DamienD

T-Zer0 is fine... mind you, I use a ".BIN & .CUE" image

...there was a totally different issue previously; which I reported and Toni fixed

See this old thread: T-zer0 - 1st audio track starts too early [Image Mounter vs Daemon Tools].

Whoops...I should have made that more clear. I wasn't thinking there was something wrong with it.. I only meant I was going to check that it plays well at the start. Techno/house usually doesn't seem to have a "good start" anytime I've listened to any (I don't listen to that stuff, in games). Pardon confusion.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

[...] Pregap - Only happened if previous track was in different file than current track and there was pregap between them (= cue+iso+wav and starting playing first audio track. Usually audio track has some silence at the beginning which hides this bug)[...]

Ahhh...sometimes it's nice to have validation of what you know. Yaaay, Toni!