Gloom total conversions

[earok]

Apologies, going to give up on getting Alien Trilogy out the door today.

Although I was fairly happy with the accuracy with which I was porting the level, it's painfully slow on stock CD32 settings, which is the only platform I was aiming for (I was using lots of transparency effects, for faking small boxes, pipes, columns etc).

Some time in the future I'll spend some time redoing it to reduce transparencies to an absolute bare minimum, but in the mean time I'll simply finish off the compilation I was doing and get that released. Nitta and Leon's work is far better than mine would have been anyway

[Leon]

Thank you very much Nitta for your mod looks fantastic. I spent three hours today, and unfortunately I was not able to finish the game without cheating.
The main reason was that you used too much transparent walls and the game often crashed when I was too close to the gates, windows, or I had a collision with the wagon.
Wagon can be easily fix when you stretch to 64pix (height) and eliminate a transparency. I had the same problem with Deathmask and I had to do the same to avoid all crashes.

Next problem I noticed on the map1_3, there was no event to open the exit door (See this photo).
Also game crashed when I had a collision with flying transparent objects (Volcano Level3).
I coudn't finish this level when I use the ladder as a teleport because I started from beginning.
I coudn't find the exit. (See this photo). Yellow bars (next to weapons) shows the moment when the game crashed (pic 1,3,5,7).
You did a really good job. What a pity that we can not use the transparent walls in Gloom when we want. All levels would look much better.

[nittamituaki]

Wooow thank you so much for many testing,Leon!!!

About map1_3:
Yes,you are correct, it's sure. Exactly event10's line is invisible!!!
I don't know why the hell is going. Perhaps it caused when I fixed some bugs about walls.
But event-line of event10 is still remaining,so it is POSSIBLE to finish this level.
Please grab "ES cells" (hidden in somewhere) after you defeat an anthead in the school. The door would open!

About the ladder of Volcano3rd:
First, I am so glad that you have already enjoyed this tough scene.
Don't be angry, this is a trap ladder which let you restart that level.
True ladder is another one (find it!).
This trap ladder also help you when you fail to close toget the true doorladder.

Many crashes else and "yellow bar" crashes:
Sorry, at least I have not come across "yellow bar" crash.
I have already tested all levels on my CD32+FDD and WinUAE at 020 setting.
In other words,I have not tested "1px*1px FULL screen mode".
Just I have assumed that 030 or higher user would be able to play with no problem.
I am shocked to hear that "1px*1px FULL screen mode" is unplayable even if your system is so hi spec.
Please tell me your setting(or spec) when you tested.
And, please tell me whether you can avoid these crash if you change to smaller screen.

[Leon]

I tested the game on WinUAE (020 + AGA). Transparent walls crashed when you play on full screen (1x1). On a small window (1x1) is ok.
I think that the main problem is the engine (gloom2), probably authors of Gloom did not test game in full screen (1x1) for long because did not have
enough fast hardware in those days.

[Tsak]

Nitta - Leon : Amazing work guys!!!!
Your mods are amongst the finest amiga gaming examples I've seen lately!
I'd 100% recommend others to try them out!

Leon: Excellent, solid work on both 8bitKiller and DeathMask3D! Maps, enemy placement, challenge, presentation and packaging are all top quality!
My only note here is that I found very confusing both in 8bitKiller and DeathMask3D the complete lack of visible switches to open locked doors. This meant that many times I didn't have a clue how to progress because it wasn't clear what wall or surface I had to touch to open the locked doors, which often resulted in me wandering aimlessly around, trying to figure out what to do next or what I had missed...

Nitta: The prize for originality and proof of concept goes to you! I love your themes, usage of classic rpg sprites and decor! All your mods have a very unique atmosphere and are excellent experiments on how to create something completely different from your standard Gloom clone. I also love your attempt to create some sort of narrative and story in those. This stands especially true for your latest "Did it came from the desert" mod.
I've seen you've used the Gloom engine in loads of different creative ways to achieve such a result: Interacting NPCs? Check! Surprising boss appearances? Check! Interaction with items? Check! Creative use of wall types and other decorations? Check!
As I continue playing I'm finding more and more stuff that feel fresh and unique. Well done!

On the downside:
-Biggest problem I encountered are the crashes. In Jecht and Speccio battles it happens pretty soon when you are either in fullscreen or the next lower resolution. At the Desert mod it also happened a couple of times (though I could not sort out where and why).
-There are some extra bugs here and there. F.e. in town stage, I accidentally stepped inside a locked house through a wall, finding my self trapped there. Also because of the ultra thin walls (I guess), some times you could see through them when you stood in certain locations (either too close or further away at specific angles).
-I have to note that difficulty curve was steep and felt a bit unballanced with Desert. The first stage alone is very difficult and you don't even have a chance to familiarise yourself with the surroundings when you start off.
-Story telling and msgs contain loads of "strange english" indeed. If you need any help, drop me a PM and I could see to aid you a bit with this if you'd like.

Over and all (and despite the minor problems) I'm really impressed!
It shows that using old engines to build something fresh is a cool alternative for amiga game making!
You guys should seriously think to team up!
There is -indeed- loads of potencial here!

[Gzegzolka]

Cool to see Gloom has second live with Yours mods

[nittamituaki]

@Leon
Today I beat "Death Mask 3D". I could spend wonderful time.
Thank you very much.

@Tsak
Hi. Nice to meet you!
I am glad to see your post.

About serious bug (crashes):
Please see #35,36. I'm sorry that we cannot enjoy at "1px:1px full screen".
I added about this at my information page(my website).

About "stepped inside a locked house through a wall":
I noticed these serious bug in October.


I have assumed that I have already fixed all corners of houses/cottages.
So I am shocked to hear that you noticed.
Please tell me where did you come across that bug.
I have to fix and update archive data as fast as possible.
This bug would drain player's motivation.

About "strange English":
My apologize. Is it possible to post at this thread?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76301
Yellow messages between levels sequence are supplied from misc/script.
This file has already edited by another native English speaker,Earok.
(But, sorry Earok, I couldn't edit some sentences at this time
because " , " becomes "L". in game. )
But my wrong English is still remaining at picture files (briefing,etc).
I am begging help to an unspecified people at that thread.
Thank you very much.

[Tsak]

@Nitta: about the corners bug do the following: go outside any house and try to slide along the walls. There are some invisible barriers there that do not let you slide the wall (houses at the far-far left of the map -as you enter- are good candidates). Once you find such a barrier do this: Keep sidestep pressd then press up+left at the same time (or up and right, depending on where you are facing) as if as if you're trying to push against the invisible barrier and wall. If you are at correct angle you'll enter the house (you may need to try this a bit to achieve it). This also happens at corners when you are inside a house. I've never-ever encountered such a bug in original gloom. But then again, never in original gloom there are rooms with paper thin walls. Perhaps you could correct this by making walls thicker (but that would mean to remake the town level...)?

Likewise, dissapearing walls are also irritating. Just do a quick walk inside the town and you'll spot this: In some spots, as you pass by you'll be able to see inside the houses as if walls were not there... I also encountered this bug in Death Mask3D at the start of level 6 btw.

Yesterday I played the desert mod in non fullscreen resolution (but 1x1). Guess what: crash bug happened again! Both times this happened at the town level, so I haven't really managed to progress any further yet...
Same EXACT crash happened to me at level 7 (or 8 maybe? - it was the huge level anyway) of Death mask 3d... In all cases the bug happened when I was frenzied pressing fire to kill incoming enemies. It had nothing to do with walls or transparent objects....
Perhaps those crashes are totally unrelated to the resolution?

[nittamituaki]

Hi, Tsak.
About bugs near the invisible barriers:
I didn't notice until you tell me. It is because I usually don't sidestep at UAE. (I use mega drive pad for CD32+FDD because direction key(pad) is really good response.)
At this time all I can say is "Please don't sidestep near invisible barriers!".
Yes I know some people would think "What a crap!" after they see this message.
So I will test another method for invisible barriers.
I think that all my invisible barriers are facing inward.
If they are facing outward, we might be able to avoid this bug.

About inside house wall bugs:
Sorry I couldn't come across that bugs even I used sidesteps.(at this point.)

some times you could see through them when you stood in certain locations
(from your previous post)

You mean #1 situation of this screenshots, don't you?

About dissapearing walls:
You mean #2 situation of this screenshots, don't you?
I am really sorry, we don't know how to avoid these glitches.
At this point, all I can say is:
It causes #1 glitches when we placed many objects(furnitures).
It causes #2 glitches when we made complex designed map with many walls.
These glitches have already occurred in my next Total Conversion.

Guess what: crash bug happened again!

Oh, I am sad to hear that. Please enjoy at 5th screen or smaller.(7th=FULL screen)
Surely the game crashed when I peeped a bed room at 6th screen (1*1px).
The game didn't crash at 5th screen.
This test is at WinUAE "fastest possible" setting.

Originally Posted by Tsak

at level 7 (or 8 maybe? - it was the huge level anyway) of Death mask 3d... In all cases the bug happened when I was frenzied pressing fire to kill incoming enemies. It had nothing to do with walls or transparent objects....
Perhaps those crashes are totally unrelated to the resolution?

Was it 10th level of Death Mask 3D?
Ah I know this crash. This issue occurs when many many enemies are active at the same time.
This issue also occurs at E5L4(Episode5 Level4) of Gloom3.
(I also uploaded ADF version of Gloom3 with Gaz's permission.)
I don't know why Leon put a savepoint before Level 10,
anyway my description (at my webpage) would recommend CD32 user to restart from Level 8 or Level 9.

I recognized that gloom2 engine causes those crashes due to "busy" state.
At this point, the best solution is to use classic "gloom" program
when we surely want to restart from those tough levels.

But, in my opinion, we have to avoid those crashes on real Amiga or CD32 console as possible as we can.
It is because I think these crashes make caps of the motherboard waste.
Yesterday I replaced 2 caps (10v,1000u),however,
believe me please, my previous replacement was early February 2014 !!
(In 2014, I used my CD32 for many testing ADF version of Gloom mods,
I came across "red-flash" crashes due to RAM shortage... again and again.)

[Tsak]

About invisible barriers: It happens the other way around. You can get out the same way you got in.

About dissapearing walls: yes, it's those situations.
Are you 100% sure that the problems happens because of large number of objects/walls used?
Basically it's easy to check if your hypothesis stands true:
#1 glitch: quick test edit the map and erase some of the objects. Does it happen again?
#2 glitch: do the same here with walls

Btw latest crash occured when I was in 5th screen actually. So perhaps it's the 1x1 resolution and not screen size?

Whatever the case, I know by heart that such bugs never occured in original gloom deluxe maps -but maybe I'm mistaken. If not, this means that something is being done incorrectly in those new mods. For sure, similar bugs appear in Gloom 3 (dissapearing walls f.e.). So if you're using the Gloom 3 engine to do your mods, perhaps there's something modified in there that causes those problems?

[nittamituaki]

@Tsak
I fixed "invisible barriers" bugs.(At this time, only E1L3.)
Solution was to make them facing outward.
I uploaded it at "Did it come from the desert?" thread.
Walkthrough videos also have been uploaded.
If E1L1 has been boring you (perhaps!), see "Easy solution" video.
I guess you have already noticed these paths ,though...

Unfortunately I cannot fix "inside house wall" bugs anymore.
Yes, those paper thin walls cause these strange bugs.
It mean that I have to create these maps again.
It was my serious mistake of this mod.
I never make those "paper thin walls" houses in future.

Are you 100% sure that the problems happens because of large number of objects/walls used?

I cannot answer as "Yes, 100% sure!".

#1 glitch: quick test edit the map and erase some of the objects. Does it happen again?

I tested again and again, however, it happens.
If I could fix one point, then another wall causes this bug.

perhaps there's something modified in there that causes those problems?

No, we(Leon and me) use Gloom Deluxe engine.

[Retro1234]

Can have stairs in Gloom?

[Tsak]

@Boo Boo
You can place a "stairs" or "ladder" gfx which will transfer you to a new location (room or level) when you touch it like a normal teleporter would. Of course, Gloom, being a Wolfenstein3d clone has only flat maps, unlike Alien Breed 3d I & II (or Doom f.e.).

[HardStep]

Incredible work, guys.
One of the top 10 Amiga games and finally we are seeing it's true (modding) potential

[Leon]

I'm glad that you like our mods.
When I created levels for the "Combat Game" I had no idea how to create interesting maps for "2 Player Game".
These maps are very tiny so slightly modified them by adding invisible switches to prevent easy finish.
CLUE: To complete all levels the player must to collect some important items.

These levels that have a lot of transparent walls (especially wooden boxes 32x32) may freeze the game for example a large level 9.
I can be easily fix by adding 2nd box on top the first one (eliminating transparency).

Unfortunately, I can not eliminate dissapearing walls, the only way is to draw level from the beginning.
Even then after when I add new events and objects can be the same.
I think the reason is using different sizes of textures (16,32,64) while building one large level
or even when we draw wall too close next one (secret door behind wall).

To improve the speed of Gloom on the real Amiga is worth to download Alternative c2p.

[s2325]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hello Amigans!

I created a new maps for the 8Bit Killer game.
- 7 maps for combat game,
- 10 maps for 2 player game (7 modified from combat game).

You can download both versions here: 8bitkillerADF and 8bitkillerLHA.

Enjoy!

http://www.exec.pl/pic/art/gloom/8bitkiller.gif

[ Show youtube player ]

[s2325]

Just remove or add pair of legs to your ants

[hipoonios]

Have you made the graphics by yourself? If so, just rename the game and you should be ok.

BTW, Another Amiga friend (Ironclaw) was working on a cool Super Metroid (SNES GFX) remake which he is doing in Blitz, but he won't continue on it now or even release a demo after hearing what happened to me

I will try your game one day! Looks very good (better than the original).

[nittamituaki]

@s2325

No way! Nice joke!

@hipoonios

BTW I took over 1 week for ant's sprite(8 directions x 6 patterns).
They were not ripped from Mega Drive version's sprites.
I think there are 2 types,"inspired" and "derivative works".
At least I won't upload "Spekkio" and "Jecht" at aminet.
I would have planned fixing some walls bugs for both of them.
(The same wall bugs Tsak told me.)

To tell the another truth,
I have planned "Batman vs Joker(Heath Ledger version)" mini mod...Ha ha ha...

Anyway I will keep my work for my 2nd big title (There would not be copyright problem,
however, the difficulty would be for "Brutal Doom" nightmare mode players
as I wrote at the top page of my website.)

PS.
Ironclaw would release his own game? I heard for the first time.
Perhaps it would no problem if it is just a "inspired" game.

[earok]

Batman sounds fantastic - have you ever played Batman Doom? Easily the greatest Doom modification ever, I was actually thinking about looking at porting some of it to Gloom.