Hard drive, partitions, buffer questions.

fc.studio · 30 August 2007, 19:27

Please consider A1200 with K.S. 3.0 and standard FFS:

1- I read I can install an hard drive larger than 4 GB and then prepare it to use MAX 4 GB by HDToolBox. HDToolBox uses dimensionable graphic bars to create partitions. Do I have to place the partition bars within the first 4 GB (that is 4 GB limit is always from the first cylinder)?

2- Which is the max sharp/exact cylinder number to reach the 4 GB limit?
On using the partition bar we can move it for several pixels (and every pixel is several MBytes) and HDToolBox continues to display 4,0 GB.

3- Do partitions have to be max 2 GB each? I read this somewhere in this forum. At the moment I use a 2,7 GB partition (block dim=512). What could happen?

4. Is there a formula to give each partition an optimal buffer size?

5. Is it possible to verfy data on hard drive with HDToolBox (OS3.9) installed on it? On selecting SCSI Interface I have "Install disk" and "Partition disk" options only.

Thanks and sorry for my bad English.

Jope · 30 August 2007, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fc.studio

Please consider A1200 with K.S. 3.0 and standard FFS:

1- I read I can install an hard drive larger than 4 GB and then prepare it to use MAX 4 GB by HDToolBox. HDToolBox uses dimensionable graphic bars to create partitions. Do I have to place the partition bars within the first 4 GB (that is 4 GB limit is always from the first cylinder)?

Use the numbers (just hit enter after you have entered the number and the screen updates).

The maxcyl must be so that the partition is under 4GB.

Quote:

2- Which is the max sharp/exact cylinder number to reach the 4 GB limit?
On using the partition bar we can move it for several pixels (and every pixel is several MBytes) and HDToolBox continues to display 4,0 GB.

Use the numbers. The value differs from drive to drive.

Quote:

3- Do partitions have to be max 2 GB each? I read this somewhere in this forum. At the moment I use a 2,7 GB partition (block dim=512). What could happen?

If you use FFS, 2GB is the maximum size. SFS will allow you to use up to the addressable 4GB. PFS3DS will allow you to use larger disks / partitions without patching the scsi.device.

Quote:

4. Is there a formula to give each partition an optimal buffer size?

My formula is 300 buffers per device. I have enough RAM.

Quote:

5. Is it possible to verfy data on hard drive with HDToolBox (OS3.9) installed on it? On selecting SCSI Interface I have "Install disk" and "Partition disk" options only.

Probably not if you can't find the option anywhere.

fc.studio · 30 August 2007, 20:48

Thanks for your quick answers.

1. Therefore as HDToolBox displays 4GB limit I have to decrease cylinders by 1 to have 3,9xxx. Or does the limit is up to 4,09xxxx?

4. About buffers I have 16MB fast so it is not a problem to increase the buffers. However I use 3 partitions, 2 smaller (128 MB each) and bootable with 2 ldifferent personalized OS3.9 versions; the 3rd (2,7GB) bigger for programs and games. I would like to find a logic system to assign them some buffer memory.

thomas · 30 August 2007, 22:28

Quote:

2- Which is the max sharp/exact cylinder number to reach the 4 GB limit?
On using the partition bar we can move it for several pixels (and every pixel is several MBytes) and HDToolBox continues to display 4,0 GB.

When you installed the drive, you entered a number of blocks per cylinder. Usually 1008 or 2016. Divide 4,294,967,296 (that's 4GB) by the number of bytes per block (usually 512) and by the number of blocks per cylinder, then you get the number of cylinders you may use. Counting starts at 0, so the highest cylinder number is one less than the number of cylinders.

For 1008 blocks per cylinder this would be

4,294,967,296 / 512 / 1008 = 8322 - 1 = 8321

And for 2016 blocks per cylinder

4,294,967,296 / 512 / 2016 = 4161 - 1 = 4160

Quote:

I would like to find a logic system to assign them some buffer memory.

One buffer needs as much memory as a file system block (this may be different from the HDD's bytes per block). Go to "Partition drive", then to "Change" and check the "file system block size".

Using 300 buffers of 1024 bytes each means you need 300KB of memory.
With three partitions this would need 900KB for the HDD.

fc.studio · 31 August 2007, 08:57

Thanks Thomas, but I would like to know if there is an optimal value to assign to each buffer for every partition. For instance Total MB Partition / x = number buffer value. And then, are there advices for a min (not lower than) and max (not greater than) number buffer value?

Bloodwych · 31 August 2007, 13:50

I don't thing there is an ideal formula based on the size of a partition.

From what I understand, the most important thing is not to set buffers too small or you may run into issues. Larger buffers will increase performance, but not by much from what I can tell.

I think the minimum was 50 for FFS, and 100 for SFS going by old documentation I read while setting up mine. I've always used 100 and never had problems. I remember trying higher numbers, but didn't notice a significant difference. I may have been bottlenecked by the 68020 though.

You can calculate the fast memory required by multiplying the number of buffers by the block size used. I'd say use whatever you're willing to spare.

thomas · 31 August 2007, 18:40

I don't know of such a formula. Usually for small partitions (up to 500 MB) I use 80 or 100 buffers, for larger partitions 200 or 300 buffers, but not more.

However, FFS benefits a lot from more buffers. Especially when a program seeks forth and back in a big file, FFS becomes much faster with a huge amount of buffers.

For example games like Doom or Quake load significantly faster when run with 1000 or 2000 buffers.

On the other hand, instead of wasting a lot of memory for speeding up FFS, you could as well use SFS which is much faster out of the box.

fc.studio · 31 August 2007, 20:20

a)
What stops me on install SFS is that I fear I can't find utilities like DiskSalv, ReOrg, QBTools. Are there similar tools for SFS?

b)
I fear on the reliability of my 2nd 2,7 GB partitions on my 3,0 GB Hard Drive.
This was my procedure to install OS 3.9. My system has KS3.0.
- I booted Install floppy (Workbench 3.1) and I used HDToolBox to read and partition the hard drive (FFS); partitions are 1st=128MB, 2nd=2,7GB, 3rd=128MB.
- After reset I booted again the same floppy to format all partitions (surely I used NO QUICK option). HD came from PC.
- I booted a floppy containing Compact Flash drivers. Therefore I installed from a compact flash to 1st partition a clean and full Workbench 3.1 with only Blizkick (to softkick 3.1 kickstart) and IDEFix (to read CD).
- I booted again and I installed OS3.9 with Boing Bags 1 and 2, but with no ROM Updates.
At the moment I have no problems on using the system but now, on reading other threads on 2 GB partition limit, I fear on the reliability of my 2,7 GB partition. What do you think?

thomas · 31 August 2007, 21:02

Quote:

I fear I can't find utilities like DiskSalv, ReOrg, QBTools

Instead of DiskSalv there should be SFSSalv. Don't know if it is up to date, though.

ReOrg... Well, I consider this a dangerous tool anyway. Doing manual reorganisation (backup / format / restore) is safer IMHO.

QBTools - never needed a tool like this. I always used LhA for backup. If at all.

Quote:

surely I used NO QUICK option

Why not ? Format option does nothing else but produce hot air and stress the HDD. Quick option is always sufficient. Full format is only needed for floppy-disks. And before you sell the HDD to somebody else.

Quote:

I booted again and I installed OS3.9 with Boing Bags 1 and 2, but with no ROM Updates.

I hope this includes creation of an emergency disk and booting from it. OS 3.9 does not install correctly if the installer is run from a pre-3.5 system (you'll get crippled icons).

Quote:

At the moment I have no problems on using the system but now, on reading other threads on 2 GB partition limit, I fear on the reliability of my 2,7 GB partition. What do you think?

Make sure that FFS V44 is installed on the HDD. Run HDToolbox off the emergency disk and use Partition Drive / Add/Update to upgrade or install FFS to the HDD.

After that it should be safe to use partitions of up to 8 GB on HDDs of up to 128 GB. But only while OS 3.9 is running and only if the ROM updates are installed. The boot partition which loads BlizKick and SetPatch has to be Kick 3.0-compliant (i.e. smaller than 2 GB and inside the first 4GB of the drive).

fc.studio · 01 September 2007, 09:29

Quarterback Tools (QBTools) allows to analyze and repair Volume, recover lost/deleted files, optimize volume. About last option I'll follow your advice.

I created the emergency disk, but to install OS 3.9 I booted from Hard Drive with Workbench 3.1, BlizzKick and IdeFix installed. I selected "Full installation over OS 3.0/3.1 or empty HD" option. I didn't know the meaning of "Crippled Icons", (my bad english) but ALL installation seemed OK.

Lately I updated FFS to 45.14 version by the unofficial OS3.9 patches,
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=22440
but this was a minor update since previous was 45.1x.

Partitions DH0 and DH2 are both about 128 MB size and bootable. On Hard Drive DH2 is physically positioned after DH1. I would like to be only sure that I will not have problems with DH1 (2,7 GB) in the future. At the moment all is OK. Is there a way to verify it now?

Jope · 01 September 2007, 09:38

QBTools / ABTools will not work on partitions that are larger than or cross the 4GB barrier!

thomas · 01 September 2007, 10:01

Quote:

I would like to be only sure that I will not have problems with DH1 (2,7 GB) in the future. At the moment all is OK. Is there a way to verify it now?

Open a shell window and enter

version dh1:

If it says 45.14, then it should be ok.

Quote:

I didn't know the meaning of "Crippled Icons", (my bad english) but ALL installation seemed OK.

The attached images show the difference.

fc.studio · 01 September 2007, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

QBTools / ABTools will not work on partitions that are larger than or cross the 4GB barrier!

This should be OK with a greater Hard drive formatted within the 4GB limit or my 3 GB HDD. But do you think I could have problems if I use these tools with partitions greater than 2,0 GB (my DH1 is 2,7 GB)?

fc.studio · 01 September 2007, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

Open a shell window and enter

version dh1:

If it says 45.14, then it should be ok.

The attached images show the difference.

- Well, my system says 45.14 so it should be OK!

- I can have an image like your first one! However, I'm sorry, but I see very little difference only in Amydock. I think is your choice, in 2nd screenshot, to have icon border ON and backdrop OFF.

thomas · 01 September 2007, 13:10

Quote:

I think is your choice, in 2nd screenshot, to have icon border ON and backdrop OFF.

No, both screenshots were taken after an installation onto an empty harddisk partition. No prefs were changed. The second image does not have a background and icon borders on because the prefs files could not be copied from the emergency disk. Icon border is a new option which only exists in OS 3.5 and above.

Quote:

I can have an image like your first one!

It does not matter what you *can* have, but what you *do* have immediately after the installation.

fc.studio · 01 September 2007, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

It does not matter what you *can* have, but what you *do* have immediately after the installation.

Well I'm happy to know my system is all OK!

Thanks again Jope, Bloodwych and, last but not least, Thomas.

30 August 2007, 19:27	#1
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Hard drive, partitions, buffer questions. Please consider A1200 with K.S. 3.0 and standard FFS: 1- I read I can install an hard drive larger than 4 GB and then prepare it to use MAX 4 GB by HDToolBox. HDToolBox uses dimensionable graphic bars to create partitions. Do I have to place the partition bars within the first 4 GB (that is 4 GB limit is always from the first cylinder)? 2- Which is the max sharp/exact cylinder number to reach the 4 GB limit? On using the partition bar we can move it for several pixels (and every pixel is several MBytes) and HDToolBox continues to display 4,0 GB. 3- Do partitions have to be max 2 GB each? I read this somewhere in this forum. At the moment I use a 2,7 GB partition (block dim=512). What could happen? 4. Is there a formula to give each partition an optimal buffer size? 5. Is it possible to verfy data on hard drive with HDToolBox (OS3.9) installed on it? On selecting SCSI Interface I have "Install disk" and "Partition disk" options only. Thanks and sorry for my bad English. Last edited by fc.studio; 30 August 2007 at 19:33.

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30 August 2007, 20:48	#3
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Thanks for your quick answers. 1. Therefore as HDToolBox displays 4GB limit I have to decrease cylinders by 1 to have 3,9xxx. Or does the limit is up to 4,09xxxx? 4. About buffers I have 16MB fast so it is not a problem to increase the buffers. However I use 3 partitions, 2 smaller (128 MB each) and bootable with 2 ldifferent personalized OS3.9 versions; the 3rd (2,7GB) bigger for programs and games. I would like to find a logic system to assign them some buffer memory.

31 August 2007, 08:57	#5
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Thanks Thomas, but I would like to know if there is an optimal value to assign to each buffer for every partition. For instance Total MB Partition / x = number buffer value. And then, are there advices for a min (not lower than) and max (not greater than) number buffer value?

31 August 2007, 13:50	#6
Bloodwych Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I'm behind you! Posts: 3,763	I don't thing there is an ideal formula based on the size of a partition. From what I understand, the most important thing is not to set buffers too small or you may run into issues. Larger buffers will increase performance, but not by much from what I can tell. I think the minimum was 50 for FFS, and 100 for SFS going by old documentation I read while setting up mine. I've always used 100 and never had problems. I remember trying higher numbers, but didn't notice a significant difference. I may have been bottlenecked by the 68020 though. You can calculate the fast memory required by multiplying the number of buffers by the block size used. I'd say use whatever you're willing to spare.

31 August 2007, 18:40	#7
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,027	I don't know of such a formula. Usually for small partitions (up to 500 MB) I use 80 or 100 buffers, for larger partitions 200 or 300 buffers, but not more. However, FFS benefits a lot from more buffers. Especially when a program seeks forth and back in a big file, FFS becomes much faster with a huge amount of buffers. For example games like Doom or Quake load significantly faster when run with 1000 or 2000 buffers. On the other hand, instead of wasting a lot of memory for speeding up FFS, you could as well use SFS which is much faster out of the box.

31 August 2007, 20:20	#8
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	a) What stops me on install SFS is that I fear I can't find utilities like DiskSalv, ReOrg, QBTools. Are there similar tools for SFS? b) I fear on the reliability of my 2nd 2,7 GB partitions on my 3,0 GB Hard Drive. This was my procedure to install OS 3.9. My system has KS3.0. - I booted Install floppy (Workbench 3.1) and I used HDToolBox to read and partition the hard drive (FFS); partitions are 1st=128MB, 2nd=2,7GB, 3rd=128MB. - After reset I booted again the same floppy to format all partitions (surely I used NO QUICK option). HD came from PC. - I booted a floppy containing Compact Flash drivers. Therefore I installed from a compact flash to 1st partition a clean and full Workbench 3.1 with only Blizkick (to softkick 3.1 kickstart) and IDEFix (to read CD). - I booted again and I installed OS3.9 with Boing Bags 1 and 2, but with no ROM Updates. At the moment I have no problems on using the system but now, on reading other threads on 2 GB partition limit, I fear on the reliability of my 2,7 GB partition. What do you think?

01 September 2007, 09:29	#10
fc.studio Cat lover Join Date: May 2004 Location: Italy Age: 54 Posts: 804	Quarterback Tools (QBTools) allows to analyze and repair Volume, recover lost/deleted files, optimize volume. About last option I'll follow your advice. I created the emergency disk, but to install OS 3.9 I booted from Hard Drive with Workbench 3.1, BlizzKick and IdeFix installed. I selected "Full installation over OS 3.0/3.1 or empty HD" option. I didn't know the meaning of "Crippled Icons", (my bad english) but ALL installation seemed OK. Lately I updated FFS to 45.14 version by the unofficial OS3.9 patches, http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=22440 but this was a minor update since previous was 45.1x. Partitions DH0 and DH2 are both about 128 MB size and bootable. On Hard Drive DH2 is physically positioned after DH1. I would like to be only sure that I will not have problems with DH1 (2,7 GB) in the future. At the moment all is OK. Is there a way to verify it now?

01 September 2007, 09:38	#11
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,916	QBTools / ABTools will not work on partitions that are larger than or cross the 4GB barrier!

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