kick 1.2 VS Kick 1.3 for A500'games compatibility - Page 2

redblade · 27 October 2007, 06:46

any one got a link to a site with information the new features of kick1.3 over kick1.2

Ie what new ROM functions.

The ECS error I'm pretty sure was a programming error of the software developers. F/A 18 Interceptor runs well on my A1200 if I can recall.

laser · 27 October 2007, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas

Neither can I (for now).

However how about a game that does not work on either 1.2 or 1.3, but 1.1 only?
The game is not much known and rare as an original: I have already mentioned it in a related thread 4 years ago: it's Quintette!

FWIW ...

right ..just tested that game...on kick 1.2 & 1.3...it start but it crash...strange

that game was made on 1986 for the A1000 before the A500 release

laser · 27 October 2007, 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogg

Dune II?

works perfect here with kick 1.2...just tested

Calgor · 27 October 2007, 12:29

For the older games (1987 and b4) 1.2 with ocs and 512kb chip was more compatible. When we upgraded our A1000 to KS1.3 + phoenix board 1mb chip + 1mb fast, some older games would not run without degrader. More problems seemed to be with the ECS and 1mb chip and fast ram rather than the kickstart version.

But KS1.3 is definitely preferred for workbench or apps, less bugs, autoboot harddisk, ffs, etc. 1.3 is more all-round standard kickstart and had longer life. Not sure if newer games don't work with ks1.2 compared with ks1.3, as never really went back to it after 88.

Graham Humphrey · 27 October 2007, 12:33

I would like to know how you got 512MB Chip RAM

mark_k · 30 October 2007, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

But KS1.3 is definitely preferred for workbench or apps, less bugs, autoboot harddisk, ffs, etc. 1.3 is more all-round standard kickstart and had longer life. Not sure if newer games don't work with ks1.2 compared with ks1.3, as never really went back to it after 88.

I believe Kickstart 1.3 was basically the same as 1.2 apart from the autoboot support. In other words, it had pretty much all the same bugs as 1.2. Also, FFS (FastFileSystem) isn't in the Kickstart 1.3 ROM, it's loaded from disk. Either as part of the autoboot process (from the RDB area), or from L: when a partition is mounted manually. FFS works fine on Kickstart 1.2 too.

Calgor · 30 October 2007, 15:30

@mark_k

Good clarification. Seems the differences may be quite small in the actual ROM, although there were tons in the workbench. Though I wonder if there were many different KS1.2 (1.2.1) and KS1.3 subversions. And what the reason there was to have different subversions. Even a small unnoted change can cause compatibility problems.

Anyhow, the most complete list of differences I can find are from:
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_13.html

@laser
I only remember Heroes of the Lance stopped working when we upgraded to KS1.3. I thought Archon/Arctic Fox from EA needed KS1.1.

Are you testing on a real amiga as well or only using winuae? If the latter, then who knows if there are still some differences with the real thing.

You also have to remember differences such as OCS and ECS if selected or not. Not sure if KS1.2 ever came from factory with ECS.

mark_k · 31 October 2007, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

@mark_k

Good clarification. Seems the differences may be quite small in the actual ROM, although there were tons in the workbench. Though I wonder if there were many different KS1.2 (1.2.1) and KS1.3 subversions. And what the reason there was to have different subversions. Even a small unnoted change can cause compatibility problems.

Yes. 1.2.1 was probably a disk release for A1000-using developers.

I do recall that (some) A1000 Kickstart 1.2 disks were of a different version to the A500/2000 ROM 1.2.

Even the default Workbench screen title in Kickstart 1.3 still says Workbench release 1.2. (LoadWB in Workbench 1.3 patches it to just say Workbench release.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgor

You also have to remember differences such as OCS and ECS if selected or not. Not sure if KS1.2 ever came from factory with ECS.

I'm pretty certain it didn't. However, quite a few machines that came with 1.3 actually had the ECS Agnus, though this was not mentioned in the documentation or marketing materials. I guess Commodore just ran out of the old chips. For many people, some incompatibilities they attributed to Kickstart 1.3 may actually have been due to the ECS Agnus.

arkpandora · 11 November 2014, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by laser

Now I offer a Ferrari as reward to found a game that fail on kick1.2 but works on kick.13

"Mr. Nutz" does fail on 1.2 and works on 1.3!

That will be a Mondial T Cabriolet, please.

Retro-Nerd · 12 November 2014, 00:06

Mr. Nutz (original) works perfectly fine with Kickstart 1.2. Have you tried a cracked version?

arkpandora · 12 November 2014, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Mr. Nutz (original) works perfectly fine with Kickstart 1.2. Have you tried a cracked version?

No, it was a brand new original that I had just bought back in 1994... It was the only one of my non-AGA games that didn't work on a KS 1.2 A500 with 1 MB, but it worked on an A4000.

If the KS is not in question, does it mean that Mr. Nutz requires 1 MB of Chip RAM? My 500 had 512 KB of Chip + 512 KB of Fast.

Retro-Nerd · 12 November 2014, 11:49

I did a Amiga 500 quickstart config test in WinUAE, with KS 1.2. The game needs no 1 MB chipram, 512 KB chipram+512 KB slowram is enough.

arkpandora · 12 November 2014, 12:13

Thanks for your test! Then maybe there was some interaction between its loader and a weakness of the disk drive. I'll forget the Ferrari.

Retroplay · 12 November 2014, 12:24

This reminds me of the issue I had with Batman a while back.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=69965

It turned out to be an issue with the drive, a Citizen OSDC-45C in my case.

Michael · 12 November 2014, 12:37

Most games of the time killed the OS, so the rom version is not important. The OLD/ECS chips are different. Also the power leds changes from red to green, so it's easier to spot an original first batch A500 (1.2 machines).

Now, potentially 1.3 dependent games are probably dos based ones that that override the system completely. I think Interface might require 1.3. And some games that heavily relied on the code in rom (see whdload/jst notes for some games) they will fail if you have the wrong rom, but that's very few, and cracks usually fixed this.

arkpandora · 12 November 2014, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retroplay

This reminds me of the issue I had with Batman a while back.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=69965

It turned out to be an issue with the drive, a Citizen OSDC-45C in my case.

Thanks! It should be the drive then, especially since Mr. Nutz used a copy protection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

Most games of the time killed the OS, so the rom version is not important. The OLD/ECS chips are different. Also the power leds changes from red to green, so it's easier to spot an original first batch A500 (1.2 machines).

My A500 was an older one with green power LED.

<edit> But I can confirm that the cracked version of Mr. Nutz I have handy is running in an emulator with both KS 1.2 and the OCS Agnus (I don't have any IPF-enabled emulator yet), so it may confirm that the original not running on my A500 was its floppy drive's fault.

27 October 2007, 12:29	#24
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	For the older games (1987 and b4) 1.2 with ocs and 512kb chip was more compatible. When we upgraded our A1000 to KS1.3 + phoenix board 1mb chip + 1mb fast, some older games would not run without degrader. More problems seemed to be with the ECS and 1mb chip and fast ram rather than the kickstart version. But KS1.3 is definitely preferred for workbench or apps, less bugs, autoboot harddisk, ffs, etc. 1.3 is more all-round standard kickstart and had longer life. Not sure if newer games don't work with ks1.2 compared with ks1.3, as never really went back to it after 88. Last edited by Calgor; 27 October 2007 at 12:40. Reason: 512mb chip ram? I wish

12 November 2014, 11:49	#32
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,454	I did a Amiga 500 quickstart config test in WinUAE, with KS 1.2. The game needs no 1 MB chipram, 512 KB chipram+512 KB slowram is enough. Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 12 November 2014 at 12:16.

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27 October 2007, 06:46	#21
redblade Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Middle Earth Age: 40 Posts: 2,127	any one got a link to a site with information the new features of kick1.3 over kick1.2 Ie what new ROM functions. The ECS error I'm pretty sure was a programming error of the software developers. F/A 18 Interceptor runs well on my A1200 if I can recall.

27 October 2007, 12:33	#25
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,168	I would like to know how you got 512MB Chip RAM

30 October 2007, 15:30	#27
Calgor (Amigas && Amigos)++ Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Anrea Posts: 999	@mark_k Good clarification. Seems the differences may be quite small in the actual ROM, although there were tons in the workbench. Though I wonder if there were many different KS1.2 (1.2.1) and KS1.3 subversions. And what the reason there was to have different subversions. Even a small unnoted change can cause compatibility problems. Anyhow, the most complete list of differences I can find are from: http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_13.html @laser I only remember Heroes of the Lance stopped working when we upgraded to KS1.3. I thought Archon/Arctic Fox from EA needed KS1.1. Are you testing on a real amiga as well or only using winuae? If the latter, then who knows if there are still some differences with the real thing. You also have to remember differences such as OCS and ECS if selected or not. Not sure if KS1.2 ever came from factory with ECS.

12 November 2014, 00:06	#30
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,454	Mr. Nutz (original) works perfectly fine with Kickstart 1.2. Have you tried a cracked version?

12 November 2014, 12:13	#33
arkpandora Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brussels / Belgium Age: 46 Posts: 55	Thanks for your test! Then maybe there was some interaction between its loader and a weakness of the disk drive. I'll forget the Ferrari.

12 November 2014, 12:24	#34
Retroplay Lemon Curry ? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Denmark Age: 49 Posts: 4,133	This reminds me of the issue I had with Batman a while back. http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=69965 It turned out to be an issue with the drive, a Citizen OSDC-45C in my case.

12 November 2014, 12:37	#35
Michael A1260T/PPC/BV/SCSI/NET Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Moscow / Russia Posts: 840	Most games of the time killed the OS, so the rom version is not important. The OLD/ECS chips are different. Also the power leds changes from red to green, so it's easier to spot an original first batch A500 (1.2 machines). Now, potentially 1.3 dependent games are probably dos based ones that that override the system completely. I think Interface might require 1.3. And some games that heavily relied on the code in rom (see whdload/jst notes for some games) they will fail if you have the wrong rom, but that's very few, and cracks usually fixed this.

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