19 April 2024, 21:59 | #3741 |
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Ok guys but I still haven't had a satisfying answer to my question: Why does my enjoying Frontier in 1994 mean that Commodore went bankrupt?
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19 April 2024, 23:15 | #3742 |
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19 April 2024, 23:33 | #3743 |
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Hammer does, but I'm not sure why: https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p...postcount=3683
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20 April 2024, 06:23 | #3744 | |
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Because you enjoyed Frontier on the A1200, an under-powered system that was no competition to the PC or game consoles, Commodore thought they could get away with not making it as powerful as it should be. By settling for less you forced other Amiga fans to jump ship to the PC because they knew Commodore wouldn't make what they wanted when people like you with low expectations would buy any old rubbish. But there weren't enough people like you to generate the sales they needed to survive... so you killed Commodore! You and Irving Gould, who had the gall to expect a nice income from the billion dollar business he had been pouring money into since 1966. You know everything you spent on the Amiga went straight into his pocket, right? As if that's what businesses are for, not curing Amiga fans of their PC envy. I tell you, Gould has a lot to answer for. I poured my heart and soul into the Amiga - telling everyone how great it was and pirating everything I could helping fans into the hobby, and all I got for it was this lousy A1200. To make matters worse we now have a 188 page long thread where people insist they weren't disappointed with it. Such lies have to be countered with facts! |
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20 April 2024, 06:51 | #3745 | |
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FYI - business like that cannot run on fan sentiment only... especially when fanbase is rapidly shrinking. |
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21 April 2024, 12:34 | #3746 | |
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As I already wrote... AGA was too little too late Something like A1200 1-2 years earlier, f.e. 1990, would have made a difference... perhaps and no A600.. then Commodore would have survived longer but if you look at that time from today, as I already wrote, only Apple survived and even Apple only with a big investment by Microsoft. All other platforms disappeared from the market. So whatever Commodore did the chance to survive would be small, at least as a independent hardware manfacturer. |
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21 April 2024, 14:14 | #3747 | |
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Jobs said Apple had the necessary money to survived without Microsoft fund. What really saved them was the success of the iMac, a product appreciated by the market, and so innovation and so Jobs vision. Commodore last right vision was the A500 but Gould fired the guy who made it possible (Rattigan). Microsoft Saved Apple - The Biggest Myth in Tech History [ Show youtube player ] |
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21 April 2024, 14:15 | #3748 |
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21 April 2024, 15:41 | #3749 | ||
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21 April 2024, 16:45 | #3750 |
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The myth is that it was an 'investment'. It was part of a settlement because MS stole Apple code.
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21 April 2024, 20:19 | #3751 | |
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21 April 2024, 20:21 | #3752 |
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More important MS stole ideas. The money was not to help apple but to help MS because they were in trouble because of the monopol they had in the market and politics threatened them to split the company.
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21 April 2024, 20:25 | #3753 |
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Commodore after Rattigan did not make any innovation indeed. I believe if UK managers could buy commodore instead of Escom, Amiga had a chance because David Pleasence had some vision/ideas instead of visionless people sitting on Amiga like Gould, Ali, Escom amiga manager
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21 April 2024, 23:17 | #3754 | |
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My point is that with bad products and no vision, a bunch of money can't save you, just postpone the deadline. The true is that we will never know what happened in the alternative timeline where Apple did not received the fund. Perhaps Jobs manage to find it elsewhere or Apple really die due to no having MSoffice on its machine or it does not become as powerful as we know it today or nothing change. We just don't know. |
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21 April 2024, 23:21 | #3755 |
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22 April 2024, 00:22 | #3756 |
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22 April 2024, 04:02 | #3757 | |
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But successful innovation doesn't just need vision, it also needs practical implementation. The job of engineers is to provide that. Apple's problem was that Jobs insisted on his vision being implemented verbatim even when it wasn't practical. Commodore's problem was letting the engineers be visionaries and then just going with whatever they came up with. Both approaches are hazardous. Commodore had multiple pet projects on the boil and as each one became ready they were supposed to market it, regardless of what the actual market was for it. But they couldn't afford to do that. Furthermore their marketing was often over-priced and ineffective due to the advertising companies not understanding the product (and/or just being plain incompetent). By the time Commodore got a manager onboard who had the vision they needed, things were pretty dire and his options were limited. The A1200 was as good a result as could be expected under the circumstances - just a pity it wasn't implemented earlier when the company wasn't in such dire straits. |
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22 April 2024, 05:20 | #3758 | ||
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@OlafSch What's that about MS stealing ideas? Are you sure no other big corporation did it before? https://dottech.org/wp-content/uploa...nfographic.jpg After the MS deal, Apple hit the paydirt with iPod - if that did not happen, maybe they'd be still only puttering along, with iMacs enjoying a few percent market share like in the beginning. And iPod was hardly "visionary" - it was a friggin' MP3 player, with a terrible software (and rather bland looking, if you ask me). It managed to start a craze because people could finally have a status-symbol gadget which was overpriced but still affordable for the masses. And most importantly it could be carried anywhere and shown to everybody. |
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22 April 2024, 06:23 | #3759 | ||||||
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For the US market, 1985's $1,285 for A1000 $1626 in 1991. $1676 in 1992. $1725 in 1993 1987's $699 for A500 $837 in 1991. $863 in 1992. $888 in 1993. A1200 entered the US market with $599 in Q4 1992 which is equivalent to $485.05 in 1987. Commodore went "Jack Tramiel" on its core customers. For "kick the OS" Amiga games, the A500 is mostly out-of-the experience with a game console insert game media and play experience. CD32's CD-ROM drive has insert a game media and play experience. Modern-day game consoles like Xbox Series S and PS5 support a keyboard and mouse. https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about...ion-calculator Quote:
You again post useless random information that's unrelated to the topic. I already posted an article on this issue. Quote:
[ Show youtube player ] 15:54 Body Blows 31:46 Gods 44:47 Pinball Fantasies 58:52 Prehistorik 2 286 @ 16 Mhz based PC with fast VGA plays A500 ported games just fine. PC's Prehistorik 2 has a parallax background. Prehistorik 2 wasn't ported to the Amiga until recent times and with RTG support. [ Show youtube player ] VGA has hardware functions for 2D games. For this example, PC hardware has an 8086 CPU and OAK OTI VGA clone. VGA is more than Atari ST's graphic chipset solution. In the early 1990s, game developers used VGA hardware functions when they ported Amiga games into PC VGA. PC's faster CPU is used in place of Amiga's 3.5 Mhz Blitter. Your 2D acceleration argument is pointless. What matters are the game results. For 2D games, the A500 had the "power without the price" entry point from 1987 to 1990. Amiga's transition into the 32-bit 2.5D/3D gaming was a debacle. There's very little chance that the Amiga OCS's 2D game library will survive against SNES's strong +128 to 256 colors 2D game library while AGA's install base is small The gaming PC's texture-mapped 2.5D/3D gaming dodged the SNES's strong 2D gaming steamroller. Last edited by hammer; 22 April 2024 at 07:15. |
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22 April 2024, 07:20 | #3760 |
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Let's take A1200 + fastram as a base machine. Has it been exploited 100%? This is the question...
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