Which are the most accurate Amiga arcade conversions?

[Shatterhand]

I don't think the problem with Bubble Bobble on Amiga is lack of source code. It doesn't need to be 100% accurate, but it could at least play a lot better. It's like Photon said, it could had been 1:1 or even better, but its screwed by being an Atari ST port.

the Master System and the MSX versions are very close to the arcade one (with the SMS having lots of extra features), there's no reason for the Amiga version to not be at least at the same level of those versions.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by s2325

(Best conversions ever) [ Show youtube player ]

Hum. It has Operation Wolf which, although good looking is really not a good conversion in my opinion, its frame rate is horrendous and it does not use more than 16 colors so it is a straight ST conversion (I would not be surprised if it scrolled that screen using a copy rather than hardware scrolling and did not use the blitter).
Ghost'n'Goblins and Ghouls'n'Ghosts are average at best.
Hang On is a disaster.
Final Fight is a fantastic tease of what it could have been but wasn't (and I don't blame Richard Aplin for that, he did his best).
I am ok with the others though.

Originally Posted by Akira

Even if you increase the amount of colors of Pac-Mania on the Amiga, like they did on the Archimedes version, it looks like absolute shit compared to the original.

Not a good port, both those (done by the same guy if I am not wrong).

Yup, and it is a shame. Aside from the higher bit count of the color palette (it has much finer gradients than the 12 bit palette of the Amiga allows) the Amiga port should have been 1:1. This game only uses a few moving sprites and hardware scrolling so there are no excuses to not have coded it in halfbrite full overscan with proper proportions for the game elements (safe for the fact that PacMania arcade uses a vertical monitor orientation).

Originally Posted by nobody

Top 5 based on quality/accuracy:
1. Pang
2. Arkanoid 1
3. Ghosts n' goblins
4. Rainbow Islands
5. Rodland

I cannot agree with Arkanoid and G'n'G but overall ok.

Originally Posted by nobody

[...]About bubble bobble you need the source code to make a perfect conversion, and taito had lost it so they couldn't recreate the game since then.

The source code is not strictly necessary, it is often possible to properly emulate (as in the original English sense) the behavior of the original game provided you properly analyze it during play and for a game like Bubble Bobble this is fairly easy to do just by playing and looking at it.

Originally Posted by Akira

My point was, however, that both the Archimedes and the Amiga port, which as I said I believe are made by the same person, share most of the same problems, mostly related to the relation between sprite size and game area size, and probably by lack of access to the original arcade's source code and therefore, the game logic.

This said, the game logic of PacMania is very simple so one does not need the source code to figure it out. Move left/right/up/down = obvious, jumps and controlled jumps = trickier but doable, ghost movement probably requires quite a few observation rounds but nothing impossible for a dedicated kitten.
Also, in terms of graphics this game is dead simple so I am not sure they really a good excuse for botching that one.

Originally Posted by Akira

As I said, both a terrible port. This was very normal of many european-made arcade ports, where they didn't even get access to source code to look at game logic (like Final Fight).

I agree that for Final Fight the game logic was very necessary but for PacMania they have no excuse.

[nobody]

About Bubble Bobble i counted 16 bubbles for P1, 16 bubbles for P2 and 4 enemies max plus bonus, letters, etc. About 40 bobs 16x16 moving around at full performance. And i remember i read somewhere in some magazine that Taito had send source code and all assets for Rainbow Islands. It's too similar to be recreated from the scratch.

[Seiya]

i don't know if someone has said: LiquidKids

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

Hang On is a disaster.

Come on... it's the most enjoyable racer on the Amiga, along with Lotus 1 and 2 and an excellent conversion. Compare with Outrun, for example.

[DamienD]

...and Ghosts 'N Goblins is a very good port IMHO

[nobody]

Originally Posted by DamienD

...and Ghosts 'N Goblins is a very good port IMHO

Very close to the original except that is not running 50 fps (around 25 i think) and cannot change direction when jumping (i play from floppy because whdload version crashes after start playing-Aca500+ on A500 plus).

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by nobody

and cannot change direction when jumping (i play from floppy because whdload version crashes after start playing-Aca500+ on A500 plus).

You can with the cracked / trained Flashtro version

See this thread: Ghosts 'N Goblins - 100% perfect disk version

...and here's the file on the Flashtro website

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by nobody

Very close to the original except that is not running 50 fps (around 25 i think) and cannot change direction when jumping (i play from floppy because whdload version crashes after start playing-Aca500+ on A500 plus).

The scrolling speeds oddly while you jump. Graphics and sound are good. Gameplay, not so good. I would rate it 6/10.

Super Hang-on is no disaster. It has to be played with a calibrated mouse (ingame option), not the joystick. Then it's one of the best Amiga racer for sure. Arkanoid and Marble Madness are nearly perfect ports for the Amiga. Everything's there.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by nobody

About Bubble Bobble i counted 16 bubbles for P1, 16 bubbles for P2 and 4 enemies max plus bonus, letters, etc. About 40 bobs 16x16 moving around at full performance.

You know... Hardware sprites and stuff. Its 40 bobs 16x16 moving around and as far as we know all being done by the CPU because... Atari ST reasons.

Then you have this:

[ Show youtube player ]

and this:

[ Show youtube player ]

I have major trouble believing the Amiga couldn't do at least as good as an MSX2 or a Master System.

Of course, except both versions were coded by Taito itself.

Anyway it's not just performance that troubles the AMiga version, is that the gameplay is really waaaay off when compared to the brilliance of the arcade game. The Amiga version plays wrongly and really badly IMO. Which is a damn shame since, as it has been said before, there's no reason for this not to be 1:1 on an Amiga or have very few compromises.

[nobody]

Probably the Amiga could do just as good as Master System version with better colors and music. That version i believe is the best port, except the emulated ones.

PS ok there is the X68000 version but is really exotic hardware only to be found in Japan

[Retro-Nerd]

The PSX/Sega Saturn versions are perfect Bubble Bubble & Rainbow Islands ports. Both are ported properly, no emulation.

[nobody]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

The PSX/Sega Saturn versions are perfect Bubble Bubble & Rainbow Islands ports. Both are ported properly, no emulation.

These versions are remakes with more colors. I had them back in the day. Doesn't play exactly like the arcade, as i said they lost the source code. But their port of rainbow islands for PS1 plays exactly like the arcade.

[Galahad/FLT]

The main reason Bubble Bobble isn't so great on Amiga is because of the programmer, David Broadhurst.

if you look at his list of games he worked on, you can see he got consistently better as time went on.

Believe it or not, he coded Dojo Dan and Assassin, i'm sure if he tackled Bubble Bobble later in his career it would have been significantly better.

The Amiga should have been arcade perfect, its a static screen ffs.

[roondar]

Ghost and Goblins is an interesting one.

It seems people either hate it or love it. The Ghouls & Ghosts fansite (http://gng.kontek.net/homepcpart2.html) is lavishing with praise, as where magazines at the time. However, over here lots of people seem to dislike it.

Personally I rather liked it. It's a pitty it's so rare - I wouldn't mind an original of the game.

[nobody]

I read from Bubble Bobble strategy wiki

"Game mechanics in conversions and ports

In many versions of the game the two-digit trick to make extra bonuses appear at the end of the stage just doesn't work, or the score and bonus awarding system is entirely different, in part due to the complexity of the original version. Most of the aforementioned techniques can be much harder or impossible to reproduce, thus completely changing (arguably ruining) the gaming experience.

Examples include even comparatively later conversions such as the 1996 PC/PlayStation/Sega Saturn versions by Acclaim: they either have different game mechanics (too fast dropping speed, barely working shoes, bubbles going through walls, different jumping physics and many non-implemented techniques) or different behavior for some monsters (especially the time-up monster).

One of the few versions having game mechanics and gameplay very close to the arcade is the Sega Master System version, despite its introduction of extra gameplay elements."

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

The main reason Bubble Bobble isn't so great on Amiga is because of the programmer, David Broadhurst.

if you look at his list of games he worked on, you can see he got consistently better as time went on.

Believe it or not, he coded Dojo Dan and Assassin, i'm sure if he tackled Bubble Bobble later in his career it would have been significantly better.

The Amiga should have been arcade perfect, its a static screen ffs.

Yes, I've noticed this... Bionic Commando is a huge mess ,then you have Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, Led Storm, Sly Spy, all really bad amiga ports.

Then he codes Overdrive and Assassin, both very fast and slick games, even if lacking somehow in the design department.

But I always thought it was more of a "Now I can code properly for Amiga instead of doing shit ST ports" than just being more experienced. Or maybe a mix of both. There's a huge gap between his work at Software Creations and then at Psionic.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

Sly Spy, all really bad amiga ports.

IMHO Sly Spy: Secret Agent is a great port.

Same goes for Chase H.Q. II: Special Criminal Investigation and Shadow Dancer.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by DamienD

IMHO Sly Spy: Secret Agent is a great port.

Same goes for Chase H.Q. II: Special Criminal Investigation and Shadow Dancer.

I tried playing Sly Spy the other day, it suffers from some serious gameplay/playability problems.. this coupled with general slowness and lack of Sound Effects made me make "meh" towards it and don't play it for too long.

Chase HQ 2 also suffers from awful framerate. I always found hilarious, you botch Outrun badly on Amiga, what you get? The privilege of porting a lot of other racing games for the system (Chase HQ 2, Cisco Heat, Roadblasters, Hydra) and basically botch all of them nearly as bad as Outrun.

Shadow Dancer is great. One of the few Sega games that's actually great on Amiga, even being an US Gold offering. It uses the same graphics assets from the ST version but it uses HW Sprites for some hud details and the blitter for bobs/scrolling, so the game actually works decently... and on top of that, the conversion was very accurate most of the time... it's a great port and a great game.

[Retro-Nerd]

Never liked the Shadow Dancer arcade version. I think the Genesis exclusive game was much better. Great Amiga port? Maybe a decent one, but not great imo.