21 November 2021, 06:22 | #201 |
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Tested on my A1200 (AGA fixed ADF by Black Monks). Works as well with a 2 button joystick (The Suzo Arcade Turbo, rewired for 2 separate buttons).
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21 November 2021, 13:07 | #202 | |
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Quote:
Since You wrote some bulls... omething before (you know what I mean) it seems something is working wrong on Your config. Mind that there is (very little, but it is) risk of damaging Paula because using as energy source for SEGA joypad if You don't switch wires 5 & 7. Please check it with appropriate software before writing more disinformation. I'm recommending JoyPortTest from AmiNet. And I have news for You, some games have not mentioned in manual 2nd or even 3rd (!) button (mainly as pause) support but they have it. |
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21 November 2021, 15:13 | #203 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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All right I PM'd you about an issue I had a while ago, then I asked you to ignore the content of that PM since my ideas had evolved. Then what ? What goes in PM stays in PM, except objectionable content of course.
It's nice of you to offer an updated list of such games, but why do we have to reach some external Polish web site to access the most up to date version ? Tit-for tat, ha ! My Paula is safe, no worries. If you were a more avid reader of the forum various contributions, you wouldn't have missed that post of mine in which I mention the benefits of using an adapter between the Mega Drive joypad / joystick and the db9 connector. There's nothing "wrong" with my config per se, pal. It just won't allow second button support in R-Type, R-Type II and a few other games, mostly shmups, simple as that. I don't have the necessary knowledge to disassemble game code, if I had, I could tell you precisely why I may use second button in certain games (e.q. Snow Bros, Flashback...), but not in others. Btw, I might consider having one of my sticks rewired, I'll ask Aardvark in PM if he can point me in the right direction for resources about such mod (I have a spare 2-button Wico Command Control which would fit the bill, I'd rather keep my Mega Drive gear untouched). Now, I'll leave it to you to maybe reconsider your piece of advice as to avoid using Mega Drive joypads or joysticks. Believe it or not, there is nothing wrong with using these on Amiga / C64 machines, assuming one plugs in a 20 quids adapter as a precautionary measure in between. The reason I wanted this particular device is because it offers to mimic "up for jump" with 2nd fire button in platformers, arcade racing games etc.. Retro gaming involves looking at the tradeoffs and compromises required, generally speaking. Actually, there is room for improvement to increase 2nd button support with a config such as mine (mind you, I can bomb with button C of my Honey Bee Competition Pro in earok version of Flying Shark), but discussing the merits of such project is beyond the scope of this thread. Last edited by SquawkBox; 22 November 2021 at 00:48. |
21 November 2021, 17:18 | #204 |
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I don't think you really need a list. Just pick a game you like and check if whdload supports button 2 or/and 3. If it does not, just yell
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28 November 2021, 03:08 | #205 | ||
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You are using adapter and that's different case. I was talking about direct connection of joypad to Amiga/Commodore. So there is nothing to reconsider because You probably misunderstood what I mean. |
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28 November 2021, 10:34 | #206 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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28 November 2021, 10:44 | #207 |
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Code:
the standard Amiga 2nd button not works in all games ie Aladdin, BCkid etc Code:
move.w #$FF01,$dff034 |
28 November 2021, 11:31 | #208 |
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I modded my joystick by following Jens' schematic, although it didn't detect 2nd button at all when resistor was connected. Without resistor it works with everything i've tried. http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/File:JoystickMod.jpg
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28 November 2021, 17:30 | #209 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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@Aardvark
Can you check 2nd fire button support for Mercs ? The manual makes no mention of a second button, and long press on F1 activates the megabomb which is the only special weapon AFAIK, so I am not sure it was implemented at all. |
28 November 2021, 18:43 | #210 |
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29 November 2021, 17:55 | #211 | |||
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It's rather not possible, beacuse botton 2 and 3 are differently shorted on Amiga and Commodore. It's possible with switch which change source (GND/VCC). |
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30 November 2021, 23:47 | #212 |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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All right, it's not your thread. Having said that, that list from the Polish forum is the de facto list for games that support 2-button in some way or another for those among us who have an interest in this. I did put "your thread" between quotation marks, didn't I ? It is quite clear that SunChild implicitly or explicitly passed on the baton, so editing the list is a matter entirely between your hands these days. It's missing ross version of Ziriax btw, aka Ziriax Ultimate Edition btw (think Ziriax SE, so to speak).
I was wrong... to assume I could use the second button of my MD joypad with each and every of the OCS / ECS games you listed, that's the reason why I asked you to ignore the PM I sent you. My setup is fine (the Paula is safe, you can check the schematics if you're curious about how it is accomplished), really it is, it just won't allow second button presses with some of the games you listed (invariably, it's not due to some kind of shortcut, or a failing controller). I can live with that, especially considering rainisto adapter allows second button to be assigned to up, which more than compensates the aforementioned functional limitation. Needless to say, it's quite clear to me R-Type and other games from your list won't work with my setup unless I try some other combination of adapter / controller. In doubt, I'll ask Aardvark again, so that you don't feel all weary and burdened because of me . I was talking about potential fixes in software not at the electrical level, having the few games that won't work with the adapter patched following the methodology of earok, when the latter tackled Flying Shark. Of course, I realize patching ADF's for this reason alone might not be the most enticing thing to do, especially considering WHDLoad covers second button needs, mostly. Despite lack of power from Paula, I can actually use second button with a handful of games e.q. Snow bros, Flashback. If you're still unsure, I can make a quick video of the adapter + joypad in action. Last edited by SquawkBox; 30 November 2021 at 23:53. |
01 December 2021, 10:27 | #213 | |||||||
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And I get it in other, ironically accursing, meaning. But that's the power of misunderstanding. So we are even now. Quote:
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I'll just add "...or check it with proper program" Quote:
No, You're understand it wrong. This adapter takes power from correct pin, that could be done also swapping 5 and 7 pin wires. But adapter may give wrong value to Amiga analogue input, so this may be source of Your problems. |
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01 December 2021, 16:43 | #214 | |||
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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02 December 2021, 12:55 | #215 |
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Case with unmodified SEGA MegaDrive/Genesis describing it exactly:
SEGA MD controllers have VCC (5V) on pin 5, on pin 7 is changing buttons set signal between (B, C) and (A, Start). Amiga have VCC on pin 7, pin 5 is analogue both input and output. Pin 6 and 9 are same, that's why buttons B and C are working on Amiga. But, You take power not from VCC but from analogue input/output from Paula, which controller from SEGA MD takes as power source. To change this You must swap wires between 5 and 7 pins or use adapter which should do same thing. In short: When You plug unmodified in some way controller from MD/G You take power not from VCC but from POTX which is directly connected and controled by Paula, so You use Paula as power source. And this is reason why there is risk that it may damage Paula. Edit: Even (much) more risky is using SID same way on Commodore 64/128, especially old (6581) version because it is more delicate than new (8580) version. Edit 2: There is way to use all four buttons of MD controllers, but first You must swap somehow wires 5 & 7. This way You can read state of POTX as swap of set same way as on MD is working. But of course You must have/write procedure to read and use this. Last edited by Solo Kazuki; 02 December 2021 at 13:17. |
02 December 2021, 13:44 | #216 |
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Also of concern is that, if Paula's output is dropped low by software, the logic chip in the MD pad is put in an undefined state beyond its specifications and unpredictable things can happen, including driving other outputs that shouldn't be driven. This could be the pad simply not working, it could be random activations or it could be stressing other I/O pins. Normally Paula's output remains high most of the time so there's little risk of this, but there are certain conditions where the output is set low - trying to read a CD32 pad is one such situation.
If there's a switch on a controller to set it to Megadrive / Other, it is most likely correcting the power connection, possibly tying MD pin 7 high, and possibly disabling the second button or connecting it up to the first so it acts as a 1-button controller. It could easily be modified to correct that, but leaving it in Megadrive mode to keep 2-button functionality will be no different to connecting a standard pad without an adaptor. Yep, reading all MD buttons on the Amiga is simple with pins 5 & 7 swapped - with pin 5 set high you can read the D-pad and buttons B and C, with it set low you can read A and start, and also identify the controller with reasonable accuracy as a Megadrive pad as both left and right of the D-pad will be activated. |
02 December 2021, 18:51 | #217 | |
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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It's the other way round, the switch enables second button support when set to Sega, whereas when set on Amiga (on Atari / Commodore) only one button is enabled. This is quite perplexing... I wonder...
Has there ever been one single period stick with 2-button support specifically made for the Amiga or the Atari ST ? It seems not. Has there ever been one single period stick or joypad with 2-button support which can be used safely on an Amiga without any modification ? Answer : The Sega Master System joypad full stop. A sad situation if you ask me. For future reference, here is the wiki entry of said Quickshot joystick. In this post, Swevicus mentions the Competition Pro Star along with the QS-138F. He assumes the former was built specifically for SMS users (which implies "safe for the miggy" if plugged directly in either of the db9 ports), but after reading corresponding wiki entry, I would argue it may have been nothing more than a marketing gimmick. In other words, potential buyers of the so called SMS iteration of the Star should not assume it's not a Mega Drive stick (albeit an early one). Quote:
So, a bit off topic, but I think it's worth mentioning that peeps should avoid plugging any of these two (three, if we include the non microswitch version of the Quickshot) joysticks on their machine, unless modified. Last but not least, those of you who are interested in the Open C64 MD Adapter (despite its limitations) and have soldering abilities, no need to buy it assembled, you can get the kit for a few bucks from here. Since it's "open" to modifications, maybe someone will come up with a revision supporting more titles from the OP list (e.q. by fully testing it and adding resistors if need be). That would make my day, even it final product was to be sold in limited series. |
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02 December 2021, 21:14 | #218 | ||
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03 December 2021, 13:50 | #219 | |||
Speedbump gimme goosebump
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And since you guys mention the possibility of assigning additional buttons (to pause the game etc.), I'd like to see this done in order to assign the space bar to a button, same with the enter key (e.q. in Hybris, both the space bar and the enter key serve some purpose). If I am about to pause a game, it's because I'll be doing something else anyway, so no biggie to reach over to the keyboard to pause. Apparently, assigning space bar to a button can be done on the C64 with two (a purely C64 / C128 adapter called the MEGA-GEN 64) adapters plugged in, with a wire soldered between the two of them (Skip to 4:07). [ Show youtube player ] You will hear the speech of a C64 FanGal, it's her who advertises that C64 adapter I just mentioned. Be prepared, as some of her intonations as she illustrates its key points sound a bit artificial. Last edited by SquawkBox; 03 December 2021 at 19:17. |
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04 December 2021, 01:04 | #220 | |||||
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The C64 is a different story indeed - it uses an opposite polarity signal for the second button so a transistor or inverter is required, but the Amiga uses active low for all three button inputs. Quote:
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