What will be the endgame for the Amiga?

[Mathesar]

Originally Posted by idrougge

One problem the Amiga has, even for those with the right inclination, is that it is extremely unaccessible. Anyone can plug and play a SNES or a Megadrive game, and the games are generally of a high quality.

The Amiga is a complex computer, with all that entails, and can frustrate even people who are used with computers simply because it is sufficiently dissimilar to other computer systems, let alone consoles. The decades of expertise in the Amiga hardware and software we take for granted is not something you can absorb in a few hours, days or weeks of study, and the system will just seem complex and alien like if one of us was suddenly presented with an X68000 with a set of Japanese manuals and a box of unlabelled floppy disks.

The fact that it was one of the first multitasking systems on a desktop is worthy of a footnote in the annals of computer history, but it was hardly the kind of breakthrough the Macintosh was.

Another factor is that Nintendo and Apple for example, still exist. So, there is still a modern user base who, in the future, might be interested in the history of their platform. And, there is still a company supporting these systems with a "history" page on their website.
As Commodore is long gone I'm afraid the Amiga will indeed finally die with it's users.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by EAUniW

On a constructive level, will the active Amiga fanbase slowly fall away and say in 50 years,

It's game over for me in a lot less than 50 years, so why should I care? I just want to get a bit more enjoyment out of it before the plug gets pulled on my own existence.

But for future generations here are my predictions:-

1. In 50 years time any Amiga that is still working will be highly sought after and worth a fortune. Forget cryptocurrencies and NFTs. Amigas are the currency of the future!

2. In 50 years time this forum won't exist. Microsoft and Intel won't exist. The Internet (as we know it) won't exist. Computers as we know them won't exist either. But the Amiga won't be forgotten. It will be revered as a truly iconic example of technology from a previous era. Anyone who has one and uses it will be treated like a god.

3. In 50 years time the polar ice caps have melted, extreme weather events are the norm, economies are collapsing, and global nuclear war is a distinct possibility. Most people are struggling just to survive. But a few lucky souls can put all that aside and imagine being back in the 'good old days' when nobody had a care in the world - as they play on their classic Amigas.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by idrougge

The Amiga is a complex computer, with all that entails, and can frustrate even people who are used with computers simply because it is sufficiently dissimilar to other computer systems...

Nonsense. The Amiga is no more frustrating than any other home computer of the day, in fact it's a lot easier to use than many of them.

it was hardly the kind of breakthrough the Macintosh was.

I had a Macintosh for a little while. Man was it a frustrating machine!

[acidbottle]

Bit of doom and gloom from some.

For sure the steam will run out and will be game over for Amiga and its users. The ZX Spectrum and Atari 2600 are a lot older and still going strong though, despite perhaps having larger user bases.

The boost in modern hardware for classic machines is really helping its life cycle and I honestly do not care about 200 years into the future, it will be part of silicon history like all machines of the 20th century .

[Gordon]

Whatever happens I am grateful to have lived with the Amiga in its original era and now.

[jbenam]

Realistically, in 50 years time it will be a mostly forgotten machine by the masses (kinda like now, except most people will remember "the computer they played with as a kid" when asked about it), with legendary status amongst Computer historians and/or people with an interest in computer history (which I am pretty sure will become a course subject one of these days). Thanks to the excellent job done by Toni with WinUAE, most of the technically curious will still be able to rapidly spin up a virtual Amiga and see what's all the fuss about. They won't bother with real hardware, which by then will need even more care and repairs.

Some of the machines that have been saved, restored and cherished in the last 10 years (during the Amiga revival) will most certainly go into museums. Most of them will be put on eBay/whatever by relatives, that will hope to make a buck out of them, with varying results. The very few remaining Amiga users will most certainly hoard (even if most, if not all will be non-working by then) them thanks to the rapidly falling prices. In another 20 years, even the hoarders' loot will end up on eBay (or whatever exists by then) and most will end up in landfills because relatives will be angry that it's just worthless trash that goes for 10 space-dollars even if they were told that "it's very rare".

A sad but realistic outcome.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Nonsense. The Amiga is no more frustrating than any other home computer of the day, in fact it's a lot easier to use than many of them.

Who ever told you that any other home computers of the day will be remembered in the future?

What I wrote was that the simple fact that the Amiga is different is enough to frustrate people trying to use it, just as I feel lost whenever I try to use RiscOS.

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

I had a Macintosh for a little while. Man was it a frustrating machine!

Nobody asked you about your Macintosh experience. Why does it feel like we’re having this discussion on a BBS in the 90s? See above regarding why people are frustrated by the Amiga, just like you are frustrated by a Macintosh.

[sparhawk]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Sadly, much as I love the Amiga, my son has a tiny bit of interest when he has watched Amiga longplays, but not much more than that.

If I cant even convince my own son that it's worth his time to explore, what chance a new audience appreciates it?

Don't be so pesimistic. My son also is not really interested in programming or these old crap that I'm so fond of (C64, Amiga, etc.), and I though on the same line. On the other hand, in my company (I'm working in an IT company with lots of nerds) I was surprised to see how many students, which are at the age of 20-25 are also interested in 8 and 16-Bit machines. So I wouldn't be surprised if the legacy continues.

[OlafSch]

Some guys here are in depressed mode it seems

The only truth is on the long run we are all dead. In 50 years I would be almost 100 and I guess Amiga heritage would be not my biggest problem then (assuming I would still live). Who knows what will be then...

At the moment there are a lot of promising developments expecially in the 68k camp including new hardware and software or projects like emu68 what might end in a standalone solution based on RPi. There is also development on OS side (both the "official branch" and "open source"). And new exclusive games and more demanding ports like Command & Conquer. Who would have predicted that 2-3 years ago. So we should enjoy what we have and not care what might be in 20-30 years. We are 20-30 years older then assuming we still live. That is the only thing you can say.

[Locutus]

I think in the end the legacy will be that preserved software archives exist that are in documented and runnable state.

Emulation is vital here, both as a way of documenting how it works, and as a means for someone to ever review old works.

Future art media and technology historians are not all that interested in the hardware artifacts themselves, but are in what people did with them as that's where the real cultural value lies.

So games, demos, applications, etc; To be able in n-years to run those accessibly is what preserves a certain digital culture.

And it's not just Amiga that this applies to, the same holds for every platform.

[modrobert]

Amiga will outlive humanity by the looks of it (thinking nuclear winter due to recent events). I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not though, still contemplating...

In the meantime, lets have fun with our Amiga(s), one day at the time, enjoy life and one of the most interesting computers ever designed.

[TEG]

I think it will be remembered time to time through the game Another World because it was a breakthrough that spread to others machines and so became a piece of the video games culture.

Perhaps there will be some mentions of Deluxe Paint.

And the Debbie Harry portrait will be showed also because of Andy Warhol. A piece of history "done of an early colour PC" or worst, to show "what PC were able to do in 1985"...

[UnnamedCourier]

It's sadly correct the Amiga won't be remembered - or at least not fondly. There's been a big re-evaluation of videogame history over the past decade or so, lead mainly by a combination of various specialist forums (e.g. shoot em ups), bigger organised attempts like Hardcore Gaming 101, and of course Youtubers. These are almost entirely American, and the main focus of their interest is Japanese games. A new canon has been formed of Japanese and American games, and these make up the new Global history of gaming.

As part of this re-evaluation, European games on home computers are outliers and therefore incomprehensible miss-steps - the pitiful equivalent of Soviet era games, or Chinese multi-game NES bootlegs. There is no place for European videogames in this new canon. The Amiga games library is almost entirely European and is increasingly seen as the definitive showcase of terrible arcade ports, horrible graphic design and wrong-headed amateur incompetence in videogames. Expect to see previously big name Amiga games brought up as memes and in Youtube compilations of the worse games of all time. The AVGN CD32 video was the canary in the coalmine of this.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by UnnamedCourier

It's sadly correct the Amiga won't be remembered - or at least not fondly. There's been a big re-evaluation of videogame history over the past decade or so, lead mainly by a combination of various specialist forums (e.g. shoot em ups), bigger organised attempts like Hardcore Gaming 101, and of course Youtubers. These are almost entirely American, and the main focus of their interest is Japanese games. A new canon has been formed of Japanese and American games, and these make up the new Global history of gaming.

As part of this re-evaluation, European games on home computers are outliers and therefore incomprehensible miss-steps - the pitiful equivalent of Soviet era games, or Chinese multi-game NES bootlegs. There is no place for European videogames in this new canon. The Amiga games library is almost entirely European and is increasingly seen as the definitive showcase of terrible arcade ports, horrible graphic design and wrong-headed amateur incompetence in videogames. Expect to see previously big name Amiga games brought up as memes and in Youtube compilations of the worse games of all time. The AVGN CD32 video was the canary in the coalmine of this.

Sadly true. And another sad fact is that Amiga had a LOT of shovelware and horrible ports - even if the hardware could do much much better.

I am one of the biggest Amiga fans around, but I have to admit that the SNES' games (and Japanese games in general) have gotten older much more graciously than their Amiga counterparts, aided by the fact that 50/60fps and plenty of hardware sprites were the norm on their hardware. Some of the Amiga games I enjoyed immensely when I was younger are now almost unplayable to me, while I still replay a bunch of SNES games regularly.

I think the Amiga still has got plenty of awesome games that the other platforms don't have, but if you strictly compare numbers, the Japanese console probably had a boatload of better-aged games and as such it's much easier for younger gamers to get into them, when compared to the usual Amiga game.

[UnnamedCourier]

Originally Posted by jbenam

I think the Amiga still has got plenty of awesome games that the other platforms don't have, but if you strictly compare numbers, the Japanese console probably had a boatload of better-aged games and as such it's much easier for younger gamers to get into them, when compared to the usual Amiga game.

The problem is also one of curation. Most of the best Amiga stuff is on the weirder side, pure arcade titles tend to be simply outclassed by console or coin-op equivalents (with exceptions). The trouble is the community (and even today, most oldskool Youtubers) stick to traditional ideas of what was seen as good in 1992. A lot of these people have a poor understanding of what was going on in console and wider gaming at the time, and recommend games that frankly in context were horrible. The classic examples are the likes of Shadow of the Beast, Great Giana Sisters or Xenon 2. If you tell some Gen Z kid who's just finished going through the Megadrive and Snes libraries these are the best games on the Amiga they are not going to come back. This attitude has done huge damage to the Amiga's reputation.

[jbenam]

Originally Posted by UnnamedCourier

A lot of these people have a poor understanding of what was going on in console and wider gaming at the time, and recommend games that frankly in context were horrible. The classic examples are the likes of Shadow of the Beast, Great Giana Sisters or Xenon 2. If you tell some Gen Z kid who's just finished going through the Megadrive and Snes libraries these are the best games on the Amiga they are not going to come back. This attitude has done huge damage to the Amiga's reputation.

You hit the nail on the head. They were okayish game back then (I most certainly played my fair share of Xenon 2 and Giana), but they have aged horribly and unless you are somehow nostalgically attached to them (and nostalgia only goes so far) they are just terrible games from a modern gamer perspective. Instead the "usual SNES games" that get recommended by everyone are all timeless masterpieces.

The Amiga had plenty to offer, but you have to look for it.

[Bahototh]

Sure feel lucky to have experienced the golden days of the Amiga.

The fact that there is such a huge gaming library, encourages tinkering and that users can/have to do a bit of searching around for it could be a good thing.

Hard to say what comes next. It's pretty exciting just to know its being remembered and even developed for still.

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by UnnamedCourier

The problem is also one of curation. Most of the best Amiga stuff is on the weirder side, pure arcade titles tend to be simply outclassed by console or coin-op equivalents (with exceptions). The trouble is the community (and even today, most oldskool Youtubers) stick to traditional ideas of what was seen as good in 1992. A lot of these people have a poor understanding of what was going on in console and wider gaming at the time, and recommend games that frankly in context were horrible. The classic examples are the likes of Shadow of the Beast, Great Giana Sisters or Xenon 2. If you tell some Gen Z kid who's just finished going through the Megadrive and Snes libraries these are the best games on the Amiga they are not going to come back. This attitude has done huge damage to the Amiga's reputation.

Haha, this is so true.

To add insult to injury, this nostalgia-driven view on Amiga games lead to a lot of late-area games, when the Amiga was no longer limited to what was reproducible on the ST, being overlooked.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by UnnamedCourier

The problem is also one of curation. Most of the best Amiga stuff is on the weirder side, pure arcade titles tend to be simply outclassed by console or coin-op equivalents (with exceptions). The trouble is the community (and even today, most oldskool Youtubers) stick to traditional ideas of what was seen as good in 1992. A lot of these people have a poor understanding of what was going on in console and wider gaming at the time, and recommend games that frankly in context were horrible. The classic examples are the likes of Shadow of the Beast, Great Giana Sisters or Xenon 2. If you tell some Gen Z kid who's just finished going through the Megadrive and Snes libraries these are the best games on the Amiga they are not going to come back. This attitude has done huge damage to the Amiga's reputation.

The fact that Amiga users still celebrating how great shitty games like Xenon 2 or Project-X are, or saying crazy stuff like "Golden Axe on Amiga is better than the Mega-Drive version!" make hard for outside people to believe Amiga actually does have good games to offer.

Even on the arcade side of things. People who had never heard of Sensible Soccer before actually find it to be extremelly good when I show it to them, and there are some other great games on the system. Like, I'll never understand how Xenon 2 and Project-X (mostly Xenon 2) receive so much love in a system that has stuff like Apidya ane Mega Typhoon. I remember back in the day when I got my cracked copy of Xenon 2, I was pissed because I thought it was a Beta version or something, because there was NO WAY that horrible game was the same I saw getting so much praise (But I had access to good japanese shoot'em ups back then).

But honestly, stuff like Nitro, All Terrain Race, D/Generation, Turrican trilogy, Lotus 2, Stunt Car Race, Qwak, BC Kid, The Chaos Engine, Arabian Nights, Uridium 2, Mega Typhoon, Apidya, Stardust, the Pinball Trilogy, Walker, Brutal Sports Football .... those are games I show people today, people who are interested in retrogaming and know Mega-Drive and SNES stuff and are games that are usually appreciated.

[saimon69]

That is one of the reason i try to advocate for new ports: to change the mind of many and show "ok we screwed up this one but was doable, look here!" Like the new McGeezer ports