What Makes The Amiga CD32 The Best Amiga?

[S0ulA55a551n]

Originally Posted by FOL

, pang, that was fun.

One of the few decent games (at the time) on the gx4000/cpc+

[str0m]

Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n

One of the few decent games (at the time) on the gx4000/cpc+

Yer I have it on my GX4000. Only thing which lets it down is some dodgy collision detection, rest of it is very good considering the hardware.


Amiga Pang is a great conversion. I prefer the original to the sequels (arcade only)

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

I played around with the Neo Geo recently ( just in C. I am not a good coder) and all that machine has are sprites. It has no bitmaps, no playfields (apart from a static score/status overlay). It's probably the easiest machine ever to program for. Backgrounds are made up of 20 sprites linked together side by side ( Similar to Amiga sprites they are 16 pixels wide and 512 pixels high). Having only sprites makes it very simple and elegant to code for

So I think giving the Amiga 64 sprites or even 32 would have made a big difference to quality of games.

The CD32 can probably stream data off the CD to make game levels have more enemies and animation - console-style. So this makes it more of an arcade quality console. Fighting Spirit on CD32 is close to a Neo Geo versus fighter. Maybe one like Fatal Fury or Fatal Fury Special

Yep, but I cannot write a letter, pixel graphics or compose music on a NEO GEO.

For the amount of stuff the Amiga could do in 1985 when it was released, it chose an actually quite genius middle way to use its hardware for being useful in games and creative dev or work stuff as well.

The Amiga is all about getting the most bang for the least amount of bucks, in a way.

If I was to change anything on the OCS hardware with the least amount of modification, it would be a true 64 color mode by "just" adding those 32 additional hardware registers and a double playfield with a 4-2 plane split for 15 to 4 colours parallax instead of that weirdo 7 - 8. With the later you could easily recreate most of the arcade games of its time with no problems.

Otherwise it's a really clever little machine.

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Steril707

If I was to change anything on the OCS hardware with the least amount of modification, it would be a true 64 color mode by "just" adding those 32 additional hardware registers and a double playfield with a 4-2 plane split for 15 to 4 colours parallax instead of that weirdo 7 - 8. With the later you could easily recreate most of the arcade games of its time with no problems.

Otherwise it's a really clever little machine.

Indeed, those would be nice additions. Perhaps even better if the playfield hardware allowed any 2 layer split to be chosen (even silly ones like 1/5).

Personally I'd also change some very small things about the Copper (supporting a move multiple instruction for setting a bunch of colours 2x faster) and Blitter (direct X,Y coordinate support would be nice, as well as Blitter queues or some other way to not have to manually wait on blits).

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by roondar

Indeed, those would be nice additions. Perhaps even better if the playfield hardware allowed any 2 layer split to be chosen (even silly ones like 1/5).

Never thought about this, but you are right.
That would be amazing.
Easy way to have overlays on that "silly" split for a otherwise normal playfield in the back.

Originally Posted by roondar

Personally I'd also change some very small things about the Copper (supporting a move multiple instruction for setting a bunch of colours 2x faster) and Blitter (direct X,Y coordinate support would be nice, as well as Blitter queues or some other way to not have to manually wait on blits).

Yay, but that's a bit too much too of a hypothetical change on this old hardware maybe.

[roondar]

Probably yes

Oh well, we're still quite fortunate with what we have. The Amiga is such a nice platform to be creative on. Not only for art/music, but also as a coder

[Gilbert]

Originally Posted by FOL

Why does every one bang on about doom and all the other rubbish.
I think they are complete rubbish, waste hardware use. Everytime an amigan starts a discussion, they get it excited about DOOM. Seriously I do not get it.

It's because it was huge back when the CD32 came out and was driving PC sales. I think it was really impressive graphically for the time too. I'm not a huge fan but I have it on my 360 and is a great version and it's a fun game even now.

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

No it couldn't.
It can maybe run some clone of Doom, in some acceptable frame rate, if coded by few geniuses over a few years, and using every possible trick that can be used.
But if you apply that logic, then we could assume that Doom clone (that runs fast) could also be developed for 386/DX40, also using a every possible trick.

CD32 was just not good enough for the time (same goes to A1200).
68020 was pretty much obsolete, and Aga chipset was Okay-ish, but nothing revolutionary.
If C= made CD32 architecture more like the Playstation style (and I've heard some Amiga engineers worked on PS (or at least, PS "borrowed" some Amiga designb ideas), then we could maybe say it's the best Amiga (again - maybe).

For me, the best Amiga (back then) is some A4000/060, lot's of Ram + RTG, if we count raw power.
If we count date of release, and everything else, then it's gotta be A500, or A1000.

CD32 (in my opinion) is way behind CDTV, because CDTV was also very ahead of it's time. So much ahead, that it was it's Doom (people and developers just didn't know what to do with it).

But what about the A500 version of Doom we have now? The SNES version is missing ceilings and floors (from memory) I don't get why CD32 has to run an exact copy of the PC version?? The Jaguar version isn't even a copy and has no music because it was custom-coded to the rafters and used the sound chip for extra processing power. So David Pleasance was basically saying "Amiga developers stop trying to make a one-to-one port and put some effort into it"

The games we saw on CD32 were very early games and most of them ports/shovelware. It had a lot more power under the hood.

Originally Posted by FOL

Could just be, I found girls more interesting by then.

The CD32 is great at attracting women. They like that it can play current pop music from CD by artists such as Kylie Minogue, Boyzone and Peter Andre. You can't do that on an A1200.

Originally Posted by spudisgood

Well to me seems underpowered, basically an A1200 with a CD drive and no keyboard/mouse. Games look no better than what was then current-gen 16-bit consoles such as the Super Nintendo and the games that were available seem to be existing A500 games with a few more colours and CD audio.

If you want an example of how Commodore should have gone about 32-bit CD-based games console look no further than the Sony PlayStation. I would even rate the Atari Jaguar above CD32 in terms of performance and I think it was more popular too. CD32 to me seems to be like the C64 console, an attempt to cash in and make some money when times were desperate financially. They should have avoided it altogether and concentrated on getting a AAA/Hombre based Amiga out to replace the underpowered A1200.

To the people saying the CD32 should have been the Playstation - well it was released way before the Playstation and Commodore had no money. For me in an ideal world it should have been like the Atari Lynx in console form - the Lynx was designed by the Amiga 500 designers.

Originally Posted by str0m

Yer I have it on my GX4000. Only thing which lets it down is some dodgy collision detection, rest of it is very good considering the hardware.

Amiga Pang is a great conversion. I prefer the original to the sequels (arcade only)

I'm impressed you have a GX4000. I am interested in that console

Originally Posted by Steril707

Yep, but I cannot write a letter, pixel graphics or compose music on a NEO GEO.

That was just in reply to a guy who said sprites aren't much use. I was just saying all the Neo Geo has are sprites and it accomplishes a lot.

If they had given the original Amiga 16 sprites at least would have really helped with games. That Atari 2600 released in the 70s had 5 or 6 sprites maybe and the C64 had 8 I think. Amiga should have had more in my opinion.

[str0m]

"I'm impressed you have a GX4000. I am interested in that console"

Small library but I luckily have a multicart with most of them on and another cart with a rather good new version of ghosts n goblins. Sadly the excellent CPC Pinball Dreams port needs 128k ram which the GX doesn't have.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by str0m

Sadly the excellent CPC Pinball Dreams port needs 128k ram which the GX doesn't have.

Well, there's this GX/6128+ hybrid sitting next to me...

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

It's because it was huge back when the CD32 came out and was driving PC sales.

Amiga CD32: Announced July 16 1993, released Sept 1993.

Doom: released December 10 1993.

There's no doubt that Doom was driving PC sales, but so were all the other PC games. PC sales were always well ahead of Amiga, and those users desperately wanted games for their machines so the PC games market was much larger as well, even before Doom.

But what about the A500 version of Doom we have now? The SNES version is missing ceilings and floors (from memory) I don't get why CD32 has to run an exact copy of the PC version?? The Jaguar version isn't even a copy and has no music because it was custom-coded to the rafters and used the sound chip for extra processing power. So David Pleasance was basically saying "Amiga developers stop trying to make a one-to-one port and put some effort into it"

The difference is that Amiga developers didn't have the backing, because Amiqa game sales were poor and piracy was rife. Console developers could afford to do do it because they had strong backing and a guaranteed market.

BTW the SNES Doom cartridge had a lot of extra hardware in it, so it wasn't just a matter of re-coding for a lower spec machine. Imagine if Amiga games came with a ROM, extra RAM and custom-made RISC processor programmed to act as a graphics accelerator!

The games we saw on CD32 were very early games and most of them ports/shovelware. It had a lot more power under the hood.

Yes, it's true that the CD32's (and A1200's) hardware was not fully exploited by most games. However many older games could have been well worth porting to it just for basic improvements such as faster loading with no disk swaps, CD audio tracks etc. I wrote the code for an early CDTV multimedia title, and Commodore was impressed by the speed I managed to get out the machine. But when run on in the CD32 it was twice as fast and much slicker. Many existing games would have been much nicer to play on the CD32 if they bothered to port them properly.

What Commodore should have done was hoover up as many old games as they could at bargain prices, then port them into the CD32 as a bundle of 'classic' games. But they didn't even have the resources (or the vision) to do that.

To the people saying the CD32 should have been the Playstation - well it was released way before the Playstation and Commodore had no money.

Indeed, Commodore didn't even exist when the PlayStation came out.

Instead of producing an FMV cartridge for the CD32, Commodore should should have made a 3D graphics board for it. But back when they were designing the CD32, nobody thought that was the way to go.

If they had given the original Amiga 16 sprites at least would have really helped with games. That Atari 2600 released in the 70s had 5 or 6 sprites maybe and the C64 had 8 I think. Amiga should have had more in my opinion.

The Amiga's sprites are much more advanced than those on the C64. But It wouldn't matter what they put in it, Amiga users would always say it should have had more. PCs had no sprites, no blitter, no copper, no dual playfields etc., and yet users didn't complain. They were happy enough to get any games.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by Gilbert

No they haven't - they just ignored them. Why can't the AUX port be used for saving games then? It's a serial port. Which you would have seen if you had clicked on the link I gave

The Amiga CD32 keyboard connector also includes a serialport.

I don't think I need to visit a mental health professional (bit extreme !) for liking the CD32 or for stating that Frontier was ported across from other Amigas (obviously a quick job). You actually think it was made specifically for the CD32 ?? It's a one floppy disc game. Most of the CD32 games were shovelware. Because it was cost effective for developers to port existing games across with very few and sometimes zero changes.

Shovelware = "software or online content that has been added to a CD or placed on the internet without having been altered so as to suit the new medium."



You have obviously never seen a Megadrive (there's a reason they put "16 bit" on the casing) and/or don't know anything about the development of Frontier. Maybe both!

If you just 'liked' the CD32, nobody would have a problem. But you seem to worship it, ignoring it's bad points and misrepresenting it's good points, based on a fundamental lack of understanding. Or... you're just trolling.

Why can't the AUX port save games? Because nobody has implemented that feature in either the games or the hardware you connect to it. Do you actually know what a serial port is?

The CD32 is nothing more than a modified and castrated A1200 with a built in (and rather limited) CD ROM drive, a quick and dirty C2P feature that nobody used, all packed in to a flimsy black case. It failed to sell in any great numbers and nobody made decent games specifically for it. Case closed.

[Retro1234]

why was Commodore so poor by this point? and they had already done the C64 games system and the CDTV why do it all over again?

[roondar]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

why was Commodore so poor by this point? and they had already done the C64 games system and the CDTV why do it all over again?

The Amiga market crashed 'over night'. Until 1992, sales had been rapidly increasing year over year. In 1993 however, sales dropped so quickly* that they had no cashflow into the company so no money to pay for things anymore. This had several reasons, but the AGA chipset being merely about on-par with low end SVGA and not as revolutionary as all had hoped was clearly one of them.

The CD32, in the words of Commodore's own ex-employees, was a last-gasp effort to try and get sales moving again.

Couple all that with financial management that was clearly not aimed at making the company, but rather it's owners richer and a refusal to do sensible things that other companies did when they needed lots of money for things like R&D (such as adding new shares so people could actually invest in the company, or reserving money for such things ahead of time) meant that it was never really all that rich to begin with.

*) As far as I know, in 1992 they sold somewhere around 1-1.5 million Amiga's and still a reasonable number of C64's, in 1993 they sold closer to 500.000 Amiga's and virtually no C64's.

[kamelito]

The Amiga should have been released as a game console too from the beginning so they could earn money for each games sold.

[dreadnought]

Originally Posted by kamelito

The Amiga should have been released as a game console too from the beginning so they could earn money for each games sold.

And what, all of us interested in microcomputers, not consoles, would have to buy an ST?

[kamelito]

Originally Posted by dreadnought

And what, all of us interested in microcomputers, not consoles, would have to buy an ST?

I wrote « too » meaning in plus of the computer.

[FOL]

Proberly explains why I missed all the doom crap. I stayed with CD32, then went straight to PSX, year after release. Then stayed with that until 98, gave into windows 98. Only to play Startrek Generations and Startrek adventure game.


Never even heard of DOOM until 2009.

[BippyM]

It isn't the best Amiga... It is one of the most versatile, but only due to recent upgrades like the tf cards etc

[FOL]

Originally Posted by BippyM

It isn't the best Amiga... It is one of the most versatile, but only due to recent upgrades like the tf cards etc

I do remember seeing it advertised in the Amiga mags. Me and my brother would just dream about owning the whole kit, including addon to give keyboard and stuff.

Ah, what an enjoyable past time. We all did, wether it was scouring the latest Argos catalogue or Amiga mags. We would ring what we thought we would get.

Besides, lets solve this whole thread.

Is it an Amiga, check.
Does it play Amiga games, check.
Does it have cool boot animation, check.

Well if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then isnt it an.........ermmmmm........ Amiga,

Enough said, mods mark this thread solved, lol.

[DamienD]

The debate isn't whether or not the CD32 is an Amiga; of course it is.

It's about is it the best Amiga... and in relation to that, it clearly isn't give all the valid reason provided by majority people in this thread.

Just because one huge fanboy says it is doesn't make it true; yet he'll continue to argue that it is no matter what