03 March 2015, 20:55 | #21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,867
|
RGB or YPbPr (YUV) is more related to DAC design not chipset - even today RGB can be used as YUV (software related - put in color registers values for YPbPr) - nowadays you can hook to RGB a YPbPr input directly and code colors in software (not sure if this approach was not used by DCTV as DCTV is one big mystery - i can't find any detail how DCTV code video).
|
03 March 2015, 22:50 | #22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: milan / italy
Posts: 174
|
Yes. I was not clear.
With my comment I meant that I doubt commodore ever made the chip set as originally designed: yuv and with composite signal generation builtin. http://elwoodb.free.fr/Amiga/Jay.txt It is actually fascinating to think that it would have been possible to have an Amiga with software selectable RGB/yuv mode. |
04 March 2015, 08:55 | #23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,867
|
Quote:
Yes, i know however seem that HAM should be in YUV mode with RGB output (i.e. YUV color space conversion on silicone). Currently i investigating new vidiot capable to do regular RGB + YPbPr directly (same Amiga output as usual, sync on green etc) with digital control and perhaps some uC (XMOS?) on board to do extra things. (To be honest it is quite tempting to place 3x32kB 8bit SRAM chips from old PC cache to have huge CLUT - controlling this from Copper/CPU and for example XMOS uC may be a nice thing - AGA already have similar feature and allow to put CLUT index in digital way). |
|
04 March 2015, 12:29 | #24 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Amigaville
Age: 46
Posts: 3,337
|
Quote:
edit: Yes, according to the text file 'ovale' posted above; "In 1983 we made a motherboard for the breads to be plugged in, took this to the CES show and we showed some little demos to selected people away from the main floor. At the show itself, they wrote the bouncing ball demo and this blew people away. They couldn't believe that all this wiring was going to be three chips. The booming noise of the ball was Bob Parasseau hitting a foam baseball bat against our garage door. It was sampled on an Apple ][ and the data massaged into Amiga samples.CES was really important to us as we were getting short of money and the response from that show really lifted the team. We were still short of money and several re-mortgages later we managed to keep up with the payroll. It's amazing how much it costs to pay 15 or 20 people!" So that 'black box' prototype is from the 1983 CES show. Last edited by Paul_s; 04 March 2015 at 12:39. |
|
04 March 2015, 14:13 | #25 |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,553
|
Explanation for "Copper not draining" serial debug message (that does not appear in emulation, for obvious reasons): Copper is not working.
"Dancing April Fool's GFXLIB" creates single-move copper list that should clear copper dma bit in DMACON. If bit does not clear after short CPU delay, "Copper not draining" is written to serial port, GFXLIB init is aborted, screen stays black (instead of showing green on black garbage..) Probably not the only chip bug in prototype chips. |
04 March 2015, 16:02 | #26 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,349
|
Quote:
The pic here shows the Portia chip (later known as Paula) at the bottom centre. "4703" is written on it. That chip looks to be on some kind of "kludge board", that board plugging into the socket on the motherboard. That may obscure another of the custom chips which could be plugged directly into the motherboard. Another board with what looks like the mouse port connectors on (lower right of the above pic) could obscure another custom chip. The serial number label on the side says COMMODORE-AMIGA DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM SERIAL NO. D-116 |
|
04 March 2015, 16:09 | #27 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,867
|
Quote:
|
|
04 March 2015, 21:27 | #28 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Amigaville
Age: 46
Posts: 3,337
|
Quote:
I did some searching on Lorraine and found this page... http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ck.../lorraine.html That explains it then and that the picture of the breadboards/developer system were some kind of showcase to show what they had developed (not physical linked to one another).. ah, makes sense now. edit: that photo of the breadboard/developer system were taken in 2003 - Dale Luck owns those apparently. Last edited by Paul_s; 04 March 2015 at 21:37. |
|
05 March 2015, 06:52 | #29 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: milan / italy
Posts: 174
|
Quote:
The drawback is that clut can be changed only on the vblank. A new vidiot savant could also transform halfbright mode in a real 64 colors mode, and as you said perform yuv to RGB conversion for a yuv ham mode. Please do it |
|
05 March 2015, 15:13 | #30 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,867
|
Quote:
Going slightly further and accessing Denise (RGA + other signals) gives lot of possibilities. Last edited by pandy71; 05 March 2015 at 15:49. |
|
08 March 2015, 12:10 | #31 | |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,553
|
Quote:
It may have been late Paula revision feature and they didn't want (and/or have time) to modify already feature complete and fully tested trackdisk.device code. |
|
27 March 2015, 18:20 | #32 |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,553
|
Another hardware difference found: Both CIA chips generate interrupt level 2. (CIA-A = level 2 and CIA-B = level 6 in production hardware)
|
03 May 2015, 18:02 | #33 | |
Posts: n/a
|
Quote:
very interesting thread! Does the garbled screen look like this ? This is a screenshot from an Amiga Velvet, ROM v24.61 with the serial number D-597. I have never tried to connect this Amiga to a serial terminal. Frank Last edited by NGFrankW; 03 May 2015 at 18:09. |
|
03 May 2015, 18:46 | #34 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,349
|
Aha, so someone else has one of these early units.
Would you be able to dump its Kickstart ROMs? It might in theory be possible to dump them using software if you don't want to risk damaging the chips. In the mean time, write the attached ADF to disk and try booting your Velvet unit with it. Does it boot? You should see multi-coloured stripes if it does. |
03 May 2015, 18:52 | #35 |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,553
|
|
03 May 2015, 20:09 | #36 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 741
|
Ah... so this was one of the machines that was used to develop CBM's Paula patent. I know the original data separator logic was external to Paula, and then was later combined into the final rev chip, along with the other goodies (sound, DMA channels, etc.)
|
04 May 2015, 11:55 | #37 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: nottingham uk
Posts: 95
|
|
04 May 2015, 14:23 | #38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,349
|
A few ideas for how to dump the ROM data without physically removing and reading the EPROM chips:
- Output ROM data over the serial port, capture the data on your PC. Maybe the built-in serial monitor can be used for that, in which case no need for a working floppy drive. - Write a small program to show a graphical representation of ROM data. Capture Amiga video output and process on PC to extract the data. (Similar principle to those old video backup system products, except simpler.) - Write a small program to write the ROM data to floppy disk. I might have a go at doing that myself... Last edited by mark_k; 04 May 2015 at 19:32. |
04 May 2015, 18:51 | #39 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,349
|
Okay, here's that Velvet ROM-dumping program!
Instructions: Write the ADF to a disk. Leave it write-enabled. Power on Velvet system, insert the disk. Press Ctrl-Amiga-Amiga to reset. Initially the screen will be yellow for a couple of seconds. As ROM data is written to the disk it flashes black/white. When finished the screen goes green. If there is a write error screen will go red. Not tested on real hardware, but seems to work in WinUAE. Edit to add: The 512KB at $F80000 is written to disk starting at track 1 side 0 (so offset 11264 in the ADF file). Edit 2: if you accidentally boot with the disk write-protected the screen will go red, but I forgot to turn the drive motor off in that case. You'll probably want to reset then quickly remove the disk instead of removing it with the motor spinning. Last edited by mark_k; 04 May 2015 at 20:02. |
15 May 2017, 12:53 | #40 |
Ancient User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GREECE
Age: 50
Posts: 759
|
Sorry for waking up the dead, but was there any progress with that ever?
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
A500++ Prototype | Smiley | Amiga scene | 36 | 08 January 2015 01:55 |
Working Natami Prototype | gilgamesh | Amiga scene | 51 | 29 May 2010 22:29 |
A2631 Prototype | BinoX | Hardware pics | 29 | 05 December 2007 23:10 |
Sonic 2 Prototype released | Qube | Retrogaming General Discussion | 5 | 08 November 2006 22:43 |
A prototype CD drive for a500. | Smiley | MarketPlace | 8 | 19 March 2005 17:39 |
|
|