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Old 23 June 2012, 20:52   #1
BlankVector
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EmuTOS for Amiga

Hello.

I'm proud to announce that EmuTOS is now available for Amiga.
It is an operating system compatible with the Atari ST original OS.
As a result, you can run clean Atari ST programs on Amiga hardware, provided that they only use the OS and not the Atari hardware.

EmuTOS is provided as a Kickstart ROM replacement.
You can download the latest snapshot there:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/emut.../CVS-20120623/

It runs fine on WinUAE, in monochrome video mode, and with IDE hard disk support.

For the details, you can have a look at the readme.txt inside the emutos-amiga-*.zip archive.

This will probably be useless, but anyway, that's cool
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Old 23 June 2012, 23:23   #2
desiv
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Seems interesting, thanx!!

The other project I was interested in was KickTOS.
Would love to try that on my A1000..
Did that ever get a release of any kind?

Anyway, thanx. Haven't played with the ST too much, but it looks interesting.

desiv
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Old 23 June 2012, 23:54   #3
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Hi BlankVector,

Thanks for sharing this news with us here.
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Old 24 June 2012, 08:40   #4
XDelusion
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Very cool!
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Old 24 June 2012, 14:12   #5
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Interesting stuff, and thank you

Just curious though, can this be used on a real amiga as well, or is it soley for the emulator realm? I dont mean to discredit your work, but Im not sure I see much point if it doesnt run on real amigas as well (why wouldnt someone just use something like STonX, Hatari, or Steem for example instead?)
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Old 24 June 2012, 14:34   #6
strim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankVector View Post
I'm proud to announce that EmuTOS is now available for Amiga.
That's really incredible. I'm interested how (and if) it works on a real hardware. Unfortunately, now I am away from my amigas, but I'll test as soon as possible.

I don't know much about TOS internals, but maybe I could help adding support for some Amiga hardware. I wrote a few drivers for the NetBSD .
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Old 24 June 2012, 14:44   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strim View Post
That's really incredible. I'm interested how (and if) it works on a real hardware. Unfortunately, now I am away from my amigas, but I'll test as soon as possible.

I don't know much about TOS internals, but maybe I could help adding support for some Amiga hardware. I wrote a few drivers for the NetBSD .
They need floppy support implemented for the amiga. Colour support would be nice too
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Old 24 June 2012, 15:11   #8
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> That's really incredible. I'm interested how (and if) it works on a real hardware.

I seem to remember that programming TOS on Atari works as follows:

move.w #<parameter>, -(sp) ; push function parameter onto stack
move.w #<function number>, -(sp) ; the function you want to call
trap #21 ; call tos function
add.w #4, sp ; correct stack

the "trap" is like a user interrupt, on both the ST and Amiga you can set a handler for it something like eg move.l #handler, $80

and <function number> might be 1 for open file, 2 for close file, etc in which case a simple tos emulator would look like this:

void handler(int function_number, ...)
{
if (function_number == 1)
{
// put code for open file here
}
else if (function_number == 2)
{
// put code for close file here
}
}
etc

very cool project, with the only problem that most of the worthwhile ST applications would hit the hardware in some way and not be pure TOS/GEM. My guess is that the neochome paint program will not work, however perhaps the "Magic Shadow Archiver" for atari .msa disk images will work?
 
Old 24 June 2012, 15:17   #9
frank_b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deg View Post
> That's really incredible. I'm interested how (and if) it works on a real hardware.

I seem to remember that programming TOS on Atari works as follows:

move.w #<parameter>, -(sp) ; push function parameter onto stack
move.w #<function number>, -(sp) ; the function you want to call
trap #21 ; call tos function
add.w #4, sp ; correct stack

the "trap" is like a user interrupt, on both the ST and Amiga you can set a handler for it something like eg move.l #handler, $80

and <function number> might be 1 for open file, 2 for close file, etc in which case a simple tos emulator would look like this:

void handler(int function_number, ...)
{
if (function_number == 1)
{
// put code for open file here
}
else if (function_number == 2)
{
// put code for close file here
}
}
etc

very cool project, with the only problem that most of the worthwhile ST applications would hit the hardware in some way and not be pure TOS/GEM. My guess is that the neochome paint program will not work, however perhaps the "Magic Shadow Archiver" for atari .msa disk images will work?
Correct about the TOS calls above however MSA won't work yet because there's no floppy support. What would be cool would be do get Emutos running as a process in Amiga OS in the same manner as shapeshifter.
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Old 24 June 2012, 18:03   #10
fishyfish
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Quote:
What would be cool would be do get Emutos running as a process in Amiga OS in the same manner as shapeshifter.
That'd be very cool
Im not hugely familiar with atari's 16bit computers beyond playing with them on emulators, so excuse my ignorance, but what's the relationship between tos and gem? Does it parallel kickstart/WB, or is gem more akin to a kickstart replacement?
Ultimately I guess Im trying to find out if the above hypothetical scenario would allow a person to use some Falcon software? (this is assuming the falcom uses, or can use Gem?)
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Old 24 June 2012, 18:04   #11
gibs
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What to do with the .img file ?
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Old 24 June 2012, 18:12   #12
Schlachtwerk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibs View Post
What to do with the .img file ?
The IMG is the Kickstart Replacment.
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Old 24 June 2012, 18:19   #13
gibs
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Yes, I know but how to kick it (on real hw)? I tried with BlizKick without success...
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Old 24 June 2012, 18:35   #14
Schlachtwerk
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Originally Posted by gibs View Post
Yes, I know but how to kick it (on real hw)? I tried with BlizKick without success...
I dont know, i have only test it with winuae.
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Old 24 June 2012, 19:33   #15
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This is awesome news, I hope we can run it as a process like Shapeshifter some day too... at the same time as Shapeshifter would be nice. I'd like to show off running three OSs at the same time.

I'm going to try and see if I can get it running on the ACA1230.
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Old 24 June 2012, 20:31   #16
frank_b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishyfish View Post
That'd be very cool
Im not hugely familiar with atari's 16bit computers beyond playing with them on emulators, so excuse my ignorance, but what's the relationship between tos and gem? Does it parallel kickstart/WB, or is gem more akin to a kickstart replacement?
Ultimately I guess Im trying to find out if the above hypothetical scenario would allow a person to use some Falcon software? (this is assuming the falcom uses, or can use Gem?)
TOS is the bios and console mode part of the OS and GEM is the gui.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_TOS

There is an emu tos build for the Falcon too.
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Old 25 June 2012, 00:04   #17
BlankVector
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desiv View Post
The other project I was interested in was KickTOS.
Exactly! When I saw the KickTOS video 2 years ago, I realized that the ST-High video mode (only 1 bitplane) was compatible with the Amiga Playfield hardware. So I thought that EmuTOS should work... and it does

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishyfish View Post
Just curious though, can this be used on a real amiga as well, or is it soley for the emulator realm?
It should work on real Amiga hardware, but you will have to replace the Kickstart ROM
Also, the keyboard may not work correctly because I didn't send the acknowledges (not required by WinUAE).

For Atari machines, EmuTOS is also shipped as RAM version, to be loaded from floppy or hard disk without having to replace the ROM. It works fine on ST hardware. We could easily do the same for Amiga, if someones writes a loader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishyfish View Post
(why wouldnt someone just use something like STonX, Hatari, or Steem for example instead?)
Don't search any good reason for the existence of EmuTOS for Amiga. I did it because it's cool, no more

Quote:
Originally Posted by strim View Post
I don't know much about TOS internals, but maybe I could help adding support for some Amiga hardware. I wrote a few drivers for the NetBSD .
Definitely, you are welcome! Feel free to examine the sources (the Amiga specific parts are really tiny), and you can join the emutos-devel mailing list for further work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
They need floppy support implemented for the amiga. Colour support would be nice too
Yes, floppy support is really a key missing feature.
However, EmuTOS supports only FAT12/FAT16 filesystems, so it is probably not worth supporting traditional Amiga floppies.
And I'm not sure if Amiga emulators support Atari floppy images (similar to PC ones).

About Color video modes, unfortunately I'm not sure if they could work (without additional drivers, of course). The Atari hardware uses interlaced bitplanes every 16 pixels, and I'm not sure that the Amiga Playfield hardware is able to handle that

Quote:
Originally Posted by deg View Post
very cool project, with the only problem that most of the worthwhile ST applications would hit the hardware in some way and not be pure TOS/GEM.
True. But the latest Atari compatible machines (Milan...) were not so much compatible with the original ST hardware, so clean programs finally appeared. Those ones should work fine on Amiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deg View Post
My guess is that the neochome paint program will not work
It will probably never work. It uses ST-Low color video mode, rasters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deg View Post
however perhaps the "Magic Shadow Archiver" for atari .msa disk images will work?
If MSA only uses the BIOS to access the floppies, it should also work on Amiga as soon as a floppy driver is available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibs View Post
Yes, I know but how to kick it (on real hw)? I tried with BlizKick without success...
I don't know BlizKick, but if you explain me what it does I may be able to build a custom EmuTOS for it.
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Old 25 June 2012, 02:03   #18
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Converting the Atari ST screen mode in realtime can be done, its not exactly speedy, but if someone wanted to run GEM in colour, it isn't a problem.

Obviously on base 68000 systems it'll be slow, but on faster machines, its not really a problem at all, its a very simple routine to write and you simply wait for the main routine in TOS to finish writing to the ST screen, and then convert in realtime to an area set aside in Amiga chip ram to display a 16 colour screen.
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Old 25 June 2012, 02:06   #19
XDelusion
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I was trying to get Magic to run under Shape Shifter some months ago with no success.

This may well be the solution to that problem. No Magic OS per say, but access to Atari apps, yes!
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Old 25 June 2012, 08:14   #20
frank_b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankVector View Post

About Color video modes, unfortunately I'm not sure if they could work (without additional drivers, of course). The Atari hardware uses interlaced bitplanes every 16 pixels, and I'm not sure that the Amiga Playfield hardware is able to handle that
The VDI should already support contiguous bitplanes. It probably wouldn't be a huge lot of work to make the destination screen use contiguous planes or interleaved line by line. This is just a guess however. The Amiga blitter couldn't be used in an ST style screen mode either. It lacks a programmable x increment. Not that emu tos has blitter support in the VDI yet
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