IPF quality

alexh · 02 March 2009, 00:00

I wanted to ask if the Dragonflight IPF images that SoftPres have preserved were unmodified (i.e. written with a trace machine). And if not what was used to confirm correct disk dumps?

It was unusual for Thalion games to be written with trace machines and therefore difficult to work out if you have dumped correct data? Did you get dumps from multiple sources.

It is just non of the three dumps (0058, 2098, 2755) can be played to the end with WinUAE 1.5.3. (KS1.3, OCS 512k chipram + 512k slowram).

This could mean that there are bugs in the original games (probable), or that it is a problem of WinUAE + SPS DLL, or bad dumps.

dlfrsilver · 02 March 2009, 07:20

@Alexh, can you precise where is it "buggy" ? which part of the game is concerned ?

You know we have the same pb with enchanted lands, it is said to be written by an amiga. What amaze me is that this game is using a flakey bits or something equivalent,
making impossible the copy on a standard machine, even with a special hardware copy tool like Powercopy. I remember also that i submitted a dump from a brand new copy
of Trex Warrior (same kind of protection as enchanted more or less), still not preserved...

I don't know what is the pb.....

alexh · 02 March 2009, 10:05

According to the guy bugging me about it :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hasan Gündogan

There is a bug in the IPF-Version (2098). When I enter the Dungeon Mortyk, the riddlemouth does not ask for the name of the Dungeon but says "Not THAT easy, adventurers". It does not accept the answer Mortyk, Mastk or any other dungeon/temple name whatsoever.

dlfrsilver · 02 March 2009, 13:30

what language version is the IPF 2098 ?

alexh · 02 March 2009, 13:38

English

dlfrsilver · 02 March 2009, 18:33

i think the french version has also some bugs.....

alexh · 02 March 2009, 19:34

What makes you say that? Bugs in the IPF or the underlying game?

I was wondering if this was the anti-copy protection kicking in....

IFW · 02 March 2009, 22:21

The images should be identical with the retail disks.
The retail disks are duplicated for all versions.

If a game has a bug then it has a bug on the ipf.
It's a common bug/feature of many adventure/rpg games that certain events or triggers only ever work if the player does something in the expected order... I wouldn't be much surprised Df being affected by this, as this is still an issue even for very recent console titles.
The game should be played from disk and the same version to see if the exact same thing happens...
You may also want to ask whdload authors whether they had to fix anything similar...
Also play the whdload version installed from the same disk.

A savestate to see what happens before any loading etc commences at the problem area would be very useful.
Or simply a saved game.

Then it would be possible to see if:
- the game fails an additional protection check (unlikely)
- fails on emulation - unlikely as well these days, the last time this happened it turned out that there were two different releases of Great Giana Sisters during its extremely short shelf-life.
- the game simply is buggy

mr.vince · 10 March 2009, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

What makes you say that? Bugs in the IPF or the underlying game?

I was wondering if this was the anti-copy protection kicking in....

This is something I can't really imagine. I've been looking at literally hundreds of disk images for the last two months, writing dozens of them back to disk and comparing the result to the originals.

I have not found any hint on anything missing in an IPF. In fact, any IPF is the exact representation of the disk dumped using the capture tool. The only difference between the raw images and the final IPF is interpretation and structure. Because of this IPFs are much smaller than the original dumps.

We also keep the original dumps, so in case errors in representation (if any, I think this has not happend until today) could be corrected. I somehow doubt that there is anything wrong with the format. But I have seen many titles fail lately, like they did back then. Titles were rushed out like they are rushed out today, but today you have fancy online features to push the user to loading the update.

Does the person having the problem have a real copy of the game that actually works?

alexh · 16 March 2009, 13:38

I'll have to ask.

I personally have originals of this games in all languages. There is a slim chance that the person who found the bug could provide me with a "save game" close to the problem for me to test it.

As has already been said, it could be a bug in the original triggered by a particular order of events.

alexh · 12 May 2009, 20:35

I have confirmation that the only fully working game of Dragonflight is the German IPF.

All the others appear to have bugs which prevent you from finishing the game.

This could be (is?) a problem with the original data written to the disks and nothing to do with the quality of the IPF dumps.

dlfrsilver · 12 May 2009, 22:16

what are the kind of bugs reported to you ?

Can you list them please ?

IFW · 12 May 2009, 22:20

Anyone knows the version number of the German one?
Probably a later release than the one they used for localisation...

If you can point me to the bad data I can check, but since the game is working otherwise chances are:
1, protection/checksum that got somehow screwed during localisation.
2, mastering problem on the original
3, problems were noticed, and multiple versions do exist.

If anyone can provide an UK version that can be finished without any bugs then we could preserve that too.

dlfrsilver · 12 May 2009, 22:27

well if any solution or walktrhough exists, i'd be happy to verify my french version.

IFW · 12 May 2009, 22:28

Just checked: we only have one dump of the UK and French versions.

If anyone has them feel free to submit a dump - we may get lucky.

Also, can anyone actually check whether an UK original can be finished from disk...? (or at least get past the problem areas)

alexh · 13 May 2009, 00:07

Here is the correspondence:

Quote:

There is a bug in the IPF-Version (Amiga Original English). When I enter the Dungeon Mortyk, the riddle mouth does not ask for the name of the Dungeon but says "Not THAT easy, adventurers". It does not accept the answer Mortyk, Mastk or any other dungeon/temple name whatsoever. I think it is a bug and not copy protection because in the same level of the dungeon there is another riddle mouth only saying "MASTYK" which is nonsense because the dungeon's name is "MORTYK". This other riddle mouth should say "There is a Dragon ring at this place" or similar, it does so in the German DOS-Version.

Interceptor · 13 May 2009, 00:10

i thought we'd established the IPF version contains the bug, because all good UK release dumps submitted to us were mastered that way.

arent we trying to find an original UK disk that doesnt contain it?

alexh · 13 May 2009, 00:17

Somebody restarted this thread and I just thought that I would follow up that the guy who brought this to my attention had managed to complete the German IPF of Dragonflight.

IFW · 13 May 2009, 13:30

Yes, it would be nice to have a bug free UK version - if such thing was ever released...

02 March 2009, 00:00	#1
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	IPF quality I wanted to ask if the Dragonflight IPF images that SoftPres have preserved were unmodified (i.e. written with a trace machine). And if not what was used to confirm correct disk dumps? It was unusual for Thalion games to be written with trace machines and therefore difficult to work out if you have dumped correct data? Did you get dumps from multiple sources. It is just non of the three dumps (0058, 2098, 2755) can be played to the end with WinUAE 1.5.3. (KS1.3, OCS 512k chipram + 512k slowram). This could mean that there are bugs in the original games (probable), or that it is a problem of WinUAE + SPS DLL, or bad dumps.

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02 March 2009, 07:20	#2
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,473	@Alexh, can you precise where is it "buggy" ? which part of the game is concerned ? You know we have the same pb with enchanted lands, it is said to be written by an amiga. What amaze me is that this game is using a flakey bits or something equivalent, making impossible the copy on a standard machine, even with a special hardware copy tool like Powercopy. I remember also that i submitted a dump from a brand new copy of Trex Warrior (same kind of protection as enchanted more or less), still not preserved... I don't know what is the pb.....

02 March 2009, 13:30	#4
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,473	what language version is the IPF 2098 ?

02 March 2009, 13:38	#5
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	English

02 March 2009, 18:33	#6
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,473	i think the french version has also some bugs.....

02 March 2009, 19:34	#7
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	What makes you say that? Bugs in the IPF or the underlying game? I was wondering if this was the anti-copy protection kicking in....

02 March 2009, 22:21	#8
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	The images should be identical with the retail disks. The retail disks are duplicated for all versions. If a game has a bug then it has a bug on the ipf. It's a common bug/feature of many adventure/rpg games that certain events or triggers only ever work if the player does something in the expected order... I wouldn't be much surprised Df being affected by this, as this is still an issue even for very recent console titles. The game should be played from disk and the same version to see if the exact same thing happens... You may also want to ask whdload authors whether they had to fix anything similar... Also play the whdload version installed from the same disk. A savestate to see what happens before any loading etc commences at the problem area would be very useful. Or simply a saved game. Then it would be possible to see if: - the game fails an additional protection check (unlikely) - fails on emulation - unlikely as well these days, the last time this happened it turned out that there were two different releases of Great Giana Sisters during its extremely short shelf-life. - the game simply is buggy

16 March 2009, 13:38	#10
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	I'll have to ask. I personally have originals of this games in all languages. There is a slim chance that the person who found the bug could provide me with a "save game" close to the problem for me to test it. As has already been said, it could be a bug in the original triggered by a particular order of events.

12 May 2009, 20:35	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	I have confirmation that the only fully working game of Dragonflight is the German IPF. All the others appear to have bugs which prevent you from finishing the game. This could be (is?) a problem with the original data written to the disks and nothing to do with the quality of the IPF dumps.

12 May 2009, 22:16	#12
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,473	what are the kind of bugs reported to you ? Can you list them please ?

12 May 2009, 22:20	#13
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Anyone knows the version number of the German one? Probably a later release than the one they used for localisation... If you can point me to the bad data I can check, but since the game is working otherwise chances are: 1, protection/checksum that got somehow screwed during localisation. 2, mastering problem on the original 3, problems were noticed, and multiple versions do exist. If anyone can provide an UK version that can be finished without any bugs then we could preserve that too.

12 May 2009, 22:27	#14
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,473	well if any solution or walktrhough exists, i'd be happy to verify my french version.

12 May 2009, 22:28	#15
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Just checked: we only have one dump of the UK and French versions. If anyone has them feel free to submit a dump - we may get lucky. Also, can anyone actually check whether an UK original can be finished from disk...? (or at least get past the problem areas)

13 May 2009, 00:10	#17
Interceptor Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Essex, UK Posts: 414	i thought we'd established the IPF version contains the bug, because all good UK release dumps submitted to us were mastered that way. arent we trying to find an original UK disk that doesnt contain it?

13 May 2009, 00:17	#18
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,396	Somebody restarted this thread and I just thought that I would follow up that the guy who brought this to my attention had managed to complete the German IPF of Dragonflight.

13 May 2009, 13:30	#19
IFW Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: ... Age: 52 Posts: 1,838	Yes, it would be nice to have a bug free UK version - if such thing was ever released...

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