Guru 8000 000x errors with ZIP ram (A3000T)

[zimgr5]

I have a problem with ZIP ram with A3000T.

I have guru errors like 8000 0003, 8000 0004, 8000 000B.
Generally 8000 000x.
Everything is OK when no zip RAM is inserted info sockets - I can boot WB from floppy and HDD works ok.

Errors start to appear when I try to allocate first 4MB zip ram (8 chips) into pictured below sockets:

These allocated sockets are so-called 0-sockets, as they must be allocated at first.




A3000 users surely know what I am saying

So I can place seven zip chips into these 0 sockets, but when I put 8-th (last one) - I have 8000000x erros when I try to boot from Wb floppy or from hard disk with WB 3.1.
And it doesn't matter which socket from these eight I choose...as I mentioned if any 7 of them are busy everything is ok but when all eight are fulfilled - there comes an error...

Suprisingly, WB 2.04 works without this problem and recognizes all 16MB fast memory.
But 3.1 is a copy that I got from my friend.

I don't have any accelerator onboard, only 030 processor onboard.

Please help for a solution

[Jope]

What chips are you using? Can you read off the markings on the side.

You can use 1Mx4 or 256kx4 chips.

Is your DRAM type jumper set correctly?

J852
1Mx4 rams 1-2
256Kx4 rams 2-3

[zimgr5]

Thanks for response Jope
Most of zip chips are from NEC but there is one other type, here are descriptions from them

D424400V-60
9145FU002
NEC JAPAN

and other ones:
HM514492AZ8
JAPAN 9103
A0006NN

J852 was jumpered 1-2, I switched to 2-3 but still 8000 000B error when booting from floppy

[chiark]

What kickstart are you using? 3.1?

My 3000 gurus randomly with a set of 3.1 chips and zip static RAM. 2.04 is fine. 3.1 softkicked is fine. I reckon it's to do with the speed of the ROM, but have no supporting evidence for that premise

[Jope]

Try populating with only these:

D424400V-60
9145FU002
NEC JAPAN

One full bank at a time.

[zimgr5]

Originally Posted by chiark

What kickstart are you using? 3.1?

My 3000 gurus randomly with a set of 3.1 chips and zip static RAM. 2.04 is fine. 3.1 softkicked is fine. I reckon it's to do with the speed of the ROM, but have no supporting evidence for that premise

Yes, I have kickstart 3.1 !

[zimgr5]

Originally Posted by Jope

Try populating with only these:

D424400V-60
9145FU002
NEC JAPAN

One full bank at a time.

Jope, I used only NEC chips & populated 16 chips in sockets.
And now it works!
Many, many thanks

Strange, but these "other" Japan chips cannot be mixed with NEc chips. When I populated only these "other" 8 chips into banks, Wb started ok. But when then I added next 8 chips from NEC - it doesn't boot anymore


Jope, have you any idea how these NEC chips should be jumpered with J852 ? I checked and both 1-2 and 2-3 are ok (booting is fine whatever jumper is set) the only difference is with memory - Wb shows about 8MB with 2-3 and about 2 (?) with 1-2.

[chiark]

Now that's odd. Goodness only knows what's going on there... Jope, any theory behind your suggestion?

[alexh]

D424400V-60 = 1Mx4 60ns
HM514402AZ8 = 1Mx4 80ns

[chiark]

hmm... But how could KS3.1 chips (and chips alone, not the software) cause this?
I suppose I need to dig out my 3.1 chips again and start stripping it all back again. But it's working. And changing Zip RAM is a real pain in the neck...

[alexh]

Dunno for sure but I would suspect if the ZIP RAM is too slow or faulty then the Kickstart software (which will use RAM) can crash?

[alexh]

Originally Posted by zimgr5

have you any idea how these NEC chips should be jumpered with J852 ?

As I said they are 1Mx4 chips.

[zimgr5]

alexh, you are absolutely right, thanx for this info

chiark: it may be quite difficult , I got A3000D earlier and it was easy and need only my fingers to remove them, now in A3000T without pliers I couldn't remove almost any chip And 32 times to do it, checking, then reseating if wrong etc. Consider if it's worth if you are softkicking your kickstart, because solution may be somewhere else - firstly check if your chips are the same type.

[chiark]

thanks, I know it's difficult as I've done it too many times to remember now

Alex, the weird thing is that the version I'm softkicking is exactly the same as the hard version. I've ran memory tests etc and it just will not crash with the softkicked version, but is flakey with the hard version.

Weird.

[r.cade]

I also recall that the 3000 could use page mode or static column RAM, but not mixed. It identifies which you are using by the very first socket, so if you are mixing them, you can use page mode only and this must be in socket 1. (or vice-versa, it's been 15 years)

Otherwise it's unstable.

[Photon]

My first thought when I saw the title was, "bad memory or mixed memory".

There should be a buyer's guide (or re-using/salvage guide ) for Amiga RAM!

[chiark]

It's all static RAM, and it's all passed the static ram test under 2.04 and 3.1 (softkicked). I've used a utility whose name I can't remember to delve into this stuff... I'll dig it out tonight if I get a chance.

Indeed there should be a guide. I'll put something together.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by chiark

I've ran memory tests etc and it just will not crash with the softkicked version, but is flakey with the hard version.

What speed is your EPROM? Which Ramsey do you have?

What settings do you have on J150 : J151? You should try setting both to 1-2

*Notes:*
  J150, J151:   ROM Timing
        The Rom timing circuit provides four different speed settings to
        match the output enable and access timing of the system ROMs.

        To set the jumpers, determine the output enable time and access times
        for the ROMs you wish to use. The ROM must have lower value than for
        the setting you select.

        System standard ROMs have T(oe)=110ns, and T(acc)=250ns.

        CLK     J151    J150    T(oe)min        T(acc)min
        16 MHz  2-3     2-3     157ns           250ns
        16      2-3     1-2     220             312
        16      1-2     2-3     282             375
        16      1-2     1-2     345             437

        25 MHz  2-3     2-3     90ns            160ns
        25      2-3     1-2     130             200
        25      1-2     2-3     170             240
        25      1-2     1-2     210             280

  J180, J181:  ROM Compatibility jumpers
                               J180    J181
       A2000/A500 ROMs         1-2     1-2
       A3000 ROMs              2-3     2-3

[chiark]

Alex, will check tonight but in short the ROMS I have are not marked for speed in an obious manner. I jumpered them down for the slowest possible access (151&150 to 1-2) and the system would at least boot like that, but fall within 1 and 30 minutes.

RAMSEY is 04... I know that there's issues if I use a 3640 with this combo (ks2.04, ramsey 04, scram) but I've never even tried that. I wonder if the issue is also there with KS31 for some reason?