RPG recommendation

d4rk3lf · 22 May 2019, 10:45

Ok, so here's the situation:

I've never finished any of the RPG on the Amiga (on PC, I finished many), and I intend to.
Here's the list of the games I want to play and (hopefully) finish:
Might And Magic II and III, Black Crypt, Ultima 6, Eye of Beholder 1 and 2, Dungeon Master, Ishar trilogy, Ambermoon, Amberstar... etc.

I am mostly interested in fantasy/medieval themes, so no Sci Fi, or Wild West.

It can be both isometric, or pseudo 3D, or whatever...

Question:
1) In what order you think I should play these games, to get the best experience? I guess, list should be somewhat based from easy to hard (but not necessarily). You can add any game you want and that you recommend.

2) I kind of started playing Eye of Beholder 1. Got to second level, and pretty lost with the tunnel labyrinth.

Would it be cheating if I gather map from internet, or you think I should draw it myself, for the best experience? Was the map included in the box version of the game?
However, I might stop playing, until I first finish some other games (by your recommendation).

Cheers!

gimbal · 22 May 2019, 10:54

All of them are hard to really hard

Arguably Dungeon Master is the easiest to complete of the bunch, that's probably a good starting point. You may want to look up a manual to learn how the spell system works.

alexh · 22 May 2019, 10:58

Dungeon Master would be my preferred game to play first. The game is so immersive and fun and the benchmark for all other dungeon crawling RPG games.

You should definitely play Amberstar before Ambermoon. There are references in Ambermoon you only really understand once you've played Amberstar. Plus Ambermoon is a more polished experience, it's hard to want to play Amberstar once you've played Ambermoon.

Both Amber games can benefit from being played in WinUAE (you can fast forward the fight animation sequences).

If you are going to play the English version of Ambermoon, remember to install Meynaf's patch before you start.

d4rk3lf · 22 May 2019, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimbal

All of them are hard to really hard

Arguably Dungeon Master is the easiest to complete of the bunch, that's probably a good starting point. You may want to look up a manual to learn how the spell system works.

I've finished Dungeon Master 2 on PC, long, long time a go (maybe 2001).
Funny, I thought that DM is one of the hardest on the Amiga.

Isn't might and magic much easier then DM? I only played (and finished) 6,7 and 8 on PC, though.
cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

If you are going to play the English version of Ambermoon, remember to install Meynaf's patch before you start.

I am playing on real Amiga 500 with Aca 500+.
So, is that patch included in WHDLoad version of the game?
Thanks

Solo Kazuki · 22 May 2019, 11:24

Dungeon Master is not hard... Chaos Strikes Back is! I recommend You to play CSB after DM.

Map was included in EotB, but only first three levels. Here is scan available.

Meynaf patch may be or may be not included in WHDLoad version of Ambermoon, it depend what version was used for WHDLoad version.

appiah4 · 22 May 2019, 11:31

Playing Dungeon Master after Eye of the Beholder can be frustrating, it is pretty archaic in comparison in all regards. Might and Magic and Ishar are their own things and Ishar is probably the most frustratingly hard of the lot you mention. I would probably go Dungeon Master -> M&M 3 (skip 2 I'd say) -> EOB 1 -> EOB 2 -> Ishar 1/2/3 Of these, I did not finish the Ishar games and M&M3, so I don't know how good their endgames are.

I wouldn't play Ultima VI on the Amiga to be honest. Amber games, I never played so I can't comment.

d4rk3lf · 22 May 2019, 11:43

@Solo Kazuki
Wow, thanks for that scan. Look great.
Never heard about Chaos Strikes Back. Looked at youtube now. Look great, and I like those big enemy sprites. If it's so hard, I might not play it after the DM, but prehaps, after I finish some easier rpg's.

@appiah4
Thanks.
--------------------

@Everybody

Dungeon Master then is.

Is DM include a map in the box version? Do I need a map at all (or I can memorize)? I don't remember I needed a map while playing DM2 on PC.

Solo Kazuki · 22 May 2019, 11:49

Chaos Strikes Back is Dungeon Master addon, that's why i recommend it after Dungeon Master. It is Dungeon Master for hardcore gamers so it is hard.

d4rk3lf · 22 May 2019, 12:05

Oh... I'll see then...
Depends on the impression DM left on me. I might want to play it right away, or I might decide to leave it for later.

Solo Kazuki · 22 May 2019, 12:27

There are also some not mentioned interesting Fantasy RPGs which i also recommend:
Abandoned Places
Abandoned Places II
Crystal Dragon
Knightmare
Shadowlands

alexh · 22 May 2019, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

So, is that patch included in WHDLoad version of the game? Thanks

No. The WHDload version is IMO a waste of time. WHDload installs are to add HD install capability and to make it work with faster processors, fix bugs. But the original v1.07 (English) had a built in HD installer and worked on faster processors and the WHDload patch doesn't fix any of the bugs *AND* it slows down the system. I think it was done just to say it had been done.

malko · 22 May 2019, 13:37

DM is a great game. One of the "must be played" game for all RPG fan.
I woudn't say it's an easy one but like all RPG games you will have to "train" your team.
As far as i remember, BitD, even with my (strong) team, defeating the "Lord of Chaos" was not so easy. But I did enjoy the fight

The add-on (Chaos strikes back) and the second game (The legend of Skullkeep) are also cool.

It was not mentioned before, but there is also "The faery tale adventure" that you can add to your list. Open world instead of dungeon crawler. Worth the play.
I did try "Obitus", but don't remember it well, so, no opinion. Maybe someone else did play it ?

gimbal · 22 May 2019, 14:00

You have to use your imagination a little to call Obitus an RPG, it has some mild RPG elements to it for sure. Audio-visually it's a beauty but it's a game for people who like to draw maps of mazes. Good god the mazes...

alexh · 22 May 2019, 15:43

Other good RPGs

Legends of Valour
Captive
Liberation (Captive II)

gimbal · 22 May 2019, 15:46

Yes but the latter two fail the "no sci-fi" restriction

meynaf · 22 May 2019, 17:18

Dungeon Master 2 is somewhat harder than first DM, so if you finished it, you may find DM1 easier.
Eye of the Beholder 1 is quite easy, maybe even easier than DM. EOB2 isn't, though.
If you've played Albion on the PC, Ambermoon is similar. Amberstar is previous version of the engine, for me worth playing even after Ambermoon. Even older is Dragonflight - but one that i couldn't finish (maybe one day).
Black Crypt can be finished but is very unforgiving. Found it harder than Chaos Strikes Back.
Ishar trilogy isn't that hard, appears in the middle. I could finish them without help.
Ultima 6 can seem easy at start but it is difficult to get far into the game (i didn't). Sure an automap would have helped...
Kightmare is quite hard ; you can get far but finishing it without some sort of walkthru is another story (if you like Captive, same engine here).

Not already mentioned here are :
- Bloodwych - very basic and not difficult but very big dungeon
- Evil's doom - one of the best, albeit not very easy
- Legacy of Sorasil - difficult to get into, but worth it once done

Solo Kazuki · 22 May 2019, 21:11

Black Crypt is far much easier than Chaos Strikes Back. Finished Black Crypt many times, even doing "full clear" - all monster generators have limited quantity.

Bloodwych have data disk, so i propose also this.

About Evil's Doom it can be problem because he have A500 (no AGA)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4rk3lf

I am playing on real Amiga 500 with Aca 500+.

BarryB · 22 May 2019, 23:05

Fancy any of the classic SSI games: Champions of Krynn, Death Knights of Krynn, Dark Queen of Krynn, Pool Of Radiance, Curse Of The Azure Bonds, Secret Of The Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, Gateway To The Savage Frontier, Treasures Of The Savage Frontier.

Or Westwoods Eye of the Beholder I & II, or Sir-Techs Wizardry: Bane Of The Cosmic Forge?

And don't forget The Bard's Tale I, II & III or Dragon Wars or Realms Of Arkania: Blade Of Destiny!

Quite a few RPG's there!

demoniac · 23 May 2019, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by appiah4

M&M 3 (skip 2 I'd say)

Having beaten both of them, I actually liked M&M II more than III. Plus, I would just play PC version of M&M III as the Amiga is a straight port.

005AGIMA · 23 May 2019, 04:26

+1 for Captive. God that game is awesome!

22 May 2019, 10:45	#1
d4rk3lf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia Posts: 1,654	RPG recommendation Ok, so here's the situation: I've never finished any of the RPG on the Amiga (on PC, I finished many), and I intend to. Here's the list of the games I want to play and (hopefully) finish: Might And Magic II and III, Black Crypt, Ultima 6, Eye of Beholder 1 and 2, Dungeon Master, Ishar trilogy, Ambermoon, Amberstar... etc. I am mostly interested in fantasy/medieval themes, so no Sci Fi, or Wild West. It can be both isometric, or pseudo 3D, or whatever... Question: 1) In what order you think I should play these games, to get the best experience? I guess, list should be somewhat based from easy to hard (but not necessarily). You can add any game you want and that you recommend. 2) I kind of started playing Eye of Beholder 1. Got to second level, and pretty lost with the tunnel labyrinth. Would it be cheating if I gather map from internet, or you think I should draw it myself, for the best experience? Was the map included in the box version of the game? However, I might stop playing, until I first finish some other games (by your recommendation). Cheers!

22 May 2019, 11:24	#5
Solo Kazuki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 1,302	Dungeon Master is not hard... Chaos Strikes Back is! I recommend You to play CSB after DM. Map was included in EotB, but only first three levels. Here is scan available. Meynaf patch may be or may be not included in WHDLoad version of Ambermoon, it depend what version was used for WHDLoad version. Last edited by Solo Kazuki; 22 May 2019 at 11:30.

22 May 2019, 13:37	#12
malko Ex nihilo nihil Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: CH Posts: 4,911	DM is a great game. One of the "must be played" game for all RPG fan. I woudn't say it's an easy one but like all RPG games you will have to "train" your team. As far as i remember, BitD, even with my (strong) team, defeating the "Lord of Chaos" was not so easy. But I did enjoy the fight The add-on (Chaos strikes back) and the second game (The legend of Skullkeep) are also cool. It was not mentioned before, but there is also "The faery tale adventure" that you can add to your list. Open world instead of dungeon crawler. Worth the play. I did try "Obitus", but don't remember it well, so, no opinion. Maybe someone else did play it ? Last edited by malko; 24 July 2019 at 13:06. Reason: changed BiT -> BitD

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22 May 2019, 10:54	#2
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,929	All of them are hard to really hard Arguably Dungeon Master is the easiest to complete of the bunch, that's probably a good starting point. You may want to look up a manual to learn how the spell system works.

22 May 2019, 10:58	#3
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,367	Dungeon Master would be my preferred game to play first. The game is so immersive and fun and the benchmark for all other dungeon crawling RPG games. You should definitely play Amberstar before Ambermoon. There are references in Ambermoon you only really understand once you've played Amberstar. Plus Ambermoon is a more polished experience, it's hard to want to play Amberstar once you've played Ambermoon. Both Amber games can benefit from being played in WinUAE (you can fast forward the fight animation sequences). If you are going to play the English version of Ambermoon, remember to install Meynaf's patch before you start.

22 May 2019, 11:31	#6
appiah4 Registered User Join Date: May 2015 Location: Somewhere in Time Posts: 492	Playing Dungeon Master after Eye of the Beholder can be frustrating, it is pretty archaic in comparison in all regards. Might and Magic and Ishar are their own things and Ishar is probably the most frustratingly hard of the lot you mention. I would probably go Dungeon Master -> M&M 3 (skip 2 I'd say) -> EOB 1 -> EOB 2 -> Ishar 1/2/3 Of these, I did not finish the Ishar games and M&M3, so I don't know how good their endgames are. I wouldn't play Ultima VI on the Amiga to be honest. Amber games, I never played so I can't comment.

22 May 2019, 11:43	#7
d4rk3lf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia Posts: 1,654	@Solo Kazuki Wow, thanks for that scan. Look great. Never heard about Chaos Strikes Back. Looked at youtube now. Look great, and I like those big enemy sprites. If it's so hard, I might not play it after the DM, but prehaps, after I finish some easier rpg's. @appiah4 Thanks. -------------------- @Everybody Dungeon Master then is. Is DM include a map in the box version? Do I need a map at all (or I can memorize)? I don't remember I needed a map while playing DM2 on PC.

22 May 2019, 11:49	#8
Solo Kazuki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 1,302	Chaos Strikes Back is Dungeon Master addon, that's why i recommend it after Dungeon Master. It is Dungeon Master for hardcore gamers so it is hard.

22 May 2019, 12:05	#9
d4rk3lf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia Posts: 1,654	Oh... I'll see then... Depends on the impression DM left on me. I might want to play it right away, or I might decide to leave it for later.

22 May 2019, 12:27	#10
Solo Kazuki Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Poland Posts: 1,302	There are also some not mentioned interesting Fantasy RPGs which i also recommend: Abandoned Places Abandoned Places II Crystal Dragon Knightmare Shadowlands

22 May 2019, 14:00	#13
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,929	You have to use your imagination a little to call Obitus an RPG, it has some mild RPG elements to it for sure. Audio-visually it's a beauty but it's a game for people who like to draw maps of mazes. Good god the mazes...

22 May 2019, 15:43	#14
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,367	Other good RPGs Legends of Valour Captive Liberation (Captive II)

22 May 2019, 15:46	#15
gimbal cheeky scoundrel Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Spijkenisse/Netherlands Age: 42 Posts: 6,929	Yes but the latter two fail the "no sci-fi" restriction

22 May 2019, 17:18	#16
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,329	Dungeon Master 2 is somewhat harder than first DM, so if you finished it, you may find DM1 easier. Eye of the Beholder 1 is quite easy, maybe even easier than DM. EOB2 isn't, though. If you've played Albion on the PC, Ambermoon is similar. Amberstar is previous version of the engine, for me worth playing even after Ambermoon. Even older is Dragonflight - but one that i couldn't finish (maybe one day). Black Crypt can be finished but is very unforgiving. Found it harder than Chaos Strikes Back. Ishar trilogy isn't that hard, appears in the middle. I could finish them without help. Ultima 6 can seem easy at start but it is difficult to get far into the game (i didn't). Sure an automap would have helped... Kightmare is quite hard ; you can get far but finishing it without some sort of walkthru is another story (if you like Captive, same engine here). Not already mentioned here are : - Bloodwych - very basic and not difficult but very big dungeon - Evil's doom - one of the best, albeit not very easy - Legacy of Sorasil - difficult to get into, but worth it once done

22 May 2019, 23:05	#18
BarryB Amigaholic Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: UK Posts: 4,716	Fancy any of the classic SSI games: Champions of Krynn, Death Knights of Krynn, Dark Queen of Krynn, Pool Of Radiance, Curse Of The Azure Bonds, Secret Of The Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, Gateway To The Savage Frontier, Treasures Of The Savage Frontier. Or Westwoods Eye of the Beholder I & II, or Sir-Techs Wizardry: Bane Of The Cosmic Forge? And don't forget The Bard's Tale I, II & III or Dragon Wars or Realms Of Arkania: Blade Of Destiny! Quite a few RPG's there!

23 May 2019, 04:26	#20
005AGIMA Re-loading. Please wait. Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Perth, Australia & England Age: 49 Posts: 472	+1 for Captive. God that game is awesome!

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