Strange problem with ClassicWB 3.9 on SFS or PFS boot partition

Hi, I'm from Italy. I am a great fan of Amiga and of course I like ClassicWB very much! I have got 3 Amigas 1200 with 3 different brand large hard drives (2 of 40 GB and 1 of 60GB) and the problem is the same:
With ClassicWB 3.9 in SFS and PFS3DS filesystem they don't boot and they give me a software failure message after a few blinking of power led (all ok when I connect my hard disk drives on winuae).
Now I would like to have your support because I've got this problem only with ClassicWB 3.9 and only when I try to boot this on my boot partition in real Amiga 1200 formatted with SFS 1.279 or PFS 5.3 (direct scsi version). I have no problem at all since my boot partition was formatted in FFS filesystem.
I have read lots of information about these topics and and I did a lot of tests...but I was not lucky!
I try to explain my situation:
Installing ClassicWB 3.9 I follow the way "from scratch" described by Bloodwych in his site, and I create my System.zip file in Winuae with my original cd of AmigaOS 3.9 (and of course updated that with BB1 and BB2 plus italian locale BB2 update) and then I put (with DOPUS) the right patched scsi.device file for A1200IDE (renaming it scsi.device) in devs drawer. Then I make my System.zip file with DOPUS in winuae (all in Amiga ambient). Then I transfer System.zip on my 4GB compact flash card and put that in my compact flash adapter on my real Amiga 1200. Boot from floppy 3.1 Workbench and transfer System.zip file in my DH0: boot partition (1GB) on my real "large" hard disk drive in my Amiga. Then I boot Amiga from floppy disk created from Bloodwych Real Amiga Install.adf and all the process works very well. But only when my boot partition is SFS or PFS3DS my Amiga wont boot at all (FFS works)!
The normal installation of AmigaOS 3.9 from CD works well.
All ClassicWB 3.1 ADVSP and FULL edition works well on FFS, SFS and PFS formatted (1GB) boot partition (using the same procedure I described above).
I have a Phase5 Blizzard 1230 MKIV accelerator card (maprom enabled) + scsi kit from Phase5 with a total amount of 64 MB ram. Of course I've got 3.1 rom on my A1200. My hard disk drive is actually connected to the IDE standard internal controller of my Amiga 1200.
I put all the filesystem type in the RDB of my hard disk in the right mode, I hope.
Excuse me for this long post but the problem is very strange because it happens only with ClassicWB 3.9 and only with a boot partition formatted in SFS or PFS3DS filesystem.

A special thanks to Bloodwych for his wonderful piece of software which enhances our Amiga in a beautiful way!
Congratulations for this great forum!
Thank you all for your precious support!


Best Regards
Damiano

[mfilos]

This is what I call informative post with detailed info
Welcome to EAB btw mate.

The way I see it, it's definitely an issue with the SCSI.device.
Bloodwych's guide is using SCSI.device 43.24 but this... on ClassicWB 3.1 installations.

What differs is that on CWB3.1, there is a LoadModule Devs:scsi.device in Startup-Sequence, while on CWB3.9 there isn't. So regardless if you put the scsi.device in Devs: the device won't load.

This happens because OS3.9 BB2 loads scsi.device 43.43 which afaik has issues with disks over 4GB. (WinUAE will never have an issue and that's why it loads just fine there).

Imho you can get an archive of mine where I gathered some scsi.devices. Info here.

I suggest you copying Doobrey's SCSI.device 44.2 into Devs: (as scsi.device) and then issue the command:

C:LoadModule Devs:scsi.device

as first line in your Startup-Sequence.

Also... if you don't use Idefix or Squirrel SCSI you can comment out EVERY line (by putting an ";") from:

;Start OS3.9 Checks
...
...till ...
...
;End OS3.9 Checks

and just add the following SetPatch declaration instead:

C:SetPatch SKIPROMMODULES "scsi.device" QUIET

Normaly the system will use the newest scsi.device then reboot and then it will load just fine.
SetPatch will skip the updated 43.43 scsi.device of BB2 (since we told it to skip it - and why wouldn't we? We use the newest 44.2 instead ) but it will load every other updated module \o/

Tell us how it goes so we can help you out more in case it won't work

[Toni Wilen]

all ok when I connect my hard disk drives on winuae

Did you use IDE emulation? Use A1200 config, make sure it says "A1200" in chipset extra (so that correct IDE hardware is emulated), also make sure you use A1200 ROM image (Not A4000). Add the hardfile/drive, set controller type from UAE to IDE0.

Does it now crash in WinUAE too? If not, run WinUAE with -log command line parameter, does it complain about max transfer in the log? (Use 2.4.0 or later)

Thank you all very much!
I made another set of tests. I try to set-up only one boot partition in FFS on my large hd, but I have have noticed that ClassicWB 3.9 (only this) won't boot at all. Only difference it is my power led (when boot partition is FFS) don't blink but is normally powered on. But ClassicWB 3.9 don't boot!

@mfilos
I have followed your instructions carefully. I tried to replace scsi.device in Devs: with the ones you suggested to me and I modified the startup-sequence as you suggested to me, but I think that the command LoadModule is non recognized by ClassicWB 3.9 in fact the system won't boot at all and It show me an AmigaDOS screen like this:

C:LoadModule: Unknown command
C:LoadModule failed returncode 10

@Toni Wilen
In Winuae I use a configuration as closely as possible to that of my real Amiga 1200 (so A1200 as chipset extra and so on) but I noticed 2 type of behaviors when I set the controller type as IDE0:
- My System.hdf file (exactly the same before I zip them) on IDE0 makes Winuae flashing in red and don't boot at all.
- My real hard disk drive on IDE0 works perfectly in Winuae.

I attach the Winuae log file.


Finally I want to inform you about one thing that I forgot to mention yesterday:
If before to create my System.zip I install in the ClassicWB 3.9 the IdeFix software provided in the Bloodwych package, my system boots. But It show me a very bad desktop from the graphical point of view. And typing "version scsi.device" on a shell I read It is the 40.xx version! Of course when I uninstall IdeFix software the system returns on not booting situation.
Very very strange for me!
I don't understand!

Many thanks
Damiano

[mfilos]

Apparently LoadModule command is not present.
Try downloading it from Aminet and report back (http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/LoadModule)

Thanks mfilos, I followed your suggest and I downloaded the LoadModule software (last version from Aminet). Then I prepared a new System.zip file in my pc using Winuae with LoadModule script in C: and I modified Startup-Sequence with the string you suggested to me. Then I formatted my real hard drive in Amiga, booting partition DH0: with SFS 1.279 (because I still have all SFS, FFS and PFS3DS in my RDB). And then I put System.zip in DH0: (now SFS formatted) and I installed ClassicWB 3.9 in my DH0: using the real floppy "from scratch".
All the installation process went very well, but on the first boot Amiga told me that:
DH0: Not a DOS disk!
So no booting at all.
Then I return back to FFS DH0: installing all again: then now work. But I made another lot of test and I noticed that trying to change the types of scsi.device provided (44.2 from Doobrey, 43.46b6 from Cosmos) the system (in FFS) boots correctly (with string C.LoadModule Devs:scsi.device in the first line of Startup-Sequence) and correctly It changes the scsi.device at the time.
So, with the scsi.devices you suggested to me, I try to make another not booting partition (DH1: name Work for example) and , after creating that (under or beyond 4 GB it has the same behaviour), when I try to re-boot the system in order to format this new partition, I noticed that the system won't boot at all!
So I have to boot from a Workbench 3.1 Install floppy disk, and with HDToolbox I have to delete this new partition. After that my Amiga restart to boot correctly! But only with a booting FFS DH0: partition. What a pity...

I really would like to have my boot partition formatted with a most modern and performance filesystem like SFS 1.279 or PFS3DS 18.5!

Have you got any other tips for me?

Really thanks!
Damiano

[johnim]

make a boot partition 500mb no bigger needed

Yes, I know that. But my problem still remains. I made a boot partition of 1GB for my tests, and I think 1GB or 500MB the problem is the same.
I really would like to stop working in FFS filesystem, in order to avoid problems like lost partition, validating system and so on...
Also for speed and reliability of SFS and PFS!

[johnim]

if you want to start from scratch see my guides

cwb3.9

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=61180

sfs

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=61048

Hello to all,
I read your guides johnim and I realized that I had made the whole process properly.
Out of curiosity I tried again to re-set SFS 1.279 on my boot partition of my large hard disk, but nothing to do, with ClassicWB 3.9 right installed...at startup my A1200 says "not a dos disk"...and no boot at all.
So I decided to re-make the entire process (SFS in RDB, boot partition in SFS and right formatted with SFSformat) on my little 170MB Western Digital very old hard disk:
It works very very well!!! It boots and work great with SFS filesystem!!! The entire system is very stable too!!!

So I think there is a problem with real large hard drives only on ClassicWB 3.9 and only with partitions in SFS or PFS3DS filesystems.

Did any of you have noticed this?

Many thanks to you all!
Damiano

[mfilos]

I've been using SFS on my ClassicWB3.9 installation on both my A600 and A4000 using in both SCSI.device from Doobrey (44.2)

A600 is using an 16GB CF card with 1GB as System partition and 15GB as Work partition.
A4000 is using an 80GB 2.5" HD with 1GB System partition and haven't set the rest partitioning scheme but setting an 79GB partition works just fine.

It makes me wonder if your Hard Drive has some issues with these filesystems but it can't be the case.

Anyway check your PM. I'd like to try helping you out more thoroughly.

[johnim]

as marios said its fine with bigger drive i use 20gb on 1 1200 40gb on another and 80gb on another 1200

Hi guys, I made another set of tests.

I realized that by forcing the loading (by LoadModule) of an alternative scsi.device in the startup-sequence the system boots (1 reboot for the BB2 modules and 1 reboot for the scsi.device alternative module) and works very well also in my "large" IDE hard drives (special thanks to mfilos for the startup-sequence). This is with a bootable partition about 1GB or so on (of course within the first 4GB of hard disk space). No matter if it is a SFS, PFS3DS or FFS formatted partition. It works!

But with the ClassicWB 3.9 original startup-sequence the system only boots and works if I make a bootable little partition, I mean about 500MB or a little more(the system in effect reboots only 1 time at a cold startup). No matter if it is a SFS, PFS3DS or FFS formatted partition. It works!

So in my case I must write a line in startup-sequence in order to force loading of an alternative scsi.device at bootstrap, for working good. And this is only with ClassicWB 3.9, in fact using a ClassicWB 3.1 (or 3.0) workbench based (like FULL or ADVSP or so on) the LoadModule line (and also the LoadModule module in C drawer) it is already present in the startup sequence.

Tell me about your opinion about this. I think it is a very interesting difference (which we can talk about it) between these two great workbench enhancements, isn't it?

Thank you very much!
Damiano

[mfilos]

Glad you got it working mate

Indeed ClassicWB 3.1 versions have LoadModule present and an IF "scsi.device exists on Devs" then Load it.
ClassicWB 3.9 didn't have this feature, cause you could have put it via installing BB3 and BB4 unofficial BoingBags.
By default ClassicWB 3.9 comes with BB2 which means ROM Update and scsi.device 43.43.
You still need to update to a better version of scsi.device to use larger than 4GB hard drive.

[Bloodwych]

Just thought I'd chip in some extra info, some already covered above. Thanks for all your help to people by the way mfilos, much appreciated. :)

OS3.5 and 3.9 have large hard drive support built-in and a newer fast file system supporting >4GB. They do that with the double boot updating the ROM on cold boot. That's why I don't add LoadModule to those packs, but if people want to use another hard drive scsi.device driver provided then they are welcome too. I think I provide them all in the "MyFiles/Install" drawer, including alternative filesystems supporting large hard drives. You don't need both, so choose one method and disable the other in the Startup-Sequence. Depends what works best for your hardware setup.

More info here: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32256

The lower ClassicWB packs all have LoadModule added to essentially do what OS35 and 39 already do by default - update the scsi.device driver to support >4GB drives and file systems. This is done by copying an scsi.device to the DH0:Devs drawer, as shown on the tutorial webpage:

http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/tutorials.htm

In both Workbenches, you can actually have up to 8GB support using "direct-scsi" without updating the ROM and using the double boot; the A1200 IDE controller can access up to 8GB using this method - more explained in the above thread (Solutions 2 and 3)

[Bamiga2002]

If you have a CF card that's 4Gb or less just use the normal PFS3-version, not PFS3ds.