2-button games and what the 2nd button does

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by TCD

Why not link to the original thread here on EAB? http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57540

Because list on PPA is with more entries and with more control descriptions (~80% of entries)? Please mind that EAB list is not mine and I cannot edit it. Not to mention that list was last time modified about two years ago.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

Up for jump really doesn't work well on a joypad so button 2 for jump is a good option to have here

This. I grew up using joysticks on 8-bits and having up for jump, but as soon as I started playing with a pad, having a button for jump felt more natural. I use both pads and joysticks on the Amiga, but mostly pads it has to be said, and having the option to use a button for jump is often the difference between be playing a game and not bothering.

[nikosidis]

Button for jump does not feel more natural to me. It complicates the controls.
I have 2 joysticks that I made myself where I have connected a button to joystick "up". That way I can choose in any game if I like to use "up" or button.
In some games like "Track and Field" where you have to move the joystick fast, left, right, jump button is nice.
Some games where you have to be very precise like "Benefactor". Button for "jump" is nice.

[Mixel]

With a good stick I prefer up to jump. With a pad I always prefer button to jump. (I use button2 for jump in CMO) you can’t put anything too exciting on B2 because you can’t rely on everyone having the button. All pads have >1 button but not all sticks do do so it makes sense to treat it more as a convenience for pad users. (Also considering most players using emulation are likely using a pad, and potentially one with a bad dpad like the xbox360 controller!) B2 jump is the most accessibility friendly choice you can make for platform games.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

Me too. Kind of makes me wonder if the 2nd button is really worth having save for a dozen or so games.

It's much more than dozen, check my list. Just mention.

[jotd]

At the time I saw no issue (with Wico joystick) but I can stll think of examples:

- Tearaway Thomas: uses fire for jump because character doesn't shoot or anything. I don't think it's a problem...
- Prince Of Persia: I remember having to switch to keyboard because if you miss one diagonal it can be lethal...

It's not a problem of too many buttons: most joysticks had 1 button and game makers adapted/created their amiga games that way. But if you take Toki or Ghosts'n'Goblins, up for jump limits the gameplay. I remember raging against the fact that Toki jumped instead of shooting enemies up (and Toki died)...

Also 2-button adaptation in that case meant that the games were able to jump when over ladders (on the ground, ready to climb) when it was impossible and sometimes you climbed the ladder to try jump to avoid a shot... and you got killed

For the extremists, remember that those multi-button fixes are optional...

[TCD]

Originally Posted by jotd

For the extremists, remember that those multi-button fixes are optional...

It might also help to just try it. I didn't like twin stick shooters because I didn't like to use both sticks at the same time. Can't remember which game made me try it but now I really enjoy having one stick for moving and one stick for shooting.

[phx]

Originally Posted by nikosidis

Button for jump does not feel more natural to me. It complicates the controls.

Exactly!

I understand that when playing with a JoyPAD, using digi-pad Up to jump is annoying. But playing with a Joypad makes most games harder to control than with Joystick anyway.

When using a JoySTICK, then jumping with the Up-direction is just perfect! You get best control and precision. It is one flow of movement, when rotating the joystick from right over up-right and up to up-left, when you're running right and want to jump onto a platform on top of you.

Of course, on a pad you can't even do such rotating moves...

[roondar]

On the topic of using up to jump in general, well... I've never really had a problem doing so. In fact, on arcade sticks (those wider arcade sticks with both hands being separate), I generally find -to this day- that using a button to jump usually makes things harder rather than easier. In fact, I've long been convinced that this is the real reason for Arcade games to go this route in the first place. Raises the skill ceiling and thus more quarters get eaten

On a gamepad, using a button to jump is pretty much always clearly the better option, but that's primarily because d-pads suck at directional control.

On a handheld joystick, well... I've both used buttons to jump on them and used up to jump on them. And honestly, I feel this is 100% personal preference (further influenced by what people are used to, considering that the most used controllers over the past decades have been gamepads with a button-to-jump scheme), rather than one really being better than the other.

For instance, I tried those annoying 'jump around the platform' sections in Turrican I/II with a modified stick that had a button for jumping. IMHO they became even harder that way. Certainly not easier or less annoying. Others (such as at least TCD in this thread) feel that using a jump button makes them easier. Different strokes for different people

So in conclusion, I'd say that having up to jump is no problem, nor is having a button to jump. Ideally, where possible/relevant, joystick controlled games should offer both

[TCD]

Originally Posted by roondar

For instance, I tried those annoying 'jump around the platform' sections in Turrican I/II with a modified stick that had a button for jumping. IMHO they became even harder that way. Certainly not easier or less annoying. Others (such as at least TCD in this thread) feel that using a jump button makes them easier. Different strokes for different people

Maybe you are on to something there I've never tried it with a 2 button joystick, only with a gamepad. In general your sentiment is exactly right: Use what feels the best to you. Still playing FPS with a gamepad is wrong

[Swevicus]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

Please see here, most of actions are described.
https://www.ppa.pl/forum/strefa-gier...cej-przyciskow


Probably that's why You don't know about my almost complete (!) list of games with 2 or more buttons supported.


hold down + 2nd button to change weapon in WHDLoad version


You must change control to 2 buttons in options


It's just module, not wingman

I mentioned in my original post I wasn't including WHDLoad versions since most games running under it have been patched to support multiple buttons - I made this thread to cover 2-button functionality in native releases ONLY.

[Solo Kazuki]

Originally Posted by Swevicus

I mentioned in my original post I wasn't including WHDLoad versions since most games running under it have been patched to support multiple buttons - I made this thread to cover 2-button functionality in native releases ONLY.

Native support is just without (WHDLoad) comment. I think it's not a problem find such games.


Of course You can take entries from my list if You want. It can be little easier and faster than finding Yourself.

[kremiso]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

Because list on PPA is with more entries and with more control descriptions (~80% of entries)? Please mind that EAB list is not mine and I cannot edit it. Not to mention that list was last time modified about two years ago.

thanks for that list
maybe we can contribute with some new finds too

here, Woodys World seems not mentioned yet
in the options screen you can set also two buttons
i haven't tested what the second button does btw

[Solo Kazuki]

Thanks. Of course any contribution is welcomed. I'll check Woody's World and add it with next list update.