Creating games with Backbone - Step by Step for beginners! - Page 6

Retro1234 · 06 January 2015, 15:28

BBmain.LIB is just some extension the author of backbone renamed - If it runs from AMOS then the extensions are there - You need to run the Compiler from Amos
But like I say there wont be any speed increase if thats what you hope for...........

BackBone uses screen copy for the Scolling -
Remove all the Wait VBL

and with FBLIT - you might get some strange results

hipoonios · 06 January 2015, 16:21

Run the compiler from Amos! That does the trick!

Yes, I know... No speed increase by just compile it with AMOS instead. I just wondered if someone who knows AMOS more than me could find a way to speed up the games by just do some small changes to the code.

But i think it is as you saying. The code is big and complex so most of the it needs to be written from scratch. Well, now we can at least do some small changes to our games. Like make the score counter to reset after death should be no problem.

RedskullDC: So now it would be useful with a hacked version that does not delete the source from RAM!

Leon · 07 January 2015, 01:17

We should forget the Backbone and all limitations and prepare bounty for [ Show youtube player ]. This is the last hope for us.

hipoonios · 07 January 2015, 05:59

Yup, that video have been posted a few times in the thread now. It looks very promising. I will be happy to support him once it is out. But then will a demo be released? No one knows.. I think he should give us little more information. I WANT IT NOW! Because i want to start with my next game very soon

nobody · 07 January 2015, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

Yup, that video have been posted a few times in the thread now. It looks very promising. I will be happy to support him once it is out. But then will a demo be released? No one knows.. I think he should give us little more information. I WANT IT NOW! Because i want to start with my next game very soon

Would be nice to have this but more than 3 months passed and i don't see any progress or news about it, even though program looked almost finished in the video.

davideo · 07 January 2015, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

I managed to rip the Amos code that Backbone temporary saves to RAM: before it compiles.

With this way, we can add some things to our games that Backbone can't do and fix some of the bugs. Like make the score counter reset after game over, have looping animations, nicer copper backgrounds etc etc...

I've had a quick look at the source and surely all that needs to be done for the score is to reset it to 0

In the section that starts ALLAGAIN: just after LIVES=MXLIVES
Insert SCORE=0

I've tried it but can't get it to compile. It complains of missing extension.

Leon · 08 January 2015, 01:19

Two years ago I've wrote a long article about Backbone.
If someone would be interested in translating my article into English I get my permission.
BTW. Ironclaw sent greetings to all of you.

hipoonios · 08 January 2015, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobody

Would be nice to have this but more than 3 months passed and i don't see any progress or news about it, even though program looked almost finished in the video.

I sent a message to the developer on Youtube two days ago, asking him for some more information. But no reply so far

hipoonios · 08 January 2015, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by davideo

I've had a quick look at the source and surely all that needs to be done for the score is to reset it to 0

In the section that starts ALLAGAIN: just after LIVES=MXLIVES
Insert SCORE=0

I've tried it but can't get it to compile. It complains of missing extension.

Thanks for that! Will try it if i ever do a new game with Backbone. I also had problems to compile it. But it worked if i compiled it from Amos. As suggested earlier in this thread.

RedskullDC · 08 January 2015, 08:26

Hi Leon, et al.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Two years ago I've wrote a long article about Backbone.
If someone would be interested in translating my article into English I get my permission.

I loaded your article using Chrome with translate mode on.
Perfectly understandable!

Cheers,
Red

nobody · 08 January 2015, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

I sent a message to the developer on Youtube two days ago, asking him for some more information. But no reply so far

I think it's also 25 fps, AGA, 68030/040 engine and i am sure games will not run smooth in A500/1200 or not run at all. I hope i am wrong about it.
Let's face the truth then, to have a really good A500 68000 game with good graphics and music and gameplay, not some public domain stuff with 8x8 sprite it needs to be done the old way, a good coder, an artist and a musician must be there and work 6 months or so for the project. That's why they made all in assembly before and not AMOS or some other strange C-like basic that only uses 40-50% of the system at best.

hipoonios · 08 January 2015, 14:29

Yes, AMOS can't compete with Assembler of course. BUT AMOS CAN do fast 50 fps scrolling.

http://hol.abime.net/5809
http://hol.abime.net/5818

Maybe not the best examples... But these games runs fast and smooth on a standard A500 and they are both made in AMOS.

Retro1234 · 08 January 2015, 14:43

Ive had some strange messages - you know who you are

I have NOTHING to do with BackBone or Reality
Im writing my OWN engine and it not finished and its for my OWN fun.

You can try the mayhem in monsterland demo in the Zone - It uses a 32 colour screen
and the size of the Sprite makes no difference - to an extent

or see video below.

[ Show youtube player ]

Also Big Thanks to all the people that have given me advice and over the years - You know who you are

Cylon · 10 January 2015, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

Yes, I know... No speed increase by just compile it with AMOS instead. I just wondered if someone who knows AMOS more than me could find a way to speed up the games by just do some small changes to the code.

There is LOT of things to optimize AFAIK. I just had a "quick" look at it and it seems to do hell lot of repetitive multiplications and divisions, even inside loops were none of the variables change, like most of the SX*BS (means ScreensizeX*BlockSize is done alot, also the /BS (/16) is beeing done tons of times.
Many of the code of the OBJ... procedures are also redundant.

I believe there are at least a few frames per second buried in.

hipoonios · 22 January 2015, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

I sent a message to the developer on Youtube two days ago, asking him for some more information. But no reply so far

Finally he replies:

Quote:

Hi Mikael,

thanks for your interest, is greatly appreciated. My intention was to release a Preview version (very limited but functional) before the end of 2014 but I found myself with very little time for development. I continue with it but it could take a bit more until I release this preview.

The idea is as you say to give an alternative to Backbone. Backbone is quite good and full of features but the games feel slow and old and I wanted to develop something that feels more Amiga like

I hope to bring good news soon.
Thanks,

Carlos

So the project is not canceled!

Samurai_Crow · 22 January 2015, 17:56

AMOS compiler does bit shift optimization on multiplies by powers of two and they are faster than using shift instructions from an extension due to the inefficient calling convention of the compiler.

Mrs Beanbag · 22 January 2015, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow

AMOS compiler does bit shift optimization on multiplies by powers of two and they are faster than using shift instructions from an extension due to the inefficient calling convention of the compiler.

indeed, this has caught me out before, because for divide by 2 the behaviour is different from a simple bit shift, so your compiled program may not work exactly the same way!

nobody · 23 January 2015, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

Finally he replies:

So the project is not canceled!

Good news because backbone is awful.

Lemming880 · 15 February 2015, 16:48

For those who missed it, I also made a Backbone game: Boxx 2.

Info: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76523

Lonewolf10 · 21 February 2015, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipoonios

Thanks for that! Will try it if i ever do a new game with Backbone. I also had problems to compile it. But it worked if i compiled it from Amos. As suggested earlier in this thread.

This is because the compiler and AMOS use separate files to store extensions that need to be loaded and used!
I'm not sure how to (safely) change the Compiler's setup off the top of my head, but I do know it's much easier in AMOS Pro

06 January 2015, 15:28	#101
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,790	BBmain.LIB is just some extension the author of backbone renamed - If it runs from AMOS then the extensions are there - You need to run the Compiler from Amos But like I say there wont be any speed increase if thats what you hope for........... BackBone uses screen copy for the Scolling - Remove all the Wait VBL and with FBLIT - you might get some strange results Last edited by Retro1234; 06 January 2015 at 15:35.

06 January 2015, 16:21	#102
hipoonios Amiga Hardcore Gamer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,207	Run the compiler from Amos! That does the trick! Yes, I know... No speed increase by just compile it with AMOS instead. I just wondered if someone who knows AMOS more than me could find a way to speed up the games by just do some small changes to the code. But i think it is as you saying. The code is big and complex so most of the it needs to be written from scratch. Well, now we can at least do some small changes to our games. Like make the score counter to reset after death should be no problem. RedskullDC: So now it would be useful with a hacked version that does not delete the source from RAM! Last edited by hipoonios; 06 January 2015 at 16:28.

08 January 2015, 14:43	#113
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,790	Ive had some strange messages - you know who you are I have NOTHING to do with BackBone or Reality Im writing my OWN engine and it not finished and its for my OWN fun. You can try the mayhem in monsterland demo in the Zone - It uses a 32 colour screen and the size of the Sprite makes no difference - to an extent or see video below. [ Show youtube player ] Also Big Thanks to all the people that have given me advice and over the years - You know who you are Last edited by Retro1234; 08 January 2015 at 15:15.

15 February 2015, 16:48	#119
Lemming880 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 260	For those who missed it, I also made a Backbone game: Boxx 2. Info: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76523 Last edited by Lemming880; 27 January 2022 at 14:44. Reason: removed broken image links

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07 January 2015, 01:17	#103
Leon Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dublin Posts: 17	We should forget the Backbone and all limitations and prepare bounty for [ Show youtube player ]. This is the last hope for us.

07 January 2015, 05:59	#104
hipoonios Amiga Hardcore Gamer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,207	Yup, that video have been posted a few times in the thread now. It looks very promising. I will be happy to support him once it is out. But then will a demo be released? No one knows.. I think he should give us little more information. I WANT IT NOW! Because i want to start with my next game very soon

08 January 2015, 01:19	#107
Leon Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dublin Posts: 17	Two years ago I've wrote a long article about Backbone. If someone would be interested in translating my article into English I get my permission. BTW. Ironclaw sent greetings to all of you.

08 January 2015, 14:29	#112
hipoonios Amiga Hardcore Gamer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,207	Yes, AMOS can't compete with Assembler of course. BUT AMOS CAN do fast 50 fps scrolling. http://hol.abime.net/5809 http://hol.abime.net/5818 Maybe not the best examples... But these games runs fast and smooth on a standard A500 and they are both made in AMOS.

22 January 2015, 17:56	#116
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,188	AMOS compiler does bit shift optimization on multiplies by powers of two and they are faster than using shift instructions from an extension due to the inefficient calling convention of the compiler.

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