12 January 2021, 17:59 | #41 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,307
|
Quote:
DigiboosterPro is another story (except Paula DMA mode the channels are mixed using AHI). If you use a sound card then use the 16 bit AHI sound driver. If you use Paula then use a 14 bit stereo++ driver. With a slow CPU (<040) use the 14 bit FAST modes (using pre-calc tables) to be able to mix enough channels. With 040/40 (my setup) I recommend the normal 14 bit stereo++ mode. The 040/40 is too slow for the HIFI modes (4 channels is already too much). I don't know but guess that a 060 is also too slow for 6-8 channels or more. I would say nobody used the HIFI modes. However, the normal 14 bit mode sounds good but is far away from 16 bit. Quote:
|
||
12 January 2021, 18:40 | #42 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,488
|
Quote:
It is a sum of many things scattered in various threads also here on EAB, and it is a great reference on how Paula really works, refuting many misinterpretation that are often spread.. |
|
12 January 2021, 19:54 | #43 | ||
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 362
|
Quote:
Quote:
This is the thread about output of theoretical 14-bit sound quality on Paula, and definitely not about what most or nobody used. |
||
12 January 2021, 21:34 | #44 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,307
|
The topic (discussed several times) is about 14 bit on Amiga through Paula is (real) 14 bit or less and different opinions to this. Thomas did some measure. Most judge by opinion. I doubt that most users know how 14 bit or 12 bit or 10 bit sound. Where is the reference to compare to? For me it is irrelevant if 14 bit Paula playback is 14, 12 or 10 bit. It is somewhere between 8 and 16 bit. You can argue about it but in the end it is all the same.
|
12 January 2021, 21:47 | #45 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Croatia
Age: 48
Posts: 54
|
Early CD players (like those based on TDA1540 series DACs) were 14 bit. Could be used for testing and comparing, I suppose.
|
12 January 2021, 22:06 | #46 |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,488
|
Perhaps first it is better to decide which machine to try Paula with.
Value for the fixed LP RC filter (from posted paper): - Amiga 500/2000: 4.42 kHz (100 nF, 360 ohm) - A600 Rev2: 27.7 kHz (3.9 nF, 1.5k ohm) - A1200 Rev1d: 27.7 kHz (3.9 nF, 1.5k ohm) - A1200 Rev2: 34.4 kHz (6.8 nF, 680 ohm) - A4000: 4.52 kHz (47 nF, 750 ohm) The A2000 doesn't seem the most suitable machine to me... |
12 January 2021, 22:22 | #47 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,304
|
For the test frequency used here (441Hz), we are well away from the critical frequency of the filter of any of the machines. Since an ideal R/C filter is linear, the output of a sine wave (such as generated) is a sine wave again, just with a different amplitude, and with a phase shift. Both are compensated by the small test program. Whatever filter is in the audio output, it does not matter as long as it is a linear filter.
|
12 January 2021, 22:29 | #48 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,488
|
Quote:
|
|
12 January 2021, 23:06 | #49 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 362
|
Quote:
[ Show youtube player ] And here more bits and what it is all about [ Show youtube player ] |
|
12 January 2021, 23:23 | #50 |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,488
|
A not too complex article on bit-depth and sound quality:
https://www.soundguys.com/audio-bit-...plained-23706/ and why for a casual listener 12 bit audio may even be good. |
13 January 2021, 00:14 | #51 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: oslo/norway
Posts: 1,613
|
All the tech. talk might be interesting for some, but the proof is in what you are hearing.
I played guitar since I was a kid and I have a high-end stereo sound system. Music and sound been a interest of mine forever. Paula sound natural with CD quality material as long as your screen mode is over 30Hz. 22khz Audio with PAL high-res screen mode or similar is not good enough for my taste. I'm talking real voice, instruments. For modules 8 bit, lower frequency is no problem. Paula is for sure no contender for a high-end hi-fi system but for casual audio playback most would be happy. I also tried many Amiga audio players and the best is EaglePlayer. There are quite big differences in the playback software. Old Amiga hardware like the A500 I have does not sound good. My Amiga 600 and 1200 sound much better. |
13 January 2021, 00:39 | #52 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 433
|
Quote:
I still have a Roland W-30 here which uses 12bit sampling and it’s difficult to tell it isn’t 16bit, unless you do a specific A/B test. |
|
13 January 2021, 01:25 | #53 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Spain
Posts: 516
|
I promise that without encouraging any controversy, I made a video some time ago comparing my Atari Falcon with real sound at 50Khz 16bits against my A600 (14bits 50Khz). Just in case someone is interested in appreciating the difference by listening to what Thomas has discovered. Maybe someone can find it interesting......
[ Show youtube player ] Last edited by Estrayk; 13 January 2021 at 01:30. |
13 January 2021, 01:37 | #54 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL?
Posts: 2,872
|
|
13 January 2021, 05:30 | #55 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,304
|
Then chose it differently. The tools I posted allow you to specify the frequencies. Though the phase drift aka incorrect frequency is not the real problem here. It's compensated.
|
13 January 2021, 05:31 | #56 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,304
|
|
13 January 2021, 08:30 | #57 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 433
|
Quote:
Last edited by bloodline; 13 January 2021 at 09:03. |
|
13 January 2021, 11:43 | #58 | |
Defendit numerus
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Crossing the Rubicon
Age: 54
Posts: 4,488
|
Quote:
But I clearly remember the abysmal difference on audio quality between my old A500 and my A1200 (1d4), with the same conditions of play of course. Especially with regard to high-frequency reproduction (for modules with low frequency samples in many cases I preferred the A500, but this by the different R/C stage causing more aliasing artifact on A1200). So it's not only a question of filter, but also of better/newer components, better D/A separation or less noise or who know.. I would do a test on an A1200 |
|
13 January 2021, 12:03 | #59 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 3,436
|
Quote:
Somewhat strangely, to me the difference seems far more clear in the frequency response and not so much in the areas I'd expect. I'd expect to hear a lot more noise on the Amiga output, instead I mostly heard a difference where the Falcon was hitting the "high" tones "better". |
|
13 January 2021, 12:20 | #60 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 439
|
Quote:
While in theory the A600 and the A1200 should have the same fixed filter, it seems like that's not always the case in reality, but the filter is equivalent to that of the Amiga 500 with 4 kHz cutoff: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=86880 Maybe that also applies here? |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
"Voices8" 8 Channel Soundtracker "DemoSongI" song - "This is the Amiga with 8 Voices" | DemosongIHunter | request.Music | 45 | 23 May 2022 20:07 |
IDE 40/44 pin adapter to work in Amiga 1200,a bit "dirty" hack. Possible? | hda | support.Hardware | 4 | 11 September 2020 00:05 |
Question on audio settings: Should I use UAE "sinc" or OpenAL "4-point sync" or both? | Dr.Venom | support.FS-UAE | 3 | 14 September 2017 08:22 |
Amiga Power "Games Massive" Audio Tracks | twcustom | project.TOSEC (amiga only) | 4 | 21 July 2016 21:09 |
"Bit för bit" demo (Swedish TV-show, hard to find!) | Ziaxx | request.Demos | 5 | 10 March 2009 18:38 |
|
|