Amiga Options

gururise · 30 October 2017, 17:53

I'm evaluating options for some friends to get into the Amiga scene. Buying classic hardware on eBay is not an option (its way too expensive).

Here is what I've come up with:

Standalone FGPA Options

Vampire V4 Standalone (~$500+ ?price not yet announced) - not avail
- Fastest FPGA Emulation (21.5x ?? faster than A3000)
- 68060+ Emulation (with AMMX and SAGA exentions)
- AGA + SAGA Emulation
- Active Development
- Closed Source
MIST (link) (~$250) - available now
- 68020+ Emulation (1.2-2.5x faster than A3000)
- AGA Emulation
- Open Source!
- VGA Out only
MISTer (link) (~$175 w/student discount) - available now
- 68020+ Emulation (1.5-2.8x faster than A3000)
- AGA Emulation
- Open Source!
- VGA & HDMI + Scan Doubler
- in active development and using larger FGPA that is expandable!
FPGA Arcade (link) (~$299) - limited availiability
- Slightly Faster than MISTer (2.34x A3000 speed)
- Fits in ITX Case
- AGA Emulation
- 68060 Daughterboard in development
- Partially open source?
FleaFPGA (link) (~$45 + ship + kbd/mouse +sdcard) - available soon
- Speed unknown
- ECS Only
- Open Source!
- Raspberry Pi Zero form factor!

SoC Solutions:

Raspberry Pi3 (uae4arm)
- Faster than Vampire! (~36x speed of A3000)
- 68000-68040 emulation
- AGA Emulation
- UAEGFx Card emulation
- Open Source!
- Cheap (~$35 + kbd/mouse and sdcard)
ASUS Tinkerboard (uae4arm)
- Fastest SoC emulation (~64x? speed of A3000)
- 68000-68040 emulation
- AGA Emulation
- Must compile sources manually (for now)
- UAEGFx Card emulation
- Open Source!
- Cheap (~$50 + kbd/mouse and sdcard)

What option would you guys recommend to someone interested into getting into the Amiga? I'm leaning toward the new MISTer project, as there seems to be a lot of potential for growth there.

Amiga1992 · 30 October 2017, 18:06

There's one more option, the FleaFPGA OHMBoard:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...oard-arduino#/

You are trying to introduce someone new to the Amiga, right? Wasting a ton of caash on something they might not even enjoy would be silly.

I'd back the FleaFPGA project, or if you can't wait, Raspberry Pi with Amiberry.
If they like it, they can upscale.

However you said "classic hardware is too expensive', yet all your FPGA options were over $150. You can get an A1200 for $150 (not on eBay of course), but I get it, you are in the US, and over here it seems Commodore stuff is made of gold or something, prices compared to Europe are shit. It's usually cheaper to import a unit from Europe instead.

BippyM · 30 October 2017, 18:11

Raspberry-pi will cover all bases and is cheap. Following ultimate Amiga setup then WHDload is easy, as is rtg screens etc and productivity.

I use uae4arm on an Nvidia shield, and amiberry on the pi.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

DamienD · 30 October 2017, 18:14

No need to puchase anything; just use WinUAE

PortuguesePilot · 30 October 2017, 18:34

FPGA is the future, although it's a very expensive present. I've not invested yet nor shall I while prices are this high. However, it's the only way that the Amiga market can evolve and, in the long run, the only way of keeping the Amiga alive. As is, the FPGA is too expensive and still somewhat in the early stages of development. Price, though, is the main obstacle (IMO). There's no guarantee that it will ever go down, though...

You seem to have the SoC solutions well defined and thought out.

But for me, there's still no replacement for the real thing. However, due to price inflation, a real A1200 + accelerator board are still an expensive investment (in the excess of 300€).

A much cheaper alternative, is to go for DamienD's suggestion. Have an old computer (Pentium IV or up) in the garage without any use? Plug it in, configure FS-UAE or even WinUAE (my personal favourite fork of UAE) and boot to AmigaOS. Alternatively use something like Amilator or AmiKit. This is the most inexpensive way, though purists will say that it's just a "pretend" Amiga.

Ultimately, it's up to you to figure out whatever gives your boat the best float. For me, it's still the good, old REAL Amiga.

TrashyMG · 30 October 2017, 18:36

What are you basing the Vampire V4 speeds from? It's not currently out and the core development is still on going... Actually where are you basing any of these performance numbers from?

Gold 2.7, then 3.0 should be a big boost in performance for the existing V2 cards as well.

Amiga1992 · 30 October 2017, 18:46

Yeah those figures are bogus.

gururise · 30 October 2017, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrashyMG

What are you basing the Vampire V4 speeds from? It's not currently out and the core development is still on going... Actually where are you basing any of these performance numbers from?

Gold 2.7, then 3.0 should be a big boost in performance for the existing V2 cards as well.

Basing the speeds on the existing vampire videos on Youtube. Thats why I have a question mark next to the speed... not sure what the final speed will be.

The rest of the speeds were taken from videos on Youtube of running SysInfo on the respective systems. If they are wrong, please let me know what the correct speeds are.

TrashyMG · 30 October 2017, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gururise

Basing the speeds on the existing vampire videos on Youtube. Thats why I have a question mark next to the speed... not sure what the final speed will be.

The rest of the speeds were taken from videos on Youtube of running SysInfo on the respective systems. If they are wrong, please let me know what the correct speeds are.

21.5 is pretty close to what I've been seeing for the Vampire V2's beta core... not the V4 with a beefier FPGA and better DRAM and a full hardware FPU. It's also not very accurate, actual performance is likely higher than Sysinfo states.

gururise · 30 October 2017, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

There's one more option, the FleaFPGA OHMBoard:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...oard-arduino#/

Yes, very cool project; unfortunately, only uses an FPGA big enough to fit the ECS minimig core. Added it to my list!

nobody · 30 October 2017, 19:46

Amilator for PC is way faster than any RPi or Vampire. I would say around 10 times faster than a Vampire on Intel Core i5. Maybe around 100x speed of A3000.

TrashyMG · 30 October 2017, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobody

Amilator for PC is way faster than any RPi or Vampire. I would say around 10 times faster than a Vampire on Intel Core i5. Maybe around 100x speed of A3000.

Well yeah it's on a PC...

Personally I'm more interested in the Vampire cards that accelerate current classic hardware than the standalone.

TrashyMG · 30 October 2017, 19:56

@gururise - Mjurney just published some Amiga32 coverage, some sysinfo numbers and quake timedemo from the Vampire V2 with the next beta core. So with the V4, think bigger:

[ Show youtube player ]

ajk · 30 October 2017, 20:07

What is your goal here? What do you want to do with the setup?

With the FPGA things you don't get the "real" experience (compared to original hardware), yet they are expensive and not particularly convenient (compared to UAE).

If I had to choose one of the "hardware imitation" options I'd take the Raspberry Pi 3 since it's cheap, but frankly, if used with a generic keyboard and mouse it's not going to be much different from just running emulation on a PC (or Mac or whatever). In my opinion it would at least need to be built into an Amiga case to be worthwhile.

TrashyMG · 30 October 2017, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajk

What is your goal here? What do you want to do with the setup?

With the FPGA things you don't get the "real" experience (compared to original hardware), yet they are expensive and not particularly convenient (compared to UAE).

If I had to choose one of the "hardware imitation" options I'd take the Raspberry Pi 3 since it's cheap, but frankly, if used with a generic keyboard and mouse it's not going to be much different from just running emulation on a PC (or Mac or whatever). In my opinion it would at least need to be built into an Amiga case to be worthwhile.

Well the Apollo-Core project end goal is to a create modern Amiga compatible 68K processor with modern features (64-bit extensions, video decoding features, higher amount of instructions executed per clock cycle, 16-bit audio like the AAA chipset). From what I understand eventually they hope/want to make a true silicon ASIC that could be clocked at a much higher frequency than an FPGA. The Vampire Accelerator is a development tool which uses a subset of the Apollo Core to help develop this core, the end user just get a very fast Amiga experience as a byproduct.

If you guys just want to run existing Amiga stuff faster, then have at it with Emulation. The Apollo Team is attempting to making something new, which seems to be a sin to some of the people here.

ajk · 30 October 2017, 20:56

That's fine, but it's a very small subset of the scene. I was interested in hearing what the original poster wants to do with the Amiga. Any advice we can give really depends on what those expectations are. Most commonly, people joining these forums simply want to play old games from their childhood and many of these listed systems are over-specced for just that.

Amiga1992 · 30 October 2017, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrashyMG

Blabber

This is off-topic, this thread is about recommendations for systems, not about what Apollo Team wants to achieve. Don't start.

ajk was talking to the OP and asked HIM what HE wanted to do with the setup, which is an excellent question.

HelloBeautiful · 30 October 2017, 21:15

I think an A600+furia 020 would be a brilliant ~150-200€ entry point if you don't mind missing some AGA stuff.

Amiga1992 · 30 October 2017, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelloBeautiful

I think an A600+furia 020 would be a brilliant ~150-200€ entry point if you don't mind missing some AGA stuff.

Yes, that would apply in Europe. OP lives in the US and prices over here for anything Amiga are fucking stupid. Makes me real glad I brought over all my stuff from Europe when I moved, because I would not have been able to afford any of it in the US.

An A600 would be a rare sight to find in the US too, and there are no alternatives to eBay, places like Craigslist have actually even stupider prices.

Best bet is Amibay and hope to find an US seller (most people are not), and second best case scenario is, as I said, import it from Europe: buy from Euro Amibay user, pay a ton of shipping, and it still will be cheaper than US prices.

nobody · 30 October 2017, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelloBeautiful

I think an A600+furia 020 would be a brilliant ~150-200€ entry point if you don't mind missing some AGA stuff.

A600: 150€ recapped in good condition.
Accelerator: 110€

Total around 260€.

30 October 2017, 17:53	#1
gururise Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 67	Amiga Options I'm evaluating options for some friends to get into the Amiga scene. Buying classic hardware on eBay is not an option (its way too expensive). Here is what I've come up with: Standalone FGPA Options Vampire V4 Standalone (~$500+ ?price not yet announced) - not avail - Fastest FPGA Emulation (21.5x ?? faster than A3000) - 68060+ Emulation (with AMMX and SAGA exentions) - AGA + SAGA Emulation - Active Development - Closed Source MIST (link) (~$250) - available now - 68020+ Emulation (1.2-2.5x faster than A3000) - AGA Emulation - Open Source! - VGA Out only MISTer (link) (~$175 w/student discount) - available now - 68020+ Emulation (1.5-2.8x faster than A3000) - AGA Emulation - Open Source! - VGA & HDMI + Scan Doubler - in active development and using larger FGPA that is expandable! FPGA Arcade (link) (~$299) - limited availiability - Slightly Faster than MISTer (2.34x A3000 speed) - Fits in ITX Case - AGA Emulation - 68060 Daughterboard in development - Partially open source? FleaFPGA (link) (~$45 + ship + kbd/mouse +sdcard) - available soon - Speed unknown - ECS Only - Open Source! - Raspberry Pi Zero form factor! SoC Solutions: Raspberry Pi3 (uae4arm) - Faster than Vampire! (~36x speed of A3000) - 68000-68040 emulation - AGA Emulation - UAEGFx Card emulation - Open Source! - Cheap (~$35 + kbd/mouse and sdcard) ASUS Tinkerboard (uae4arm) - Fastest SoC emulation (~64x? speed of A3000) - 68000-68040 emulation - AGA Emulation - Must compile sources manually (for now) - UAEGFx Card emulation - Open Source! - Cheap (~$50 + kbd/mouse and sdcard) What option would you guys recommend to someone interested into getting into the Amiga? I'm leaning toward the new MISTer project, as there seems to be a lot of potential for growth there. Last edited by gururise; 30 October 2017 at 19:33.

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30 October 2017, 18:06	#2
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	There's one more option, the FleaFPGA OHMBoard: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...oard-arduino#/ You are trying to introduce someone new to the Amiga, right? Wasting a ton of caash on something they might not even enjoy would be silly. I'd back the FleaFPGA project, or if you can't wait, Raspberry Pi with Amiberry. If they like it, they can upscale. However you said "classic hardware is too expensive', yet all your FPGA options were over $150. You can get an A1200 for $150 (not on eBay of course), but I get it, you are in the US, and over here it seems Commodore stuff is made of gold or something, prices compared to Europe are shit. It's usually cheaper to import a unit from Europe instead.

30 October 2017, 18:11	#3
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	Raspberry-pi will cover all bases and is cheap. Following ultimate Amiga setup then WHDload is easy, as is rtg screens etc and productivity. I use uae4arm on an Nvidia shield, and amiberry on the pi. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

30 October 2017, 18:14	#4
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	No need to puchase anything; just use WinUAE

30 October 2017, 18:34	#5
PortuguesePilot Global Moderator Join Date: May 2013 Location: Setúbal, Portugal Posts: 609	FPGA is the future, although it's a very expensive present. I've not invested yet nor shall I while prices are this high. However, it's the only way that the Amiga market can evolve and, in the long run, the only way of keeping the Amiga alive. As is, the FPGA is too expensive and still somewhat in the early stages of development. Price, though, is the main obstacle (IMO). There's no guarantee that it will ever go down, though... You seem to have the SoC solutions well defined and thought out. But for me, there's still no replacement for the real thing. However, due to price inflation, a real A1200 + accelerator board are still an expensive investment (in the excess of 300€). A much cheaper alternative, is to go for DamienD's suggestion. Have an old computer (Pentium IV or up) in the garage without any use? Plug it in, configure FS-UAE or even WinUAE (my personal favourite fork of UAE) and boot to AmigaOS. Alternatively use something like Amilator or AmiKit. This is the most inexpensive way, though purists will say that it's just a "pretend" Amiga. Ultimately, it's up to you to figure out whatever gives your boat the best float. For me, it's still the good, old REAL Amiga.

30 October 2017, 18:36	#6
TrashyMG Registered User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Vermont - USA Posts: 44	What are you basing the Vampire V4 speeds from? It's not currently out and the core development is still on going... Actually where are you basing any of these performance numbers from? Gold 2.7, then 3.0 should be a big boost in performance for the existing V2 cards as well.

30 October 2017, 18:46	#7
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Yeah those figures are bogus.

30 October 2017, 19:46	#11
nobody Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: GR Age: 47 Posts: 1,416	Amilator for PC is way faster than any RPi or Vampire. I would say around 10 times faster than a Vampire on Intel Core i5. Maybe around 100x speed of A3000.

30 October 2017, 19:56	#13
TrashyMG Registered User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Vermont - USA Posts: 44	@gururise - Mjurney just published some Amiga32 coverage, some sysinfo numbers and quake timedemo from the Vampire V2 with the next beta core. So with the V4, think bigger: [ Show youtube player ]

30 October 2017, 20:07	#14
ajk Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,341	What is your goal here? What do you want to do with the setup? With the FPGA things you don't get the "real" experience (compared to original hardware), yet they are expensive and not particularly convenient (compared to UAE). If I had to choose one of the "hardware imitation" options I'd take the Raspberry Pi 3 since it's cheap, but frankly, if used with a generic keyboard and mouse it's not going to be much different from just running emulation on a PC (or Mac or whatever). In my opinion it would at least need to be built into an Amiga case to be worthwhile.

30 October 2017, 20:56	#16
ajk Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,341	That's fine, but it's a very small subset of the scene. I was interested in hearing what the original poster wants to do with the Amiga. Any advice we can give really depends on what those expectations are. Most commonly, people joining these forums simply want to play old games from their childhood and many of these listed systems are over-specced for just that.

30 October 2017, 21:15	#18
HelloBeautiful Registered User Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Helsinki Posts: 84	I think an A600+furia 020 would be a brilliant ~150-200€ entry point if you don't mind missing some AGA stuff.

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