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Old 14 April 2020, 11:42   #81
BippyM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskullDC View Post
Hi Honx, et al.



I asked this very question almost two years ago to the day, with no response.

Can we get an answer on this issue Global Mods?

Regards,
Red

I have no objection to someone creating a keygen on a modernoos and sending it to stefan so he can create personalised keys.



Do you have any info on the keyfike format, encryption?
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Old 14 April 2020, 19:40   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BippyM View Post
I have no objection to someone creating a keygen on a modernoos and sending it to stefan so he can create personalised keys.
I'm pretty sure that is not what is being suggested.

Really, after basically ignoring the Amiga community for over 10 years, and ripping the few people that did manage to contact him off with generic keys, we don't owe him anything. A keygen should be made whether he likes it or not, it's abandonware at this point.
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Old 14 April 2020, 20:07   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I'm pretty sure that is not what is being suggested.

Really, after basically ignoring the Amiga community for over 10 years, and ripping the few people that did manage to contact him off with generic keys, we don't owe him anything. A keygen should be made whether he likes it or not, it's abandonware at this point.

I know exactly what is being asked!



At what point does software legally become abandonware? If this is legally abandon ware, and zero chance of eab being in the firing line then we don't mind. Show me evidence that it is abandonware.



How he has treated the community is not relevant. He owns the copyright, and unless he says it is free, or it is legally abandonware.. Then we're at a stalemate.
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Old 14 April 2020, 20:12   #84
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My understanding of it is that software becomes abandonware when it can no longer be purchased.

I would argue that this software falls into that category. Even if by some miracle you do manage to get a keyfile, it'll have someone elses name on it.

Someone can not be reasonably expected to wait months if not years to hear back from Stefan so they can pay full price for software that is registered in another person's name.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Abandonware is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, and for which no official support is available.[1] Although such software is usually still under copyright, the owner may not be tracking copyright violations.

Last edited by Hewitson; 14 April 2020 at 20:18.
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Old 14 April 2020, 21:25   #85
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Is there a working keygen?
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Old 15 April 2020, 01:38   #86
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I bought a key in February and got feedback within 3 days. His A3000 was still broken and I received a temporary key..
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Old 15 April 2020, 06:45   #87
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Hi BippyM, et al.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BippyM View Post
I have no objection to someone creating a keygen on a modernoos and sending it to stefan so he can create personalised keys.

Do you have any info on the keyfike format, encryption?
I don't have any info on the key format, but I don't think it will be too hard to deduce.

Not suggesting anything which will deprive Stefan of his royalties, he deserves them for his work, nor anything which will put EAB in an untenable position.

Rather, if someone can prove they have paid for a keyfile, then they should be entitled to a personalised version, not a generic file in another persons name. Namely, produce the email in which they received the key.

If a keygen program *is* created, AmigaOS native or otherwise, I'm not sure how I feel about giving it to Stefan either?

His broken A3000 story is wearing a bit thin after 13 years or so....
(Unless he gave it to Phase V to fix )

Regards,
Red
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Old 15 April 2020, 17:38   #88
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Just make the keygen require the 'temporary' keyfile, which by the sounds of it is the same file for everyone who legitimately purchased it?

For extra credit, make a registered version of the keygen for Stefan but send him a 'temporary' keyfile for the keygen.
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Old 15 April 2020, 18:00   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BippyM View Post
At what point does software legally become abandonware? If this is legally abandon ware, and zero chance of eab being in the firing line then we don't mind. Show me evidence that it is abandonware.
I don't want to get into a discussion of the law, so just to answer the question: apart from death without a legal heir or an expired copyright (not the case here, US, UK & EU copyright are all valid for at least 70 years), there actually is no such thing as "legal abandonware".

The term abandonware is something that people made up to justify spreading copyrighted works that have been out of print/not on sale for a long time. Do note that I personally fully agree that it's rather silly that copyright lasts for seven or more decades and that stuff that hasn't been on sale in 30+ years is still fully protected by copyright. Nor do I personally see the problem with hosting/downloading such content.

But nonetheless, it's all still under copyright. Hence my answer
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Old 15 April 2020, 18:46   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskullDC View Post
Hi BippyM, et al.
I don't have any info on the key format, but I don't think it will be too hard to deduce.
With a couple of example keys it should be pretty straightforwards to determine where the name string lies and how it's coded.

Hypothetically speaking.
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Old 15 April 2020, 19:15   #91
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I genuinely don't have an issue with anyone copying or spreading anything Amiga related that isn't still supported. If it wont affect EAB then go for it!



Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
I don't want to get into a discussion of the law, so just to answer the question: apart from death without a legal heir or an expired copyright (not the case here, US, UK & EU copyright are all valid for at least 70 years), there actually is no such thing as "legal abandonware".

The term abandonware is something that people made up to justify spreading copyrighted works that have been out of print/not on sale for a long time. Do note that I personally fully agree that it's rather silly that copyright lasts for seven or more decades and that stuff that hasn't been on sale in 30+ years is still fully protected by copyright. Nor do I personally see the problem with hosting/downloading such content.

But nonetheless, it's all still under copyright. Hence my answer
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Old 15 April 2020, 22:42   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
My understanding of it is that software becomes abandonware when it can no longer be purchased.
Let's use this as a definition then.

Quote:
I would argue that this software falls into that category. Even if by some miracle you do manage to get a keyfile, it'll have someone elses name on it.
So the definition you came up with just one sentence ago isn't the actual definition you're applying here?

"It can be purchased, but not in the way I want it to be" is not the same as "it can not be purchased".

Quote:
Someone can not be reasonably expected to wait months if not years to hear back from Stefan so they can pay full price for software that is registered in another person's name.
It's his IP, so he decides under what condition he's selling you a license. If you don't like the conditions, don't buy it.

I don't get the sudden fixation with a MUI key anyway. It's not needed at all, since the only restriction is not being able to permanently save your settings - you can circumvent that by simply copying your MUI settings from ENV: to ENVARC: once you have everything configured to your liking.
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Old 15 April 2020, 23:28   #93
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I would argue that if Stefan is still selling licenses for MUI with key files, even if the files themselves are "temporary" and not named for the licensee, that the software is not abandoned. IANAL but you'd be hard-pressed to find one who would disagree with my reasoning.
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Old 16 April 2020, 02:52   #94
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I think the issue is that people are spending money expecting to get a license key in their name and are disappointed when a lame excuse is made and a generic keyfile is provided.

What is really being suggested here is to help people get a keyfile in their name. That's why I suggested to make the keygen dependent on the temporary key.

I don't think piracy is a real concern here as it is trivial to locate a key these days.
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Old 16 April 2020, 03:24   #95
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I don't see a problem with a keygen that requires a valid key to operate, but only if it's for personal use or to offer to Stefan to use in place of handing out the current temporaries. But that's a different story from whether or not MUI is abandonware.
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Old 16 April 2020, 04:49   #96
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Hi E-Penguin,
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
With a couple of example keys it should be pretty straightforwards to determine where the name string lies and how it's coded.

Hypothetically speaking.
I've started working on the problem using my own *genuine* key.

The user details, serial number are stored in plain ASCII in the key.

Put simply:
1. There is a simple blocksum on the user details area.
2. A hash function is applied to a $408 sized area of the key *6* times, seeded by the user details.
3. Another simple blocksum is performed on the hashed area.
4. On success, the KeyDecode routine returns a pointer to an Array of strings which are the user details.

The blocksums are simple, the hash functions are more difficult to follow.
We'll get there though

A section from the start of the DecodeKey function from muimaster.library 3.8 follows:

Code:
CODE:00001044 Decode_Key:                             ; CODE XREF: sub_145C+8?p
CODE:00001044
CODE:00001044 var_2C          = -$2C
CODE:00001044 var_28          = -$28
CODE:00001044 var_24          = -$24
CODE:00001044 var_20          = -$20
CODE:00001044 var_1C          = -$1C
CODE:00001044 var_14          = -$14
CODE:00001044 var_10          = -$10
CODE:00001044
CODE:00001044                 suba.w  #$2C,sp ; ','
CODE:00001048                 movem.l d2-d3/d6-d7/a2-a3/a5-a6,-(sp)
CODE:0000104C                 move.l  a1,$4C+var_14(sp)
CODE:00001050                 movea.l a0,a2           ; Filename ptr = "mui.key"
CODE:00001052                 move.l  d0,d6           ; D6 = subsequent block to check after name data, set to ZERO by caller
CODE:00001054                 move.l  d0,$4C+var_1C(sp)
CODE:00001058                 movea.l $990(a4),a6     ; EXECBase
CODE:0000105C                 move.l  #$648,d0        ; Bytes required
CODE:00001062                 moveq   #1,d1
CODE:00001064                 swap    d1              ; Mem type
CODE:00001066                 jsr     -$2AC(a6)       ; AllocVec(bytes, type)  D0,D1
CODE:0000106A                 movea.l d0,a5           ; Mem buffer in A5
CODE:0000106C                 move.l  d0,$4C+var_20(sp) ; save for later
CODE:00001070                 beq.w   loc_1238
CODE:00001074                 movea.l a2,a0
CODE:00001076                 bsr.w   sub_E8E
CODE:0000107A                 move.l  d0,d7
CODE:0000107C                 beq.w   loc_122A
CODE:00001080                 lea     $28(a5),a0      ; Key Buffer - $28 bytes into Allocated Vector Block
CODE:00001084                 move.l  a0,$4C+var_24(sp)
CODE:00001088                 move.l  a0,d2           ; Buffer
CODE:0000108A                 move.l  d7,d1           ; File
CODE:0000108C                 movea.l $970(a4),a6     ; DOSbase
CODE:00001090                 moveq   #$43,d3 ; 'C'
CODE:00001092                 lsl.l   #3,d3           ; $43 << 3 = $218
CODE:00001094                 jsr     -$2A(a6)        ; DOS Read (file, buffer, length)  D1/D2/D3
CODE:00001098                 cmpi.l  #$218,d0        ; Make sure we got $218 bytes
CODE:0000109E                 bne.w   key_read_error
CODE:000010A2                 lea     $28(a5),a0      ; Key Buffer
CODE:000010A6                 moveq   #$F,d0
CODE:000010A8                 lea     aMagickey,a1    ; "MagicKey"
CODE:000010AC
CODE:000010AC loc_10AC:                               ; CODE XREF: Decode_Key+6A?j
CODE:000010AC                 cmpm.b  (a1)+,(a0)+
CODE:000010AE                 dbne    d0,loc_10AC     ; Ensure first 16 bytes of Keyfile are "MagicKey\0\0......"
CODE:000010B2                 bne.w   not_magic_key
CODE:000010B6                 lea     $38(a5),a0      ; Registered User details start here
CODE:000010BA                 move.l  a0,$4C+var_2C(sp) ; Save PTR to User Details for below
CODE:000010BE                 moveq   #$40,d0 ; '@'
CODE:000010C0                 lsl.l   #2,d0           ; $40 << 2 = $100 bytes
CODE:000010C2                 bsr.w   Sum_Mem_Block   ; Sum_mem_block: A0 = block to test, D0 = byte count, D0 returns sum
CODE:000010C6                 move.l  $138(a5),d1
CODE:000010CA                 cmp.l   d0,d1
CODE:000010CC                 bne.w   add_sum_name_fail ; simple hash on user details failed
CODE:000010D0                 addq.l  #1,d6           ; Ensure D6 is always > ZERO
CODE:000010D2                 lea     $240(a5),a3     ; $408 byte work area in original allocated mem
CODE:000010D6                 movea.l a3,a0
CODE:000010D8                 move.l  a0,$4C+var_28(sp)
CODE:000010DC                 bra.s   loc_10FA
CODE:000010DE ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CODE:000010DE
CODE:000010DE loc_10DE:                               ; CODE XREF: Decode_Key+B8?j
CODE:000010DE                 move.l  d7,d1           ; File
CODE:000010E0                 move.l  a3,d2           ; Buffer
CODE:000010E2                 movea.l $970(a4),a6     ; DOSbase
CODE:000010E6                 move.l  #$408,d3        ; get the next $408 bytes
CODE:000010EC                 jsr     -$2A(a6)        ; DOS read
CODE:000010F0                 cmpi.l  #$408,d0        ; Key file is made of $218 user details + 5 x $408 blocks of?? = $1640 total
CODE:000010F6                 bne.s   loc_10FE        ; first block of $408 appears valid, rest is garbage?
CODE:000010F8                 subq.l  #1,d6
CODE:000010FA
Cheers,
Red
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Old 22 April 2020, 14:29   #97
RedskullDC
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Hi All,

Work on the Keygen is coming along (example attached).

That key was manually assembled, which is a laborious process.
Need some code to automate the process.

No time to work on it till next week I'm afraid.
Stay tuned.

Cheers,
Red
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Old 22 April 2020, 16:29   #98
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Very nice work!
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Old 22 April 2020, 21:44   #99
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Red,

Your picture looks better as I only have a 256 colour DblPAL WB, but look what I have created too
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Old 23 April 2020, 03:40   #100
RedskullDC
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Hi Exodus,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodous View Post
Red,
Your picture looks better as I only have a 256 colour DblPAL WB, but look what I have created too
Nice one

You would think I would be old enough by now to know that a pic can be too easily faked, inviting ridicule.

Video attached (a bit cropped) for the naysayers.

Regards,
Red
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