Photos and/or measurements of Amiga 500 - Page 4

prowler · 20 April 2012, 22:48

Hi bLAZER,

No drawings yet, I'm afraid, but I do have a high-res shot of the top and all measurements relating to the keyboard area cut-outs, including the LEDs.

First, here is a link to the hi-res shot:

All dimensions are measured in a plane parallel to the base of the machine.

The main body of the machine is 470mm wide by 325mm deep. There is a 6mm radius on each of the four corners, and a 6mm radius along the front and side edges of the keyboard.

The outermost edges of the main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs are 25mm and 10mm from the front and side edges of the body, respectively. All corners of the keyboard cut-outs have a 1mm radius.

The main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs are 95mm from front to back. 7mm separates the Escape and Function key cut-outs from the main keyboard cut-out. 7.5mm separates the Escape, F1-F5 and F6-F10 key cut-outs.

The Escape, F1-F5, F6-F10 and Del/Help key cut-outs are 21mm deep. The main keyboard cut-out is 298mm wide, except for the front 19mm, which is 269mm wide.

The Escape key cutout is 21mm wide, the F1-F5 and F6-F10 key cut-outs are 121mm wide, the Del/Help and cursor key cut-outs are 60mm wide and the numeric keypad cut-out is 78mm wide.

The Left/Right cursor key area is 21mm deep and the central Up/Down area is 40mm deep and 21mm wide.

7mm separates the innermost edges of the main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs from the Del/Help and cursor key cut-outs.

The LED cut-outs are 16mm wide and 2mm deep. The outermost edges are 21mm from the right edge of the body. The front edges are 13mm and 21mm from the numeric keypad cut-out.

The back edges of the main keyboard, Del/Help key and numeric keypad cut-outs are in alignment, and the front of the cursor key cut-out is in alignment with the front of the 76mm deep areas at either side of the main keyboard area.

Unless I have forgotten something, the above dimensions should give the complete specification for the keyboard area of the top of the case, so a drawing is now unnecessary.

bLAZER · 21 April 2012, 01:26

Thanks! I'll start messing around tomorrow, and get back if I got some questions.

bLAZER · 21 April 2012, 16:13

So, is it correct that the depth of the cutout for the main and numeric keyboard is 95mm?

prowler · 21 April 2012, 21:05

Yes, but don't forget that it is measured in a plane parallel to the base of the machine.

It could be nearer 96mm if you are more comfortable with that. I have given all the main dimensions in millimetres, but some may not be exact, and this is a case in point. In addition, it is not easy to judge the depth of keyboard features, as they are in an inclined plane.

bLAZER · 21 April 2012, 21:17

1 mm here or there isn't that important. But I'm curious how you measured then, if you didn't measure the cutout "for real". You can't for example use the ruler in the photo to measure the cutouts, since the perspective would give you false results.

Here's what I have after the modifications. The keys would need to change though (oh the horror!)

prowler · 21 April 2012, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLAZER

1 mm here or there isn't that important. But I'm curious how you measured then, if you didn't measure the cutout "for real". You can't for example use the ruler in the photo to measure the cutouts, since the perspective would give you false results.

I removed the top of the machine and supported it with the rear half level. I then measured the depth of the various keyboard features using a steel rule held parallel to the table.

This creates a perspective as if the machine were being viewed from above at a great distance (infinity).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLAZER

Here's what I have after the modifications. The keys would need to change though (oh the horror!)

The cut-outs appear to be in correct proportion. However, the keys don't look correct because, from a great distance, the sloping edges of the keys would appear more exaggerated, and this would make the keyboard cut-out appear relatively larger.

If you wish to lower the viewpoint, then just open up the keyboard cut-outs slightly where they appear cramped.

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 00:18

I'm not 100% sure I understand, but it sounds you know what you're doing

The keys are still the same size as before, and they are modeled to fit the old cutouts. Do you think you could measure the keys? A normal one would be enough.

prowler · 22 April 2012, 00:21

Yes, I have the A500 in front of me. I'll do it for you now.

Edit: A normal key (letter G) is 12mm wide x 14mm deep at the top and 18mm square at the base.

The height and slope of the top relative to the base varies depending on which row the key is sitting in.

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 00:34

Thanks! So all rows are different? Do they differ much?

prowler · 22 April 2012, 00:57

Yes. Although the top and base dimensions do not differ noticeably, the angles of the front and back bevels do, together with the angle of the top surface of the key relative to the base.

The effect is that the front keys are flatter than those at the back, which slope downwards significantly at the front. This gives the keyboard a 'concave' look when viewed from the side.

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 01:05

Yeah I know of the concavity, I have a few photos from the side, but you can't really see how deep the keys are. But since I really can't see it in the photos I guess you'll not be able to notice it in the renders either. I'll just do my best.

prowler · 22 April 2012, 01:17

I have a knackered A500 keyboard here. Tomorrow I'll remove one key from each row and take measurements of their profiles to give you a start.

The Return and Enter keys are different, since they each span two rows, so I'll detail them separately and give information about how they sit relative to the other keys.

I'll probably present the results as a set of 8 drawings which I'll attach to my post.

Does that sound as if it will be useful to you?

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 01:35

Hell yeah!

I lift my hat for you.

prowler · 22 April 2012, 01:43

No drawings of the keys yet either, I'm afraid.

It's been heavily overcast and wet here all day today and too dark to get anything like that done.

However, I stripped out the knackered keyboard and removed a few keys to get some general measurements which should help with remodelling the keys once the profiles are established.

The keyboard is inclined at 13º to the horizontal. There are six rows of keys. The front five rows are pitched 19mm apart, and the back row is pitched 28.5mm back from the next.

Single-width keys are 18mm square at the base and 12mm wide by 14mm deep at the top. All keys have the same left and right side bevels. The only differences between the rows of keys are the height and slope of the tops and the angles of the front and back bevels relative to the base.

The back two rows of keys are identical in profile.

There is 1mm clearance at the bases between all keys in groups, but between the back two rows there is a 10.5mm gap at the bases.

Single width keys have cylindrical concave tops with a 25mm radius of curvature about an axis running from front to back. Wider keys have the same depth of curvature with a proportionally greater radius. The exception is the space bar, with a top which is slightly cylindrical convex about an axis running from side to side.

The tops of the double-depth Return and Enter keys align with the back and front edges of the keys in the upper and lower rows which they span, respectively, so there will be no need to profile them separately.

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 13:47

If you can, please photo the keys in profile as well... you'll let me know if I'm too much of a pain the ass, right? :P It's just that I would say the keys are the most crucial part of getting it to look photo realistic.

prowler · 22 April 2012, 23:07

It will now be necessary only to complete detailed drawings of the five unique key profiles.

In addition, I will photograph the keyboard edge-on from both sides to show not only the the five unique profiles from the left side, but also the double-depth Enter key from the right.

BTW, nothing will be too much trouble. Let me assure you that I am looking forward to seeing your completed rendition of the Amiga 500 as much as you are.

I only recently became aware of this thread. Until it was resurrected by Retrofan, there had been no activity in this thread since before I registered as a member here!

bLAZER · 22 April 2012, 23:28

Sound awesome, looking forward to it!

prowler · 23 April 2012, 21:37

Here are the keyboard edge photos. Okay, they're not really photos; I did them with my scanner at 600dpi.

Drawings will follow tomorrow.

bLAZER · 23 April 2012, 21:58

Good stuff.! If they are easy to remove, it would be nice if you could scan the top and bottom of one normal key, so I can see how rounded the corners are.

prowler · 23 April 2012, 22:30

The corners of all keys have a 1.5mm radius. This radius is maintained all the way up each corner from the bottom to the top, including the "internal" corner of the Return key.

I actually measured that feature yesterday when I had the keyboard apart, but I forgot to include it in my post above.

20 April 2012, 22:48	#61
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Hi bLAZER, No drawings yet, I'm afraid, but I do have a high-res shot of the top and all measurements relating to the keyboard area cut-outs, including the LEDs. First, here is a link to the hi-res shot: All dimensions are measured in a plane parallel to the base of the machine. The main body of the machine is 470mm wide by 325mm deep. There is a 6mm radius on each of the four corners, and a 6mm radius along the front and side edges of the keyboard. The outermost edges of the main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs are 25mm and 10mm from the front and side edges of the body, respectively. All corners of the keyboard cut-outs have a 1mm radius. The main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs are 95mm from front to back. 7mm separates the Escape and Function key cut-outs from the main keyboard cut-out. 7.5mm separates the Escape, F1-F5 and F6-F10 key cut-outs. The Escape, F1-F5, F6-F10 and Del/Help key cut-outs are 21mm deep. The main keyboard cut-out is 298mm wide, except for the front 19mm, which is 269mm wide. The Escape key cutout is 21mm wide, the F1-F5 and F6-F10 key cut-outs are 121mm wide, the Del/Help and cursor key cut-outs are 60mm wide and the numeric keypad cut-out is 78mm wide. The Left/Right cursor key area is 21mm deep and the central Up/Down area is 40mm deep and 21mm wide. 7mm separates the innermost edges of the main keyboard and numeric keypad cut-outs from the Del/Help and cursor key cut-outs. The LED cut-outs are 16mm wide and 2mm deep. The outermost edges are 21mm from the right edge of the body. The front edges are 13mm and 21mm from the numeric keypad cut-out. The back edges of the main keyboard, Del/Help key and numeric keypad cut-outs are in alignment, and the front of the cursor key cut-out is in alignment with the front of the 76mm deep areas at either side of the main keyboard area. Unless I have forgotten something, the above dimensions should give the complete specification for the keyboard area of the top of the case, so a drawing is now unnecessary. Last edited by prowler; 21 April 2012 at 01:17. Reason: Added keyboard area cut-out dimensions.

22 April 2012, 00:21	#68
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Yes, I have the A500 in front of me. I'll do it for you now. Edit: A normal key (letter G) is 12mm wide x 14mm deep at the top and 18mm square at the base. The height and slope of the top relative to the base varies depending on which row the key is sitting in. Last edited by prowler; 22 April 2012 at 00:30.

22 April 2012, 01:43	#74
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	No drawings of the keys yet either, I'm afraid. It's been heavily overcast and wet here all day today and too dark to get anything like that done. However, I stripped out the knackered keyboard and removed a few keys to get some general measurements which should help with remodelling the keys once the profiles are established. The keyboard is inclined at 13º to the horizontal. There are six rows of keys. The front five rows are pitched 19mm apart, and the back row is pitched 28.5mm back from the next. Single-width keys are 18mm square at the base and 12mm wide by 14mm deep at the top. All keys have the same left and right side bevels. The only differences between the rows of keys are the height and slope of the tops and the angles of the front and back bevels relative to the base. The back two rows of keys are identical in profile. There is 1mm clearance at the bases between all keys in groups, but between the back two rows there is a 10.5mm gap at the bases. Single width keys have cylindrical concave tops with a 25mm radius of curvature about an axis running from front to back. Wider keys have the same depth of curvature with a proportionally greater radius. The exception is the space bar, with a top which is slightly cylindrical convex about an axis running from side to side. The tops of the double-depth Return and Enter keys align with the back and front edges of the keys in the upper and lower rows which they span, respectively, so there will be no need to profile them separately. Last edited by prowler; 22 April 2012 at 22:54.

23 April 2012, 21:37	#78
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Here are the keyboard edge photos. Okay, they're not really photos; I did them with my scanner at 600dpi. Drawings will follow tomorrow. Attached Thumbnails

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21 April 2012, 01:26	#62
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Thanks! I'll start messing around tomorrow, and get back if I got some questions.

21 April 2012, 16:13	#63
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	So, is it correct that the depth of the cutout for the main and numeric keyboard is 95mm?

21 April 2012, 21:05	#64
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Yes, but don't forget that it is measured in a plane parallel to the base of the machine. It could be nearer 96mm if you are more comfortable with that. I have given all the main dimensions in millimetres, but some may not be exact, and this is a case in point. In addition, it is not easy to judge the depth of keyboard features, as they are in an inclined plane.

21 April 2012, 21:17	#65
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	1 mm here or there isn't that important. But I'm curious how you measured then, if you didn't measure the cutout "for real". You can't for example use the ruler in the photo to measure the cutouts, since the perspective would give you false results. Here's what I have after the modifications. The keys would need to change though (oh the horror!)

22 April 2012, 00:18	#67
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	I'm not 100% sure I understand, but it sounds you know what you're doing The keys are still the same size as before, and they are modeled to fit the old cutouts. Do you think you could measure the keys? A normal one would be enough.

22 April 2012, 00:34	#69
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Thanks! So all rows are different? Do they differ much?

22 April 2012, 00:57	#70
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	Yes. Although the top and base dimensions do not differ noticeably, the angles of the front and back bevels do, together with the angle of the top surface of the key relative to the base. The effect is that the front keys are flatter than those at the back, which slope downwards significantly at the front. This gives the keyboard a 'concave' look when viewed from the side.

22 April 2012, 01:05	#71
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Yeah I know of the concavity, I have a few photos from the side, but you can't really see how deep the keys are. But since I really can't see it in the photos I guess you'll not be able to notice it in the renders either. I'll just do my best.

22 April 2012, 01:17	#72
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	I have a knackered A500 keyboard here. Tomorrow I'll remove one key from each row and take measurements of their profiles to give you a start. The Return and Enter keys are different, since they each span two rows, so I'll detail them separately and give information about how they sit relative to the other keys. I'll probably present the results as a set of 8 drawings which I'll attach to my post. Does that sound as if it will be useful to you?

22 April 2012, 01:35	#73
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Hell yeah! I lift my hat for you.

22 April 2012, 13:47	#75
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	If you can, please photo the keys in profile as well... you'll let me know if I'm too much of a pain the ass, right? :P It's just that I would say the keys are the most crucial part of getting it to look photo realistic.

22 April 2012, 23:07	#76
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	It will now be necessary only to complete detailed drawings of the five unique key profiles. In addition, I will photograph the keyboard edge-on from both sides to show not only the the five unique profiles from the left side, but also the double-depth Enter key from the right. BTW, nothing will be too much trouble. Let me assure you that I am looking forward to seeing your completed rendition of the Amiga 500 as much as you are. I only recently became aware of this thread. Until it was resurrected by Retrofan, there had been no activity in this thread since before I registered as a member here!

22 April 2012, 23:28	#77
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Sound awesome, looking forward to it!

23 April 2012, 21:58	#79
bLAZER Awesome to the max Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg / Sweden Age: 47 Posts: 1,005	Good stuff.! If they are easy to remove, it would be nice if you could scan the top and bottom of one normal key, so I can see how rounded the corners are.

23 April 2012, 22:30	#80
prowler Global Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Sidcup, England Posts: 10,300	The corners of all keys have a 1.5mm radius. This radius is maintained all the way up each corner from the bottom to the top, including the "internal" corner of the Return key. I actually measured that feature yesterday when I had the keyboard apart, but I forgot to include it in my post above.

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