Upscaling to HDMI

Retro1234 · 28 June 2019, 09:49

If I have a console that only has composite out and I use a Composite to HDMI is the image any better than Connecting the Composite direct?

Foebane · 28 June 2019, 11:01

I'd say no, as Composite is best viewed on CRTs (the old box TVs). But if you can't find one or don't have room for the CRT, then you really have no choice but to go HDMI. Just go for a good converter.

Hewitson · 28 June 2019, 12:01

I'd look at modding the console. What is it?

Retro-Nerd · 28 June 2019, 13:37

No, because this cheap HDMI scaling boxes are doing exactly the same as the internal scaling functions of your TV. Both looks shitty. You would need a professional video scaler for better results, e.g. the Frame Meister. But this doesn't make sense then, quality-wise. So, yes. If a RGB/component/s-video mod is possible for the console, this would be the best solution.

Retro1234 · 28 June 2019, 14:04

Some videos on YouTube suggest that it would take away the rough edges you get from composite.

Jope · 28 June 2019, 14:13

Composite outputs in home computers and consoles hardly have any rough edges, just a blurry mess. :-)

Retro1234 · 28 June 2019, 15:53

The TV probably displays at 576i or whatever when connected direct but when upscaled 1080p etc

Now I know in theory there shouldn't be a difference but some videos suggest the rough edges round Text seem better and in general sharper image, only really interested if someones had first hand experience.

Retro-Nerd · 28 June 2019, 16:16

Maybe. But this highly depends on the used chip inside the HDMI scaler box. And you never know what you get with the cheap chinese boxes/adapters. Even in the same product line they can change the chip for the worse or better. It's a bit like gambling.

Retro1234 · 28 June 2019, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Maybe. But this highly depends on the used chip inside the HDMI scaler box. And you never know what you get with the cheap chinese boxes/adapters. Even in the same product line they can change the chip for the worse or better. It's a bit like gambling.

Your probably right

demolition · 29 June 2019, 05:21

Whether you use the TV's built-in decoder or an external one, it needs to decode the Composite signal, sample it and scale to the panel resolution (1080p?). So it all comes down to which one has the better implementation and that is impossible to tell without naming specific models.

I have a RetroTINK 2X and it does a very nice job decoding and sampling the video signal from 240p sources:
https://www.videogameperfection.com/.../retrotink-2x/
It doesn't do any scaling though except for line doubling, so the monitor you are connecting it to must support 480p through HDMI, but I think most do.

Glen M · 03 July 2019, 14:41

I have a fairly decent laser disc collection and that format for those that don't know is composite only. I find the best picture I can get is to go direct from the player into the TV and let the TVs scaler deal with the image. The TV is a £1200 panasonic plasma from 7 years ago so fairly high end at the time and it does a fantastic job with the image. Likewise running my Amiga via composite to the TV direct produces a nice clean image, far better than that on my CRT TV. A cheaper TV may not do such a good job and when I say clean image its as good as it can get over composite, workbench for example is still hard on the eyes. Running RBG into the same TV from the Amiga produces an even better result but again its just straight computer to TV.

I find most TV will have an input for composite, RGB or component. You may need a breakout cable for it but it will be there. Even our new (well 1 year old now) Sony 4K OLED screen has this option all be it I haven't tried it.

Another option is with some TVs that have a VGA connection then use a scan doubler like the GB8200. That what I'm doing now in the mancave and the image is good enough for me. FYI the TV in the cave is faulty and the AV inputs don't work. If I could get RGB directly into it that would be my first choice.

demolition · 03 July 2019, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen M

I have a fairly decent laser disc collection and that format for those that don't know is composite only. I find the best picture I can get is to go direct from the player into the TV and let the TVs scaler deal with the image.

I was about to comment that some LD players had S-Video output as well, but reading up on the format I can see that the data on the LD is composite so any S-Video signal must have been decoded by the player from the composite signal as read from the disc.

You should be happy that your current TV has a decent image from composite sources - my experience is that it is generally quite bad as this is not a selling point for any new TVs.

Retro1234 · 21 February 2021, 15:42

How much lag do these cheap converts have?

28 June 2019, 09:49	#1
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Upscaling to HDMI If I have a console that only has composite out and I use a Composite to HDMI is the image any better than Connecting the Composite direct?

28 June 2019, 13:37	#4
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	No, because this cheap HDMI scaling boxes are doing exactly the same as the internal scaling functions of your TV. Both looks shitty. You would need a professional video scaler for better results, e.g. the Frame Meister. But this doesn't make sense then, quality-wise. So, yes. If a RGB/component/s-video mod is possible for the console, this would be the best solution. Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 28 June 2019 at 13:46.

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28 June 2019, 11:01	#2
Foebane Banned Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cardiff, UK Age: 51 Posts: 2,871	I'd say no, as Composite is best viewed on CRTs (the old box TVs). But if you can't find one or don't have room for the CRT, then you really have no choice but to go HDMI. Just go for a good converter.

28 June 2019, 12:01	#3
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,772	I'd look at modding the console. What is it?

28 June 2019, 14:04	#5
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	Some videos on YouTube suggest that it would take away the rough edges you get from composite.

28 June 2019, 14:13	#6
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,861	Composite outputs in home computers and consoles hardly have any rough edges, just a blurry mess. :-)

28 June 2019, 15:53	#7
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	The TV probably displays at 576i or whatever when connected direct but when upscaled 1080p etc Now I know in theory there shouldn't be a difference but some videos suggest the rough edges round Text seem better and in general sharper image, only really interested if someones had first hand experience.

28 June 2019, 16:16	#8
Retro-Nerd Missile Command Champion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Germany Age: 52 Posts: 12,438	Maybe. But this highly depends on the used chip inside the HDMI scaler box. And you never know what you get with the cheap chinese boxes/adapters. Even in the same product line they can change the chip for the worse or better. It's a bit like gambling.

29 June 2019, 05:21	#10
demolition Unregistered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Copenhagen / DK Age: 43 Posts: 4,190	Whether you use the TV's built-in decoder or an external one, it needs to decode the Composite signal, sample it and scale to the panel resolution (1080p?). So it all comes down to which one has the better implementation and that is impossible to tell without naming specific models. I have a RetroTINK 2X and it does a very nice job decoding and sampling the video signal from 240p sources: https://www.videogameperfection.com/.../retrotink-2x/ It doesn't do any scaling though except for line doubling, so the monitor you are connecting it to must support 480p through HDMI, but I think most do.

03 July 2019, 14:41	#11
Glen M Registered User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Belfast Posts: 750	I have a fairly decent laser disc collection and that format for those that don't know is composite only. I find the best picture I can get is to go direct from the player into the TV and let the TVs scaler deal with the image. The TV is a £1200 panasonic plasma from 7 years ago so fairly high end at the time and it does a fantastic job with the image. Likewise running my Amiga via composite to the TV direct produces a nice clean image, far better than that on my CRT TV. A cheaper TV may not do such a good job and when I say clean image its as good as it can get over composite, workbench for example is still hard on the eyes. Running RBG into the same TV from the Amiga produces an even better result but again its just straight computer to TV. I find most TV will have an input for composite, RGB or component. You may need a breakout cable for it but it will be there. Even our new (well 1 year old now) Sony 4K OLED screen has this option all be it I haven't tried it. Another option is with some TVs that have a VGA connection then use a scan doubler like the GB8200. That what I'm doing now in the mancave and the image is good enough for me. FYI the TV in the cave is faulty and the AV inputs don't work. If I could get RGB directly into it that would be my first choice.

21 February 2021, 15:42	#13
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	How much lag do these cheap converts have?

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