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View Poll Results: SPS @ back2roots? | |||
that would be cool | 45 | 93.75% | |
not so important | 0 | 0% | |
that would be bad | 1 | 2.08% | |
i don't care | 2 | 4.17% | |
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll |
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22 October 2007, 21:32 | #1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
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RFC: SPS/CAPS @ back2roots ?
dear caps/sps community & maintainers!
this is my first posting to eab (!!!), and i want to use it to end an old outdated story which i hereby call past by offering friendly cooperation between our projects, if you want, which the amiga friends would benefit much from (and that should be the most important for us all). like your faq says - we are all amiga friends.... i do this in public, so everyone could see that it's a given word and no half truth with an expiration date i hereby offer caps/sps a legal distribution channel for all releases covered by the licenses at BTTR, giving you unlimited webspace at i.e. sps.back2roots.org, which you could maintain independently. (just a few common hosting rules not taking much freedom). you can have as many "per person" ftp accounts as you need and can update your site in realtime. fyi, we have the space for this since a week or two. all i ask for in turn is allowing us to put your work (of course not hiding the source) in our existing infra- structure. means it would be forwarded (maintained by us so delayed by update frequency) to a i.e. Games/SPS-Games section, same as the files would be mirrored (automatically daily) to ftp.back2roots.org/pub/back2roots/sps also allowing to extend our licenses to caps/sps versions of all games we have online legally. we should also both (you and us) let the user decide whether he/she prefers an ADF, WHDLOAD, SPS or CD version of a game (or whatever format will be introduced later) with each format's advantages and disadvantages, without turning such subject into politics further (which i already did, but hereby stop). i'm currently writing our hosting rules and one rule is "do not be political", and it should be me who follows my rules in first place. I started to write this posting in the moment after i wrote above rule there was/is noone who's wrong or right, and noone even needs to change opinion. Now there's enough (disk) space for multiple opinions, and opinions should never block hard work. we all work on similar topic, and there should not be a reason important enough to not do that hand in hand. if there are (besides above point) other issues open, (which i could not imagine) let's mail about peaceful, and not combat here. from my side past is past, and since we are all in this universe to learn, we should only refer to the past to make the future better. please feel like i came by on sunday with cake, so after shaking hands we should make some coffee or tea and sit down metamonk@yahoo.com - make sure my reply passes your spam filters |
23 October 2007, 00:13 | #2 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: No(R)Way
Age: 42
Posts: 3,257
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Cool, and finally welcome
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23 October 2007, 03:38 | #3 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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@hippie2000
Hello there, welcome to the EAB, i am sure you know most about it I hope you join in with us here as there is plenty of mischief to getup to, and please keep us informed on how it goes with the SPS/CAPS team. Personally i do indeed believe it would be cool, BTTR was one of the first sites i found on my retro-revival until I found here.. it would be great to see if have even more content to offer the retr0-netizen... it would also be nice if HOL / AMR could link to a page of possible game-linked downloads if possible... that indeed would wrap up some projects nice and tidy... |
23 October 2007, 11:53 | #4 |
Junior Member
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That will be cool.
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23 October 2007, 12:08 | #5 |
A-Collector, repairments
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just wondering why bippy is against that idea...
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23 October 2007, 13:22 | #6 |
In deep Trouble
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, Made in Norway
Age: 52
Posts: 841
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I think more options would be a good idea. People who don't know anything about SPS, but know ADF could then download their ADF's. And vice versa. Or, if they want a "true original copy" (as SPS strives towards, as I understand them) they get the SPS image instead.
One thing I WOULD enjoy, is people to stop disk-images for "ROMS" because it's a diskimage, not a ROM image :/ |
23 October 2007, 13:58 | #7 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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@Doc
I would like them to make an interesting and enjoyable a space scfi movie... without the sound in space.... i know its artistically correct, I just wish for once physics would trump them softy artists!!!! i cannot see this happening either! The thing is if you consider it for them images for moment... if you have a true SPS image, the last thing you are going to do is write over it. thusly making it Read Only Memory.... much the same way as a cartridge.. and I have considered for a moment the Sega/SNES & N64 that have a write back portion, as a parable to saving to disk.... its... a niggle... when people do refer to a disk image as a ROM, but i fear its with us to stay ... @Hippie2000 I do have concerns about how you will disseminate the SPS / CAPS archive, after all there would be an absolute ton of traffic to your site, and this would slow down even browsing. I had considered Hosting the TOSEC libraries (at least the legal ones) but even with unlimmited webspace and unlimmited traffic, i am sure buy the end of the week my host would be crippled. Another thing that might be an issue would be if any revenue was in place generating money from such a high foot fall on the back of SPS/CAPS archive. Although i serious doubt that would be the case.... i am sure this would be a concern to the SPS/CAPS teams.... hmmmm now why oh why would bippym be against such a move? AHA!!! i know.... all those sellers on ebay that would be out of a job!!! its sad bippstah i agree, but some times you have to let go.... |
23 October 2007, 16:59 | #8 |
Amiga User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 47
Posts: 568
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Very cool indeed.
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23 October 2007, 17:26 | #9 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Moorpark, California
Age: 44
Posts: 1,153
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Quote:
Anyway, could anyone explain why people are talking to Bippy when there is no such post... Did he delete it? |
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23 October 2007, 17:37 | #10 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Age: 37
Posts: 11,168
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He voted for "that would be bad" so I assume that's why people are talking to him.
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23 October 2007, 20:40 | #11 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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23 October 2007, 22:12 | #12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
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Hello, and thank you for your nice welcome! Shows me it was
the right decision to discuss this here. I didn't know the board is that handy in creating polls (noticed it at submit time) but that was a helpful tool to get an overiew of common opinion, even after one day. The poll will last 30 days, but it already shows the direction to go if sps wants... @Zetr0: you wont believe it, but same here. i found BTTR being bobics page in times when lazarus was still alive. when lazarus got closed bobic had the idea to ask companies, and once he had license for 3 (!!!) games i asked "may i help you" cause i liked the idea. regarding cross linking. that will happen, the cross linking was my idea which i discussed first with rck (who is coder friend, a likeminded cooperative nice person). we then opened export feeds to each others. now when i was off the net our part did not happen. but now that im back we already talked on where we last stopped (time wasnt an issue :) and i already got an export yesterday of all hol id's and bobic already agreed on doing the (ugly onetime) lookup task. so be sure it will happen... @doc: i hope you did not misunderstand me, my posting should not enforce sps to be pro adf or point at adf images in same location. just they should not object against adf, same as we should not object against sps. each format has a target where the other doesnt work, so both are needed. and when i say freedom of speech i mean it. they can promote their format there as they want to. regarding ROMs, well, as a techie i always smile when i hear ROM as a word for disk images, but most amigans being a bit informed know the difference, and all need ROMs to boot the images. besides this, disk images burned to CD in fact are Read Only Memory :) @Zetr0 (2nd): your concerns are very realistic, but these are common to our archive too. without the help of the university trondheim we would also have trouble to host our archive elsewhere. its just too traffic hungry. but since >5 years we have a good home there. we are even allowed to serve ISO images, which went about half of the traffic since. Until now bttr was hosted on a single machine (400MHz K6/2) both for the ftp (with one million downloads per week) and for the http part of all hosted projects including bttr www and winuae.net. still many people found it fast. but now that we bought a blazing fast multi xeon raid server we will dedicate the other machine to hosted http projects (same connectivity as the big machine) and the primary machine for the anon ftp and the bttr www site. both machines are ready to be used to serve the bttr file collection simultaneously (you may have noticed they currently come from files2.back2roots.org). im techie and i'll handle that part, like possible load balancing or in worst case even bandwidth throtteling (hopefully never necessary). regarding tosec amiga, with the ok from the responsibles and people who want to maintain it we can arrange something similar, should imho be discussed and polled in a tosec forum later. from our host we only have the limit that it must be all legal and nonprofit, so no sales and ads or links to illegal archives at our site to not offend our (very flexible) host. pretty fair limits imho, pretty much the opposite to usual (ad driven) hosting. just one example how flexible they are. many years ago an IDSA robot called "sir henry hunter 4th" found bttr while crawling the web for trademarks they protect, and since a robot is stupid, did without any research notify the university that they host a pirate archive and that they should shut it down. the university in turn notified us and asked IDSA back to approve their claim, which never happened, so bttr wasnt shut down (the uni knows its licensed stuff). @Bippym: in case your vote was not topic related, i could not remember we ever had problems with each other, last i remember before i was offline was being in friendly talk with you, which i enjoyed much. did i miss something? if i ever promised something and forgot, remind me, nothing expired. Seeing that you compile demo DVDs today with having to seed them slowly we can also arrange something for you quickly to defeat bandwidth problems, if you want. @everyone who knows me from before: i still have hundreds of unresponded mail being stuck in the server before disk space went down, and hundreds further ones never reached us due. besides that i use no icq atm (db crashed after first login, so many messages were lost there too). this all will be fixed with time. bttr server is the most imortant atm, and im before the last (visible) step, moving www to new machine. after this moving dns and mail server is next step. old mail in there which is not lost will be responded with time, once it reaches me. mail sent to my yahoo address is responded quickly (for now). webspace can be arranged quickly too (now that our limits are past) and is stable. Any FTP account ever opened is still open, use upload.back2roots.org instead of ftp.back2roots.org to login. reask PWs if you forgot. the last >5 years we had ~100% uptime (see winuae.net, same machine). just bttr script and mail server broke when space went zero and no hippie was around to fix it... @PJ: man what a young veteran you are :) but in fact, it's true. i rember you being around since my first trials using emulated amiga (that was on "fast" 133MHz pentium 1 :) |
23 October 2007, 23:29 | #13 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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@Hippie2000
Indeed its a great idea, and one that i feel BTTR should do! thanks for answering my query's. |
24 October 2007, 10:33 | #14 |
Fanatically Amiga.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 1,557
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Well, so far.. its 31:1 vote ratio (Didn't take a genius to figure that out).
Welcome Hippy, and glad to have BTTR back with us, it was worth the wait (And the wonder where it went). Now, as for BTTR hosting CAPS images, if the title is already a title that BTTR has got "PERMISSION" to host, then where is the harm ? I gave a Thumbs up to the Idea. |
24 October 2007, 17:21 | #15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
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@whiteb
>And the wonder where it went in short, bttr ran stable for years, so i did not fear to leave it running for the time it took to collect the donations required to go on. now what failed was that the scripts, updating itself hourly, did not find any space any more one day (while i was off) resulting in zero size scripts. while some space could be freed by someone else the scripts were entirely gone until i returned. from now on we keep a backup on the server for such cases... >where is the harm well, i posted here not only to request common opinion, but also hoping someone of the caps/sps team would join the discussion (i thought it was "their" forum. since the ipf work is not my work i woul like to hear from some responsible "go for it, but we dont have time to maintain" or "no, let it be" or such feedback. its a matter of fairniss to get a consent before adding large amounts of 3rd party work. in case they dont have time but agree, im sure someone else can be found here. (or was already found :) |
24 October 2007, 18:38 | #16 |
In deep Trouble
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, Made in Norway
Age: 52
Posts: 841
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@Hippie
Don't get me wrong.... I just thought some people would want the "original" legal copy (as is SPS' strive) while other's are happy with a quick rip (the normal ADF/DMS). As for my commetn about ROM versus diskimages... that was more a wish from my side, rather than trying to hammer it into less educated people's heads @Retro: An SPS image, is STILL an image of a floppy disk, thus it's (technically) _not_ a ROM file. After being written back to floppy, the floppy should of course be writeprotected so that further writings (aka alterings of the disk) is prevented. And CD is, IMO, still no "memory" as we know it, it's a "Disc" just like Floppy or HD, and thus, technically, should be called "CD-ROD"(Compact Disc - Read Only Drive). Just because it's an accepted term, doesn't make it technically right And in any case, I'm for any and all things that goes on the BTTR servers, whether they be in SPS, ADF, or DMS format (for floppies) or as ISO for CD's Preservation for the future |
24 October 2007, 18:45 | #17 |
Citizen of Elthesh
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 949
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24 October 2007, 18:59 | #18 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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@eLowar
i dont know about you but I am more interested in this member "Retro" that the Doc's on about @Doc whom is this Retro of whom you post of ?! truth is my friend, those that don't know any better will continual to call it what every the like as apposed to what it really is.... for me... i can understand the confusion of ROMS, but what I can never forgive people whom refer to my or any other Amiga (CD32 not included) as a "Console" ....thats just people being completely illiterate. Now.... wheres all them CAPS/SPS members we have here..... they should say something. |
24 October 2007, 19:03 | #19 |
Citizen of Elthesh
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 949
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24 October 2007, 19:07 | #20 |
Ya' like it Retr0?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49
Posts: 9,768
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Lmao!!!!
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