FS-UAE runs too fast

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 12:38

Hi Frode,

have tested FS-UAe now on my HTPC. It's a Core i5 with integrated garphics (HD3000).

Now, if I star a game, it runs too fast. If I set VSync not to Full, the game runs with the original speed, but the screen is cutted i the middle (no sync)

What's the problem and how can I fix it?

PS: HTPC is Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit

AmigaFriend · 19 December 2012, 13:30

Degrade to mid 1990's hardware.

I have no problems running it on my Sandy Bridge i7. I'm running Win 7 64 bit with HD6570M

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 14:07

I know, mysterious.... On my work notebook, using Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit I have also no problems... This machine is also a Core i5...

FrodeSolheim · 19 December 2012, 17:48

Without FS-UAE.log, I'll have to resort to guessing:
- You're running FS-UAE with full video sync, and your monitor refresh rate is 60Hz. You're then forcing a 50Hz game to run at 60Hz, giving an effective speedup of 20%.
- When you run with video_sync = off, no synchronization is done at all, causing tearing.

You'll want to either:
- Switch to a resolution @50Hz
- Or use video_sync=vblank (which syncs the display flipping to the vblank interval).

The default value, video_sync = auto uses full video sync if the Amiga refresh rate matches the host refresh rate, and only syncs the display flipping otherwise. So auto should work well for you too.

Of course, for really smooth scrolling, you need to run your display @50Hz...

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 18:27

My display, a Samsung LED TV, runs at 50Hz, because TV Content is smoother with this... Post le Log tomorrow. At this time a have no chance to work on the HTPC. My wife is watching TV.

AmigaFriend · 19 December 2012, 18:58

nexusle, incidentally what graphics card do you use on the other i5 machine? The same IntelHD graphics or a discrete card?

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 21:06

No. Ist the same integrated graphics.

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 21:27

BTW: If I run the same game on the same machine with WinUAE this probelem doesn't exists

FrodeSolheim · 19 December 2012, 21:35

Really no point in discussing this before nexusle has verified whether the graphics card is set to output 50Hz or 60Hz. Even though the TV can *handle* 50Hz (which it of course can since it's a European TV), Windows probably defaults to 60Hz as usual..

The WinUAE comparison is only relevant if that's set to force vsync also (and WinUAE does not change system display refresh rate).

Since this problem occurs when video_sync = full (which is only a useful option of the system refresh rate isn't detected properly, since the default "auto" setting enables it when applicable anyway), it is a fair assumption that Windows is set up with 60Hz output.

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 21:42

The gfx card IS set to 50Hz. The LED TV is used as normal diaplay and shows this what set from gfx card. Logically!

Have tried it with 60Hz and it's more bad then with 50Hz...

So we can discussing!

FrodeSolheim · 19 December 2012, 21:46

OK, well the next step then is to post FS-UAE.log, and please also include a screenshot of FS-UAE running (when it runs too fast) with the video debug overlayed turned on (Ctrl+F10). This will also contain useful information.

nexusle · 19 December 2012, 21:47

Yes! Will do this tomorrow morning!

nexusle · 20 December 2012, 11:24

Now I am completely stumped! Set in Windows obviously 50Hz, but FS-UAE shows an entirely abnormal Hertz number ...

I must do a screenshot in windowed mode, because the relevant information doesn't show on the fs-uae screenshots from F12+S

nexusle · 20 December 2012, 13:57

I must correct my post that with my work notebook is all ok! That's wrong! Here I have the same problems as with my HTPC...

Have now tested it with connected VGA monitor to the notebook at 75Hz and there are no problems!

FrodeSolheim · 20 December 2012, 20:41

It's hard to see that I can be an FS-UAE bug. The graphs shows that the video render runs at 66.4 fps (which indeed is weird). The graphs are completely smooth (except for one missed frame - the single double-height spike in graph), and this indicates that FS-UAE correctly waits on vblank.

Why 66.4 fps? It's possible that some display driver setting enables a kind of fake OpenGL vsync? May even be a driver bug.

Perhaps there's some OpenGL/video debugging/benchmarking software you can run and see if you get 66 fps (with vsync) there too?

I would check for driver update and investigage OpenGL driver settings...

nexusle · 20 December 2012, 20:56

Hmm. Ok. I use the latest driver for the Intel gfx.

I think, it's only a problem with digital outputs. So I have this problem with my via DVI connected TV and the build in display of the notebook. But if I connect a analog display like the LCD monitor via VGA there are no problems.

03 January 2013, 01:45

My technical knowledge is very limited, but as you're using a LED TV, could it be related to those (awful imo) motion smoothing options that we find on many TVs nowadays? Most of times it's activated by default and is also known to cause troubles while playing with modern consoles.

And now that I think of it, when you say "too fast", are the games really running too fast or does it just feel like there are too many frames by second?

nexusle · 03 January 2013, 05:34

No. All these picture improvements are deactivated.

nexusle · 09 February 2013, 11:44

*** Deleted ***

FrodeSolheim · 09 February 2013, 12:05

OK, thanks for the update (will keep this in mind if I hear of similar problems).

19 December 2012, 12:38	#1
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	FS-UAE runs too fast Hi Frode, have tested FS-UAe now on my HTPC. It's a Core i5 with integrated garphics (HD3000). Now, if I star a game, it runs too fast. If I set VSync not to Full, the game runs with the original speed, but the screen is cutted i the middle (no sync) What's the problem and how can I fix it? PS: HTPC is Windows 7 Ultimate 32bit Last edited by nexusle; 19 December 2012 at 13:18.

20 December 2012, 11:24	#13
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	Now I am completely stumped! Set in Windows obviously 50Hz, but FS-UAE shows an entirely abnormal Hertz number ... I must do a screenshot in windowed mode, because the relevant information doesn't show on the fs-uae screenshots from F12+S Last edited by nexusle; 27 January 2013 at 20:08.

20 December 2012, 13:57	#14
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	I must correct my post that with my work notebook is all ok! That's wrong! Here I have the same problems as with my HTPC... Have now tested it with connected VGA monitor to the notebook at 75Hz and there are no problems! Last edited by nexusle; 20 December 2012 at 14:06.

09 February 2013, 11:44	#19
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	* Deleted * Last edited by nexusle; 23 March 2013 at 13:39.

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19 December 2012, 13:30	#2
AmigaFriend Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CLI Posts: 1,462	Degrade to mid 1990's hardware. I have no problems running it on my Sandy Bridge i7. I'm running Win 7 64 bit with HD6570M

19 December 2012, 14:07	#3
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	I know, mysterious.... On my work notebook, using Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit I have also no problems... This machine is also a Core i5...

19 December 2012, 17:48	#4
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	Without FS-UAE.log, I'll have to resort to guessing: - You're running FS-UAE with full video sync, and your monitor refresh rate is 60Hz. You're then forcing a 50Hz game to run at 60Hz, giving an effective speedup of 20%. - When you run with video_sync = off, no synchronization is done at all, causing tearing. You'll want to either: - Switch to a resolution @50Hz - Or use video_sync=vblank (which syncs the display flipping to the vblank interval). The default value, video_sync = auto uses full video sync if the Amiga refresh rate matches the host refresh rate, and only syncs the display flipping otherwise. So auto should work well for you too. Of course, for really smooth scrolling, you need to run your display @50Hz...

19 December 2012, 18:27	#5
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	My display, a Samsung LED TV, runs at 50Hz, because TV Content is smoother with this... Post le Log tomorrow. At this time a have no chance to work on the HTPC. My wife is watching TV.

19 December 2012, 18:58	#6
AmigaFriend Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CLI Posts: 1,462	nexusle, incidentally what graphics card do you use on the other i5 machine? The same IntelHD graphics or a discrete card?

19 December 2012, 21:06	#7
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	No. Ist the same integrated graphics.

19 December 2012, 21:27	#8
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	BTW: If I run the same game on the same machine with WinUAE this probelem doesn't exists

19 December 2012, 21:35	#9
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	Really no point in discussing this before nexusle has verified whether the graphics card is set to output 50Hz or 60Hz. Even though the TV can handle 50Hz (which it of course can since it's a European TV), Windows probably defaults to 60Hz as usual.. The WinUAE comparison is only relevant if that's set to force vsync also (and WinUAE does not change system display refresh rate). Since this problem occurs when video_sync = full (which is only a useful option of the system refresh rate isn't detected properly, since the default "auto" setting enables it when applicable anyway), it is a fair assumption that Windows is set up with 60Hz output.

19 December 2012, 21:42	#10
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	The gfx card IS set to 50Hz. The LED TV is used as normal diaplay and shows this what set from gfx card. Logically! Have tried it with 60Hz and it's more bad then with 50Hz... So we can discussing!

19 December 2012, 21:46	#11
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	OK, well the next step then is to post FS-UAE.log, and please also include a screenshot of FS-UAE running (when it runs too fast) with the video debug overlayed turned on (Ctrl+F10). This will also contain useful information.

19 December 2012, 21:47	#12
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	Yes! Will do this tomorrow morning!

20 December 2012, 20:41	#15
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	It's hard to see that I can be an FS-UAE bug. The graphs shows that the video render runs at 66.4 fps (which indeed is weird). The graphs are completely smooth (except for one missed frame - the single double-height spike in graph), and this indicates that FS-UAE correctly waits on vblank. Why 66.4 fps? It's possible that some display driver setting enables a kind of fake OpenGL vsync? May even be a driver bug. Perhaps there's some OpenGL/video debugging/benchmarking software you can run and see if you get 66 fps (with vsync) there too? I would check for driver update and investigage OpenGL driver settings...

20 December 2012, 20:56	#16
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	Hmm. Ok. I use the latest driver for the Intel gfx. I think, it's only a problem with digital outputs. So I have this problem with my via DVI connected TV and the build in display of the notebook. But if I connect a analog display like the LCD monitor via VGA there are no problems.

03 January 2013, 01:45	#17
DarthKaal Posts: n/a	My technical knowledge is very limited, but as you're using a LED TV, could it be related to those (awful imo) motion smoothing options that we find on many TVs nowadays? Most of times it's activated by default and is also known to cause troubles while playing with modern consoles. And now that I think of it, when you say "too fast", are the games really running too fast or does it just feel like there are too many frames by second?

03 January 2013, 05:34	#18
nexusle Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Earth Age: 46 Posts: 500	No. All these picture improvements are deactivated.

09 February 2013, 12:05	#20
FrodeSolheim FS-UAE Developer Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Førde, Norway Age: 43 Posts: 4,043	OK, thanks for the update (will keep this in mind if I hear of similar problems).

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