![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
Linux snob
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
|
Kickstart substitute
The necessity to buy/dump a kickstart is a nuisance and obstacle to the proliferation of UAE. Kickstart is basically a collection of OS specific libraries that are saved in ROM for historical reasons, just like ibm's bios. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Pc emulators like qemu come with a free bios, of course.
Frankly, I don't see why it hasn't been done before. The effort to to reimplement (the important parts of) kickstart should be very small compared to uae as a whole. Why should amiga be so different in that aspect? |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | ||
move.l #$c0ff33,throat
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berlin/Joymoney
Posts: 6,865
|
Quote:
It's also more than just "a collection of OS specific libraries", it's the complete Operating System. Quote:
![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 666
|
Quote:
It has, WinUAE contains a basic kickstart replacement which could be backported to the mainline UAE codebase, or more likely to E-UAE. Also there is the AROS project which has a bounty open to create a free, unencumbered kickstart replacement, it may never happen but AROS has surprised most people by how much they have actually achieved. Complexity for one thing (both technical and legal) and the lack of any market potential. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | ||
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,611
|
Quote:
![]() It was implemented long time before WinUAE. Quote:
KS3.x "compatible" KS replacement should be possible (get all regular libs from AROS and add 68000 low level assembly routines, like interrupts and task switching) but it requires very low level exec knowledge. 100% KS 1.x game compatible Kickstart replacement is near-impossible. It needs to be bug-by-bug compatible, must use exact same amount of RAM, basically it must be exact same thing or some game will break. Unfortunately AROS bounty is very very complex. First phase should be something like "must boot most bootable games with custom bootblock, no need to support CLI yet". This is already very complex task. (but don't need weird dos.library yet..) I am sure I could do it but it would mean months of really boring work. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Linux snob
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
|
Isn't it possible to rewrite exec and the other libraries in C (or whatever aside from assembler)? How much compatibility could you expect from that? I heard of incompatibilities between kick1.3 and kick3.0 due to unclean programming of the applications, of course. Is it really that bad? 100% compatibility is unrealistic even for the most elaborate emulator.
Would the aros bounty face legal issues? To my best knowledge, it is legal to produce substitutes with compatible interfaces. That's why wine is still there. |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,611
|
Quote:
Most KS2.x+ compatible applications and drivers don't try to do anything stupid. Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Italy
Age: 41
Posts: 466
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Millom, Cumbria
Posts: 63
|
Quote:
It was included on the coverdisk of CU Amiga 50 something. I don't think anything came of it legal-wise, no law suits or anything... So maybe Relokick could be packaged with it or incorporated as an option or something? Last edited by J.Tramiel; 09 December 2008 at 19:41. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Hamster tamer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Out in the woods
Posts: 122
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 666
|
The fact that the 1.3 ROM came with ReloKick doesn't affect it's copyright status in any way, distribution without prior written permission from the rights holder is a copyright violation no matter how you obtain the ROM.
Galahad mentioned this as well but at the time I assumed he was joking. Is there any evidence to support this claim? |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Millom, Cumbria
Posts: 63
|
Yeah, I just loaded my adf of Relokick thru workbench and hey presto in the Devs directory is a file called rom1.3
Regarde: Dunno if this is an 'official' Commodore ROM or if it's an 'unofficial' one. (how does one tell?) Just noticed that the filesize is a lot smaller than the 1.3 rom I am using with winuae - maybe compressed or something? (Might try taking it from the adf and using it in WinUAE just for the crack) |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Italy
Age: 41
Posts: 466
|
1.3 kickstart is only 256kb.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Missile Command Champion
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 52
Posts: 12,479
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Millom, Cumbria
Posts: 63
|
Heh I must be using an over-dumped version, mine's 512k.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 331
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#16 |
Hamster tamer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Out in the woods
Posts: 122
|
Just about, overworked and running on autopilot right now
![]() Vaguely back on topic, I might be wrong about CU amiga having permission to include the 1.3 ROM on their coverdisk, from what I've been reading on google groups they *might* have had permission from C= UK, but C= UK didn't have the authority to give them permisson. I'll see if I can jump up in the attic and find my old CU mags. |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Age: 37
Posts: 11,168
|
I had a look on AMR and as far as I can tell they never mentioned anything about having permission for it, certainly not in that particular issue.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Linux snob
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
|
As far as I understand, Cloanto would welcome a kickstart substitute as part of Aros. He even donated for the Kickstart ROM Replacement (Phase I) bounty.
I found some info here: http://www.amigakickstart.com/ http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122 |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
Hamster tamer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Out in the woods
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
![]() The only thing I found out about it through Google Groups archive, was that the next months issue had some readers questions asking about the legality of the 1.3 ROM. BTW,wasn't it CU Amiga that also had the complete OS3.1 as 5 adf files on some cover CDs without permission? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#20 | |
Linux snob
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Aros m68k (Kickstart substitute) | mihcael | Amiga scene | 392 | 29 November 2022 01:16 |
HQC Kickstart 1.2 (cracked kickstart) | T_hairy_bootson | support.Apps | 51 | 18 February 2019 20:25 |
ChipQuik and substitute | kipper2k | Hardware mods | 18 | 27 September 2013 10:55 |
A1200 Kickstart 3.1 - Light gray screen before Kickstart | Sallinen | support.Hardware | 7 | 21 November 2008 21:22 |
Kickstart 2.0 vs. kickstart 3.1 on A600 | fc.studio | support.Hardware | 19 | 21 October 2007 21:03 |
|
|