02 April 2021, 11:35 | #121 |
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I agree, too much technical details .... so boring
I must say, people should enjoy much more what they have Too much "i don't like this, i don't like this too" IMHO Have fun people, it's just music in the end ! |
02 April 2021, 11:39 | #122 |
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The interesting thing is of course that an awful lot of music today is being done by synthesizers, even if you wouldn't know it. Anything from individual instruments down to full orchestra's can be done by high quality synthesis these days and many people can't even hear the difference any more.
As for these old systems: I don't think you can say "synthesis is too sterile" or "8 bit pcm is too noisy". These systems all have their own 'sound' and some of the music done on every single one of them is quite good. I have a real soft spot for the SID (an example here is that I still find the in-game tune of Golden Axe on the C64 to be pretty much the best version out there, same with the in-game tunes for the C64 version of R-Type). I've learned to like the Sega MD sound as well, there's some great tunes on it. Same with PC-Engine. Adlib slightly less so, but that is more exposure than anything else. The Dune soundtrack on Adlib sounds pretty darned good, apart from the drums which admittedly don't sound great. Same with some of the Atari ST songs, there's some pretty good examples in this thread of stuff that is quite catchy. Good music is good music irrespective of the sound chip used. |
02 April 2021, 11:58 | #123 |
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Two of the musicdisks I have in my demo collection have chiptunes, which would be right at home with the FM enthusiasts, I would think.
Unless you think Abyss' Preschools are not chiptunes? [ Show youtube player ] [ Show youtube player ] (My favourite in PS#2 is "On and On") I've heard people say that SID and FM stuff can't be reproduced faithfully on Paula, but this makes me think otherwise. The funny thing is, I like chiptunes on Paula, but not anywhere else. It's like I know the Amiga is capable of any natural or commercial sound reproduction (even if mostly in 8-bit) but other sound hardware is just as capably represented. |
02 April 2021, 12:17 | #124 | |
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For me the answer is obvious. |
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02 April 2021, 12:34 | #125 | |
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02 April 2021, 12:58 | #126 | |
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FYI Atari could use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_AMY and http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers...AMY/index.html - very interesting idea (inverse FFT aka additive synthesis), better than SID for sure but ST was designed from components available on market and in very limited time constrains, only custom IC's used in ST are glue logic chips with relatively low electrical complexity (similar to Gary i.e. gate array). And MIDI is nothing fancy - MIDI is an UART driven with fixed 31250 bps and UART MC6850 was available on shelf directly (cheapest UART supporting speeds over 19200 bps). As engineer my component selection will be similar to ST designers - cheap, good ratio between price and functionality (performance). |
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02 April 2021, 13:15 | #127 | |
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I was looking exactly for this dirty, overloud, out of tune rave-punk-shit [ Show youtube player ] [ Show youtube player ] ...and the rest of Amiga sound versatility, but definitely not for clean, polite FM/SID/AY/YM bleeps and blops . |
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02 April 2021, 13:19 | #128 | |
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Regarding the Atari - the extra 0.86 MHz speed compared to the Amiga were rarely used to achieve prettier sound, except for some demos. |
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02 April 2021, 14:00 | #129 |
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Last I heard, the PC speaker didn't have volume control, and that is ESSENTIAL for playing back samples!
Last edited by Foebane; 02 April 2021 at 15:46. Reason: Removing unnecessary filler |
02 April 2021, 14:22 | #130 |
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Wrong, you can certainly play back sampled sounds on the IBM PC speaker; eg. the MS-DOS port of World Class Leaderboard plays sampled speech.
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02 April 2021, 14:33 | #131 | |||
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Back to listening to the Dune soundtrack now! |
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02 April 2021, 15:30 | #132 | |
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If you can drive it fast enough you can fake it with pulse width modulation or even sigma-delta modulation. If you can drive it fast enough you can indeed achieve very high quality that way - but good luck doing anything else at the same time! |
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02 April 2021, 15:49 | #133 | |
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02 April 2021, 16:39 | #134 |
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Fundamentally this is same principle as in SACD (considered by some audiophiles superior to CD) - coded signal with speed around 1.1MHz can provide analog signal with over 70..80dB (for example 4th order DeltaSigma with 3 bit PWM) - in PC speaker is driven by i8253 and one PIO's of the i8255 - in theory you can do such quality only in software but probably you need to spent lot of CPU cycles on it...same approach as in C64 or AtariX?/ST.
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03 April 2021, 05:06 | #135 | |
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03 April 2021, 13:31 | #136 |
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It's very good - suspiciously so! It also starts playing before the "loading" and "decrunching" text has displayed, so something's screwy there. I think the actual music has been replaced for some reason - (maybe a copyright strike, though you'd expect the Madonna cover to trigger that if anything does!) Here's another video of the same production with (some of) the actual first track: [ Show youtube player ] |
03 April 2021, 19:14 | #137 | |
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Cheaters! |
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03 April 2021, 19:36 | #138 | ||
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Yes, robinsonb5 is correct. I have received a copyright claim on the first song: Quote:
All these copyright claims are also one of the reasons I've stopped recording cool retro chip songs and scene productions - too many claims - mostly bogus, but sometimes not bogus. There are cases where I receive claims on Apple II speaker sounds - 1 bit DAC controlled by 1 MHz 6502 CPU. While the sound is even worse than PC speaker, the automatic claims software loves to match it with random songs. |
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03 April 2021, 19:53 | #139 | ||
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Ah, that explains it - thanks. (The inline player removes timestamps, unfortunately - so the video plays from the beginning.) Quote:
Yeah it's very dispiriting. I once recorded myself playing and singing a Weird Al Yankovic parody song and stuck it on YouTube unlisted just to send to a couple of friends - and it was claimed almost immediately! Between that and the mid-rolls cutting people off mid-sentence I'm finding I use youtube a lot less than I used to. Anyhow, getting vaguely back on topic, yes the dual-AY songs are quite impressive - and the 8 SID chips example is also really cool. Makes me wonder how many different sound chip recreations could be crowded onto an FPGA and made accessible over MIDI... |
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03 April 2021, 19:57 | #140 | |
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Regarding the MIDI and why it become more standard on the Atari, than on the Amiga: There is a very good article by the author of Music-X, which explains one fundamental issue why the Amiga was never considered as serious MIDI machine:
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So, the Atari ST even with crappier sound chip and not multitasking Operating System, turned out to be better for MIDI than the multimedia machine Amiga. |
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