AY-YM chips

mtb · 03 December 2002, 23:03

What are the differences between the ay-3 8192 sound chip ( used by spectrum 128k and amstrad cpc ), the ym-2149 used bu the atari st and the one ( i think ym-2160 ) used by sega megadrive ( i suppose this last has got more channels )?

I like a lot the tune from the speccy game zub ( mastertronic ).

Does someone is able to tell me how can i stream it to wav ?

Thanx in advance.

Amiga1992 · 04 December 2002, 00:35

The YM 2160 is not compatible with the other two, it's a whole new chip. But the AY8192 and the YM2149 are almost the same. I think the differences between them lie in the way both generate the waveforms, and nothing else. So you oculd theoretically take a tune done in a YM2149, and play it in an AY8192, but they will sound different.

The frequencies at which they run in teh different machines are different too. It's not the same in the Speccy 128k, the Amstrad CPC or the Atari ST.

Hope that helps

Ah, about streaming.. There are a number of Winamp plugins for that purpose.

04 December 2002, 09:04

The AY8192 and the YM2149 are exactly the same. There isn't any difference in the way they generate waveforms.

Amiga1992 · 04 December 2002, 14:08

There ARE diferences. I'll quote Ben Daglish.

Quote:

Ben Daglish dixit:
I prefer AY8192 because the sub-modulated square-generated harmonic frequency distribution was more to my liking.

I tried to find a doc describing the differences between the two, but the only one I found was in russian, so I can't understand pish

mtb · 08 December 2002, 09:55

Thanks to all.

The winamp plugin opens only few ay files and the quality is not so good.

I have tried Zx Spectrum Sound Chip Emulator - the quality and the compatibility is better,
but i don't know how to stream to wav.

I think i have to change something in the control panel to use a file instead of the sound card for output ( i am using a cheap integrated cmedia ).

In control panel -> sound i see:

Audio - playback: options avaible are cmedia wave device and line #0 modem. Is it possible to stream to wav?

Thanx in advance.

mtb · 15 December 2002, 11:48

If someone interested:

Zx Spectrum Sound Chip Emulator :

Russian people are strange...

To save ay or ym files to wave you have to open the PLAYLIST and click with the right mouse button.

mtb · 31 December 2002, 01:10

In that program there is also a switch ay - ym. The difference is quite noticeable!

Amiga1992 · 01 January 2003, 01:06

I told you they were NOT the same.

01 January 2003, 12:58

The only difference I noticed is that the AY volume is slightly louder. They sound the same in every other respect.

Amiga1992 · 01 January 2003, 17:22

Well, as I said, if I could read russian, I would tell you the differences. but they are there

Seems like the parameters behave differently so they don't synthesize the same way.

mtb · 04 January 2003, 13:27

@akira

i know you told me they are different. With that program you can also ear the difference, confirming what you wrote.

mtb · 24 February 2003, 21:06

I have mailed the author of ZxSpectrumSoundChipEmulator ( Sergey Bulba ):

Article about AY and YM differences you can find at my site (http://bulba.at.kz), but it in Russian. So, I'll tell you something now. For listener AY is a little bit louder than YM, because of YM has some steep DAC output graph (YM is closer to logarithmic, than AY). Therefore some music melodies on AY can be called as "legato" and on YM as "staccato". Some musicians use special effect - sound via envelope generator (some cool bases). So, such effects will be different on AY and YM (AY little bit silent without some hi freq harmonics). Main cause is different DACs and also AY has only 16 output levels on envelope generating, and YM has 32 ones.

AY-3-8912 and AY-3-8910 both has identical sound, only YM2149 is a little different sound. But they are complete software analogs anyway.

Amiga1992 · 24 February 2003, 21:42

Thanks for that info!

25 February 2003, 14:12

I suggest you use the excellent Deliplayer (PC version) for streaming instead of Winamp. V2 beta is out and is very neat.

Amiga1992 · 25 February 2003, 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Zilog
I suggest you use the excellent Deliplayer (PC version) for streaming instead of Winamp. V2 beta is out and is very neat.

But the AY replayer is not as accurate as the russian program's one.

25 February 2003, 16:37

stupid me !! RIGHT !! :hoo :hoo :hoo

Antiriad · 26 February 2003, 21:08

I was going to write to the guys behind the Catweasel Mk3 why they hadnt considered having the option to stick a AY-YM chip in there as an alternative to a SID

03 December 2002, 23:03	#1
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	AY-YM chips What are the differences between the ay-3 8192 sound chip ( used by spectrum 128k and amstrad cpc ), the ym-2149 used bu the atari st and the one ( i think ym-2160 ) used by sega megadrive ( i suppose this last has got more channels )? I like a lot the tune from the speccy game zub ( mastertronic ). Does someone is able to tell me how can i stream it to wav ? Thanx in advance.

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04 December 2002, 00:35	#2
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	The YM 2160 is not compatible with the other two, it's a whole new chip. But the AY8192 and the YM2149 are almost the same. I think the differences between them lie in the way both generate the waveforms, and nothing else. So you oculd theoretically take a tune done in a YM2149, and play it in an AY8192, but they will sound different. The frequencies at which they run in teh different machines are different too. It's not the same in the Speccy 128k, the Amstrad CPC or the Atari ST. Hope that helps Ah, about streaming.. There are a number of Winamp plugins for that purpose.

04 December 2002, 09:04	#3
Tommo Posts: n/a	The AY8192 and the YM2149 are exactly the same. There isn't any difference in the way they generate waveforms.

08 December 2002, 09:55	#5
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	Thanks to all. The winamp plugin opens only few ay files and the quality is not so good. I have tried Zx Spectrum Sound Chip Emulator - the quality and the compatibility is better, but i don't know how to stream to wav. I think i have to change something in the control panel to use a file instead of the sound card for output ( i am using a cheap integrated cmedia ). In control panel -> sound i see: Audio - playback: options avaible are cmedia wave device and line #0 modem. Is it possible to stream to wav? Thanx in advance.

15 December 2002, 11:48	#6
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	If someone interested: Zx Spectrum Sound Chip Emulator : Russian people are strange... To save ay or ym files to wave you have to open the PLAYLIST and click with the right mouse button.

31 December 2002, 01:10	#7
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	In that program there is also a switch ay - ym. The difference is quite noticeable!

01 January 2003, 01:06	#8
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I told you they were NOT the same.

01 January 2003, 12:58	#9
Tommo Posts: n/a	The only difference I noticed is that the AY volume is slightly louder. They sound the same in every other respect.

01 January 2003, 17:22	#10
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Well, as I said, if I could read russian, I would tell you the differences. but they are there Seems like the parameters behave differently so they don't synthesize the same way.

04 January 2003, 13:27	#11
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	@akira i know you told me they are different. With that program you can also ear the difference, confirming what you wrote.

24 February 2003, 21:06	#12
mtb Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Italy Age: 40 Posts: 466	I have mailed the author of ZxSpectrumSoundChipEmulator ( Sergey Bulba ): Article about AY and YM differences you can find at my site (http://bulba.at.kz), but it in Russian. So, I'll tell you something now. For listener AY is a little bit louder than YM, because of YM has some steep DAC output graph (YM is closer to logarithmic, than AY). Therefore some music melodies on AY can be called as "legato" and on YM as "staccato". Some musicians use special effect - sound via envelope generator (some cool bases). So, such effects will be different on AY and YM (AY little bit silent without some hi freq harmonics). Main cause is different DACs and also AY has only 16 output levels on envelope generating, and YM has 32 ones. AY-3-8912 and AY-3-8910 both has identical sound, only YM2149 is a little different sound. But they are complete software analogs anyway.

24 February 2003, 21:42	#13
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	Thanks for that info!

25 February 2003, 14:12	#14
Zilog Posts: n/a	I suggest you use the excellent Deliplayer (PC version) for streaming instead of Winamp. V2 beta is out and is very neat.

25 February 2003, 16:37	#16
Zilog Posts: n/a	stupid me !! RIGHT !! :hoo :hoo :hoo

26 February 2003, 21:08	#17
Antiriad The Sacred Armour Of Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sussex, UK Age: 45 Posts: 1,141	I was going to write to the guys behind the Catweasel Mk3 why they hadnt considered having the option to stick a AY-YM chip in there as an alternative to a SID

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