Heretic II

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by zipper

Heretic II is available for download on Hyperion at least for old buyers: 765077527 Bytes 2016-10-21 ISO images of both Heretic II CDs .

How can anyone who isn't an "old buyer" purchase this then?

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Just uploading now, Bin/Cue from ImageBurn <2min remaining...

Disc A is fine, there are no extra tracks on this.

Perfect, thanks

[DamienD]

Ok, so I'm really no "high-end" Amiga expert; very far from it...

In reality I only ever had a real, expanded A500 back in the late 80's / early 90's.

I'm cool with anything OCS / ECS / AGA and have recently managed to get quite a few RTG games working.

...but regarding Heretic II; can this actually be played / run on OS 3.1 / AGA with RTG only?

Or does it required AmigaPPC / WarpOS / PowerUp (which I have no idea how to setup in WinUAE)?

Most of the screenshots in HOL come after [640x480, 24-bit RTG] so I assumed so; hence why I thought I'd give this game a try.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

I think I have ISOs of this already, where should I upload it to on the file server?

Originally Posted by DamienD

Oh that's cool fitzsteve; and would save ProfBong the trouble

Cool! Just wish I'd known before I spent 15-20 minutes rooting through boxes to fetch the game out!!

Originally Posted by DamienD

...but regarding Heretic II; can this actually be played / run on OS 3.1 / AGA with RTG only?

Sorry Damien, this game is PPC only (see the min. specs in the HOL entry for more info.).

The reason for AGA support being included - despite the necessity for a PPC accelerator - was likely the publisher trying to appeal to the A1200 desktop owners back in the day who had a PPC accelerator hanging out of the trapdoor and no room for a gfx card. The game was being published for a very small niche market in 2000, so the publisher needed to support as many Amiga PPC end-users as possible.

Still, I can't imagine that playing this game without a gfx card would have been pleasant on an A1200 without having a top-end 603e PPC card. I certainly wouldn't have done it back then on my A4000, which had a much gruntier 604 PPC card. The whole point of having PPC speed at your disposal in an Amiga, I would've thought, would be to play games with lovely 3D visuals being delivered by much more advanced 2D/3D gfx cards.

Most of the screenshots in HOL come after [640x480, 24-bit RTG] so I assumed so; hence why I thought I'd give this game a try.

I've adjusted the comments on the screenshots to make it abundantly clear for peeps that they were taken with a PPC-equipped Amiga driving the RTG action.

Or does it required AmigaPPC / WarpOS / PowerUp (which I have no idea how to setup in WinUAE)?

There are a few EAB threads that will help you with the lengthy set-up of OS4.x under emulation, but obviously you will need to source out OS4 first and then probably make a few chook sacrifices while drinking heavily!

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=83300 (headkase's step-by-step guide)

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74776 (BinoX's step-by-step guide)

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=99452

[DamienD]

Thanks for all the info Carlo

I think I'll abort then... as I don't really want to mess around with OS4.x.

Classic OS 3.1 is where the Amiga stops for me.

[fitzsteve]

It works in in 3.9 (in fact I didn't know it was compatible with OS4.) I'll give it a go with WinUAE see how I get on.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Thanks for all the info Carlo

I think I'll abort then... as I don't really want to mess around with OS4.x.

Classic OS 3.1 is where the Amiga stops for me.

Fair enough! The OS4 installation under emulation doesn't exactly look like a piece of cake from what I've read anyway.

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

It works in in 3.9 (in fact I didn't know it was compatible with OS4.) I'll give it a go with WinUAE see how I get on.

True for the open-source conversions of Heretic. It would be utterly surprising for a commercial Amiga release of Heretic II, though, unless Hyperion released a 68K patch at some late stage (but the only update patch I have is PPC). Given what NovaCoder has been able to achieve in his open-source conversions of FPS games from the PC, I wonder what he could've achieved with the source code of Heretic II on overclocked 060 systems with AGA/RTG.

Anyway, the game developer Hyperion reckon the game is PPC only in both the game manual and on their website! From the FAQ on their website:

Technical Requirements

OS 3.0 or higher
PPC (supported through WarpOS) and AGA
64 MB minimum, more recommended
3D acceleration supported through Warp3D (OpenGL)
Soundcards supported through AHI
4x CD ROM
350 MB free harddrive space


Will Heretic II run on AGA?

The AGA version already runs at acceptable speed on PPC.


Is there a 68k version?

Even on an overclocked 060/66 and after extensive assembly optimisation the software renderer version proved too slow. With 3D hardware acceleration the same system can on occassion reach 20 fps regardless of the resolution. The calculation of the geometry however regularly proves too much for even an overclocked 060.

[James]

Originally Posted by DrBong

Doubtful, unless they released a 68K patch at some late stage (but the only update patch I have is PPC). Anyway, the game developer Hyperion states otherwise! From the FAQ on their website:

Will Heretic II run on AGA?

The AGA version already runs at acceptable speed on PPC.

This game is for OS3 with a PPC expansion. PPC does not mean OS4.

Originally Posted by DrBong

Is there a 68k version?

They made one -possibly incomplete, but it was never released.
Voodoo3 cards became available after Heretic2 was released, and I remember them saying that they had tested a 68k version on it and it would have been viable.
The CVPPC was too slow, so they had dropped the 68k version.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by James

This game is for OS3 with a PPC expansion. PPC does not mean OS4.

Quite right - I should have been explicitly clear about that! You still need to install certain versions of WarpOS/3D, CyberGraphX/Picasso96, AHI etc. etc., though. If you want to get the best performance out of the game - even under emulation - it will take some work. I'm guessing an OS4 installation might achieve better performance for not too much more effort, but I'll leave the emulation experts to comment on that one.

They made one -possibly incomplete, but it was never released.
Voodoo3 cards became available after Heretic2 was released, and I remember them saying that they had tested a 68k version on it and it would have been viable.
The CVPPC was too slow so they had dropped the 68k version.

Yep, Hyperion say as much in their FAQ (see above). Still, it makes me wonder what NovaCoder might've been able to achieve if he had access to the source code!

Anyway, the answer still remains the same....the game won't work on 68K. It's a PPC-only game and will take some effort to get it working optimally on real hardware and under emulation. I can certainly attest to the fact that it wasn't easy to get running properly on real hardware back in the day. The first release delivered on the game CDs was buggy, although life was made a little easier once the Heretic 2 update patch was released.

If people do attempt to install the game on an AGA/PPC set-up, then AHI should be avoided if there is no sound card present. Installing AHI without a sound card will just slow the game down no end on AGA/PPC machines. There are other tweaks that can be made, which are detailed in the Heretic 2 update patch archive and in the FAQ.

[fitzsteve]

I'm pretty sure I had it running on my A4000 with both AGA and Software Rendering/Picasso 4 on my CSPPC back in the day.

I think I ran it at 640x480 thought the picasso but AGA was only 320x200, IIRC performance was good.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

I'm pretty sure I had it running on my A4000 with both AGA and Software Rendering/Picasso 4 on my CSPPC back in the day.

I think I ran it at 640x480 thought the picasso but AGA was only 320x200, IIRC performance was good.

Do you mean you tried something like Wazp3D as a software renderer?

I have to say, your posts are confusing me....if I'm reading your last post correctly, you got the game working on an A4000 with an AGA-RTG/PPC set-up and *not* under 68K as originally thought?

[fitzsteve]

Originally Posted by DrBong

Do you mean you tried something like Wazp3D as a software renderer?

I have to say, your posts are confusing me....if I'm reading your last post correctly, you got the game working on an A4000 with an AGA-RTG/PPC set-up and *not* under 68K as originally thought?

I never claimed the game ran on 68k, its always been PPC. You suggested it worked on OS4, I have only ever played it on OS3.x using PPC.

Yes I have played it in software rendering, no 3D hardware. Straight out of the picasso 4, on the CSPPC I'm sure it ran good in 640x480

I'm also sure I tested the AGA when I had no RTG card and again performance was acceptable but obviously only 320x240

I later ran this game with my A1200 Grex setup in Warp3d using voodoo 3, it was lovely.

Videos are on my YouTube, fitzsteve

[DDNI]

I have managed to run the demo in software rendering mode on OS4.1fe
The installer for the full game is borked on OS4.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

I never claimed the game ran on 68k, its always been PPC.

My apologies to you and Damien for the confusion! I'm a little sleep-deprived right now coz of 12-16 hour work days, so I think I've gone a little cross-eyed reading posts in this thread.

You suggested it worked on OS4, I have only ever played it on OS3.x using PPC.

Yes, I remember it running under an early release of OS4 (classic)....but probably not without a few hurdles to navigate.

Yes I have played it in software rendering, no 3D hardware. Straight out of the picasso 4, on the CSPPC I'm sure it ran good in 640x480

I'm also sure I tested the AGA when I had no RTG card and again performance was acceptable but obviously only 320x240

I later ran this game with my A1200 Grex setup in Warp3d using voodoo 3, it was lovely.

Yep, Wazp3D is pretty good for a software rendering solution! An A1200 with Grex/Voodoo 3 is about as sweet an A1200 set-up too - why did you sell it??!! I wish I'd got my hands on an A4000 version, but unfortunately DCE didn't produce huge numbers of them. Well, as for running Heretic 2 on your A4000 PPC machine under AGA....game speed would've been fine on PAL/NTSC-type screen sizes, but I'm sure it would've chugged on 640x400 or larger.

Videos are on my YouTube, fitzsteve

Yeh, I looked on YT earlier for Heretic II vids on the Amiga....but only came across one that you upped for a souped up A4000 PPC set-up. You did a crapload of different ones for Quake I/II, though, and really went mad scientist on those games! Anyway, time to chow down here and get back to work....

[fitzsteve]

Yeah sorry for the confusion too. Indeed it was a mistake to sell that great hardware but I was out of work at the time. I have a nice A1200 setup now and also an A500+ with vampire and a CD32 so I have most bases covered.

I have a OS4.1 setup on my PC that should run on WinUAE (backup of old HD) so might try that too.

I'm on the list, hopefully for an A1222 as well


Finally I have tried to get Heretic 2 working on my A1200 with Mediator and Killer PPC card but no luck. Has anyone tried it on A4000 with with Mediator/Apocalypse/Ragnarok?

[Hedeon]

Yes. One of my early sonnet vids shows it running.

[DrBong]

Originally Posted by DrBong

An A1200 with Grex/Voodoo 3 is about as sweet an A1200 set-up too - why did you sell it??!! I wish I'd got my hands on an A4000 version, but unfortunately DCE didn't produce huge numbers of them.

Originally Posted by fitzsteve

Indeed it was a mistake to sell that great hardware but I was out of work at the time. I have a nice A1200 setup now and also an A500+ with vampire and a CD32 so I have most bases covered.

What a bummer! That G-Rex would be worth a ton of gold now, not to mention would still be very lovely to have slapped into the A1200.

I have a OS4.1 setup on my PC that should run on WinUAE (backup of old HD) so might try that too.

Maybe you could "lend" it to Damien for testing purposes!

@Damien
Sorry for inadvertedly leading you down the OS4 garden path earlier on! Are you gonna have a crack at installing Heretic II from the ISOs under KS3.x after all?! If you do, don't forget to apply the Heretic 2 update patch afterwards and be sure to let us know how you go with it all.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by DrBong

@Damien
Sorry for inadvertedly leading you down the OS4 garden path earlier on! Are you gonna have a crack at installing Heretic II from the ISOs under KS3.x after all?! If you do, don't forget to apply the Heretic 2 update patch afterwards and be sure to let us know how you go with it all.

No problem at all; it's good to read the associated information from various members

I might in future, but only if it can definitely be run on OS 3.1.

I still need to digest everything said here though

[fitzsteve]

My old OS41 setup isn't working, it was done back in 2014 an old beta version of WinUAE, managed to get WinUAE to boot my A4000T backup though which was kind of cool but Heretic II wouldn't run for some reason (just wont start.) PPC is running.

Was going to update WinUAE to latest but the site is down, I'll try when it's back up. My version of QEMU must be well out of date lol

@DrBong

Sure there's some regrets but I feel privileged to have owned and enjoyed these high end Amiga's when it was possible to buy them for a reasonable price, they're far out of reach now but I have very fond memories and I took a lot of photos and videos.

Edit - got my setup working but think I need to update WinUAE to get Herretic II working... Tries to start now but give WarpOS exception

[redblade]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Thanks for all the info Carlo

I think I'll abort then... as I don't really want to mess around with OS4.x.

Classic OS 3.1 is where the Amiga stops for me.

And your work is greatly appreciated DamienD

[fitzsteve]

WinUAE website was back up today but still cant get Heretic 2 to work. Be interested to hear if anyone else manages to get it going in WinUAE with Qemu. I ran as A4000 with CSPPC and Picasso IV. It just doesn't start. I applied the patch I had from before but I cant apply the second patch as I don't have the serial anymore and the second patch needs you to enter it again...