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Old 22 June 2022, 23:12   #1
macce2
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a SCSI 73GB U320 10K 68pin 3,5" drive and Fastlane

Recently I purchased a new HP Fujitsu 73 Gb 10000 rpm 3,5" hard drive
and a simple 68-p to 68-p Scsi adapter, to be used on my Amiga 4000D with Fastlane controller.
I was planning to replace my old two hard drive (Fujitsu 17 Gb) configuration with the new larger one.


However, I can't get the HDtoolbox to detect my new drive.
There are a couple of jumperings on the drive; I have tried with several
different settings. I don't exactly know what those all are for,

but there's the ID settings, a term enable, narrow/wide (no clue which position is which), some kind of write protect; to name some.


With some jumper settings, the drive doesn't even spin up (!?).
When it does, I get the feeling it can't be 10000 rpm, however ?!
(my old drive is a 7200 rpm one; and one certainly hears, when it spins up)


Should my new hard drive even work with the Fastlane controller ?!


The drive is like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112444291292


Any help appreciated.

i think I'm a little lost.
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Old 22 June 2022, 23:31   #2
Leon Besson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macce2 View Post
Recently I purchased a new HP Fujitsu 73 Gb 10000 rpm 3,5" hard drive
and a simple 68-p to 68-p Scsi adapter, to be used on my Amiga 4000D with Fastlane controller.
I was planning to replace my old two hard drive (Fujitsu 17 Gb) configuration with the new larger one.


However, I can't get the HDtoolbox to detect my new drive.
There are a couple of jumperings on the drive; I have tried with several
different settings. I don't exactly know what those all are for,

but there's the ID settings, a term enable, narrow/wide (no clue which position is which), some kind of write protect; to name some.


With some jumper settings, the drive doesn't even spin up (!?).
When it does, I get the feeling it can't be 10000 rpm, however ?!
(my old drive is a 7200 rpm one; and one certainly hears, when it spins up)


Should my new hard drive even work with the Fastlane controller ?!


The drive is like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112444291292


Any help appreciated.

i think I'm a little lost.
Okay first things first Bromigo!

The 2 drives you have, these are SCSI also?

Are you attempting to connect the new drive with the current drives?

SCSI ID setting of new drive?

Termination set both ends of the SCSI chain? If only the new drive you have enabled termination on, on the new drive.

Does the fast lane SCSI host support U320 SCSI drives? Even the Cyberstorm PPC/060 card I use on my A4K needs an adapter for U320/LVD SCSI drives to work.

You have installed and using the phase 5 SCSI tools? What does unit control show? I.e it should see the new drive to start with. If it doesn’t then HDToolBox won’t either.
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Old 22 June 2022, 23:40   #3
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Yeah; my old drives are 68-p Scsi drives, used with adapters.
I removed my old drives and I'm attempting to connect the new one (with my old external Scsi cd-rom drive, if possible).
No clue about ID, but shouldn't be 4 (which is used for my cd-rom); maybe 0 would be best option !?

Termnation should be ok, I think. I'm using my drives with external Sun boxes with power supplies; and the last one always has a (physical) terminator.

To be honest, I don't know whether my fastlane card should support my new drive;
but it does support wide Scsi-2 drives with adapter(-s). !?
Yes, I have installed my controller card properly.
And it is fully working.
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Old 22 June 2022, 23:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macce2 View Post
Yeah; my old drives are 68-p Scsi drives, used with adapters.
I removed my old drives and I'm attempting to connect the new one (with my old external Scsi cd-rom drive, if possible).
No clue about ID, but shouldn't be 4 (which is used for my cd-rom); maybe 0 would be best option !?

Termnation should be ok, I think. I'm using my drives with external Sun boxes with power supplies; and the last one always has a (physical) terminator.

To be honest, I don't know whether my fastlane card should support my new drive;
but it does support wide Scsi-2 drives with adapter(-s). !?
Yes, I have installed my controller card properly.
And it is fully working.
Normally your first bootable SCSI drive should be ID 0. In most instances not having a jumper on any of the ID Pins = ID 0.
On a lot of the LVD/U320 drives these would be Enterprise type SCSI drives so make sure you don’t have a jumper for the motor start as this takes a queue to start up with a host controller that would tell the drive to start up.

Once you do get the drive to spin then that’s a good sign.

What I would do is try and add the new drive with the older drives and use the phase 5 SCSI tools such as “Unit Control” to see if it get recognised. But to do that try and set an ID which doesn’t conflict.
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Old 23 June 2022, 19:43   #5
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Are you using a modern version of HDToolbox? Older versions don't like big drives. I imagine you are as your old ones are 17GB
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Old 23 June 2022, 21:43   #6
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Yes, i'm using the HDToolbox version that came with OS3.9 (and BB(-s) ?!);
don't remember the version number.
I also tried the "special" version that came with the Network boot disk, released earlier this year.
I have played with some different jumper settings etc, with no success so far.

The drive has the following jumpering options (in addition to the IDs):

WRITE PROT
START CMD
NARROW/WIDE
DIFFSENS
N.C
IDD RESET
LED
TERM PWR EN
.

I'd like to add that I don't personally think that this is a termination problem of Scsi bus. (!?)
If there could also be some kind of "termination" problem regarding the conversion of the signal of the connection pins ("stupid" adapter) or something; I don't know..
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Old 23 June 2022, 22:47   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macce2 View Post
Yes, i'm using the HDToolbox version that came with OS3.9 (and BB(-s) ?!);
don't remember the version number.
I also tried the "special" version that came with the Network boot disk, released earlier this year.
I have played with some different jumper settings etc, with no success so far.

The drive has the following jumpering options (in addition to the IDs):

WRITE PROT
START CMD
NARROW/WIDE
DIFFSENS
N.C
IDD RESET
LED
TERM PWR EN
.

I'd like to add that I don't personally think that this is a termination problem of Scsi bus. (!?)
If there could also be some kind of "termination" problem regarding the conversion of the signal of the connection pins ("stupid" adapter) or something; I don't know..
Maybe worth RTFM here; https://www.manualslib.com/products/...p-9440235.html

And Jumpers here; https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...jumper-setting
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Old 24 June 2022, 00:46   #8
macce2
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Thank you, Leon Besson ! Lazy me for not doing a more complete web search .
However, with quick studying; I didn't find what "N.C" is for ?!
And to enable "IDD reset" or not ..?!
More testing .
Btw, there's some kind of "connector" ; a narrower one, on the back of the drive, near the cable connector..
Two rows of "pins" ( sorry for not attaching a picture here)..
What's it for ?
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Old 24 June 2022, 04:14   #9
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You want to set the Narrow settings of Narrow/Wide. I've used 300GB U320 SCSI drives with SCA to 50 or 68pin adapters and as long as I set Narrow or SE (single-ended) they worked with a Fastlane, A4091, Warpengine, GVP Trexx-II, CSPPC, I think also a GVP GForce 030.
If HDToolbox is not detecting your drive, and you're not sure what ID it is set to, what is your current SCSI HDD's ID?

If lastdrive is set on your current HD and the new drive has a higher ID number the SCSI controller won't look for drives past whatever drive has lastdrive set to.
Example:
Panaphonics 2X CDROM : Unit 0
40GB Quantum Fireball drive : Unit 1
Iomega Jaz Drive: Unit 4 LASTDRIVE set
<New Drive added> : Unit 5
Maxoptix Tahiti Magneto Optical drive: Unit 6

Nothing after the Jaz drive is going to be looked for, unless I didn't set the Jaz drive as Lastdrive or the cartridge is ejected, then it will keep scanning to ID 7. If I did set the Jaz drive as the Lastdrive and the cartridge spun up then it's not going to scan for IDs past that. That's why Luc Binks says make your HDD as ID 0, it boots faster that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Besson View Post
If you look at this, to me it reads that the settings are on if they are jumpered.
4 jumpers at the beginning for ID:15, remove all of those and that should be ID:0. Look at your other SCSI IDs in HDToolbox.
Jumper Force Narrow 11-12 and Force Single Ended 13-14.

Many 10,000 RPM drives are very quiet compared to old roaring 7200 RPM drives. If you think it's spinning up at all, you should be able to hear/feel it.

Last edited by grelbfarlk; 24 June 2022 at 04:28.
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Old 24 June 2022, 06:58   #10
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what grelb said and make sure hdtoolbox is set to use the fastlane device name in the tooltypes or it won't see any drives.
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Old 24 June 2022, 14:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post
what grelb said and make sure hdtoolbox is set to use the fastlane device name in the tooltypes or it won't see any drives.
As this guys says in a way......

Make a copy of HDToolBox & rename it Z3 HDToolBox.

Highlight your Z3 HDToolBox & change the Tooltype to Z3scsi.device from scsi.device.

Providing the Card is Jumpered correctly, the SCI Bus is terminated correctly, your Hard Drive is functional and has a Logical I.D. number, you should now see your drive.

HDToolBox's default Tooltype will list scsi.device by default.

Most aftermarket SCSI controllers have their own unique & often Logical name.device

If you do all this & still can't see the Hard Drive, it's probably because getting an UW SCSI Device onto a 50 Way Ribbon is not as straight forward as it sounds.

You MUST terminate everything over 50 Pins on the UW device you are connecting or the SCSI controller will NOT talk to it. The UW device is left on the SCSI bus confused & unable to talk back to it's host & stand ready initialised & ready to go.

Last edited by Kin Hell; 24 June 2022 at 15:06.
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Old 24 June 2022, 17:04   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell View Post
You MUST terminate everything over 50 Pins on the UW device you are connecting or the SCSI controller will NOT talk to it. The UW device is left on the SCSI bus confused & unable to talk back to it's host & stand ready initialised & ready to go.
I suppose this: Jumper Force Narrow 11-12 does it
and Force Single Ended 13-14 must be set!
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Old 24 June 2022, 22:46   #13
macce2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Besson View Post

Sorry, this appears to be different drive..




Here's a more accurate picture of similar drive to mine:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112444291292


If you zoom the image a little, you can find out that there's no
such jumperings as "Force Narrow 11-12 or Force Single Ended 13-14"
mentioned at all, on the chart on the label.
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Old 25 June 2022, 00:03   #14
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It has Narrow/Wide right there on the label.
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Old 25 June 2022, 00:15   #15
Leon Besson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macce2 View Post
Sorry, this appears to be different drive..




Here's a more accurate picture of similar drive to mine:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112444291292


If you zoom the image a little, you can find out that there's no
such jumperings as "Force Narrow 11-12 or Force Single Ended 13-14"
mentioned at all, on the chart on the label.
Not helpful Bromigo!

It would help if you state the Model of drive you have. That link is exactly the same link you provided earlier, which prompted me to use Google to find the manual…

Time to bail! Mang!
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Old 25 June 2022, 00:48   #16
macce2
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Oh, I'm sorry.

I have attached here a picture I took from my item.
It has the identical jumperings chart, I think.
Sure, I will try to use the "narrow" setting;
that must be with the closed jumper position(!?).
But to enable single-ended mode; no clue how to
do that ?!

Anyway, right now it's midsummer festival here in
Finland; but I'll do some more testing soon.




I
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Old 25 June 2022, 02:38   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kin Hell View Post
As this guys says in a way......

Highlight your Z3 HDToolBox & change the Tooltype to Z3scsi.device from scsi.device.

This is the way.

I have a fastlane and an ultra320 drive. Works fine. I never had to fiddle with the jumper settings and when I did, it always saw the drive.

Lastly, what version of the fastlane z3 rom do you have OP? This shouldn't be a big issue, but if you'd like the latest version (8.5), I'd be happy to burn and send you one no charge.

J
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Old 25 June 2022, 02:57   #18
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Many thanks, jrobbins70;
but I already have v8.5 rom written to my Fastlane card.
I don' t lnow, if that' s an issue, but my card itself,
is not of the latest revision; was it 1.2 (??!);
will check that out.

Regarding the usage of HDToolbox;
Yes, of course i use it with the z3scsi.device
attribute.
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Old 25 June 2022, 03:31   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macce2 View Post
Many thanks, jrobbins70;
but I already have v8.5 rom written to my Fastlane card.
I don' t lnow, if that' s an issue, but my card itself,
is not of the latest revision; was it 1.2 (??!);
will check that out.

Regarding the usage of HDToolbox;
Yes, of course i use it with the z3scsi.device
attribute.

Fastlane v1.2 is the latest version and you already have the latest rom.

Can you get the drive to work in any other machine with SCSI? Is it possible that the drive itself is bad? I have an old drive from back in the day that no scsi controller can see. The spin up sound is very unhealthy too.

Try to narrow down the issue. Termination is important on a 68 pin cable, so make sure your drive is the last device on the cable and the only device connected (for testing).

J
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Old 25 June 2022, 11:16   #20
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@ macce2

Simple 50 to 68 pin adapters like the £5.95 eBay affairs, do not terminate the extra 18 data lines (9 are grounds)

See #16 post here back in 2009....

https://www.amibay.com/forum/amibaye...ge2#post159206

& mention of the SCSI Shop on post #20.

Most of the pics are gone from that thread, but the SCSI issue pics survived.

Get one of these and all should be golden, if you have the card set/jumper'ed right.

68 Pin to 50 Pin SCSI Adapter Male to Male


Guessing HD in A4KD....?

Set termination to on for Hard drive with a 50 way ribbon to Z3 internal header from the suggested adapter.
An internal SCSI CD will be a tight squeeze unless you have a smaller sized PSU. If you are, make sure the HD is on the end of the SCSI chain still terminated but don't forget to un-terminate the CD if it has a jumper & is set so.

If you go external just for the CD in a box & the CDROM doesn't have a Termination Jumper, you'll need to terminate the end of the cable after the CDROM.

Likewise, if you run two SCSI Hard drives in the A4KD, un-terminate the physical drive between the last drive & the Z3 SCSI header.

Last edited by Kin Hell; 25 June 2022 at 11:43.
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