New Universal Agnus 8372, 75 etc

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by Gorf

nice and elegant trick ...
Probably visually good enough, but PWM @ 4x the pixel clock is not enough for encoding 32 values, is it?
It will be interesting to see how resistance ladders and Vidiot will handle such a signal

Low Oversampling Ratio Sigma-Delta Noise Shaper could work instead plain PWM - Analog Devices offered Delta Sigma (as a noise shaping) in their video DAC's (it was called NSV) - with 4 bits Vidiot DAC - 3rd-order..4th-order DS probably will work with 6..8 times oversampling...

Vidiot works with VGA so it may work with such signal but alternatively new Vidiot build around 74AC and R2R resistor network could be better (i would expect 60..80MHz bandwidth with reasonable resistor values - bellow 1k).

[grelbfarlk]

Maybe you're not thinking fourth dimensionally again. Hardware as a service is all the rage nowadays. So what if you just crank the refresh rate really high and display 3 frames per refresh, like triple interlacing, but use different colors on them so then like people could take a nutritional supplement and sync their eyes and brains to the higher refresh rate which merges all of the color fields together, resulting in at least 10-bit per channel color.
But if people want to experience really good colors they have to order the nutritional supplements from you.

[nonarkitten]

Originally Posted by Gorf

nice and elegant trick ...
Probably visually good enough, but PWM @ 4x the pixel clock is not enough for encoding 32 values, is it?
It will be interesting to see how resistance ladders and Vidiot will handle such a signal

Superhires already is losing some contrast on ECS, so it's probably close to the knee already. Filtering kicks in pretty quick beyond this point.

[nonarkitten]

Originally Posted by pandy71

Low Oversampling Ratio Sigma-Delta Noise Shaper could work instead plain PWM - Analog Devices offered Delta Sigma (as a noise shaping) in their video DAC's (it was called NSV) - with 4 bits Vidiot DAC - 3rd-order..4th-order DS probably will work with 6..8 times oversampling...

Vidiot works with VGA so it may work with such signal but alternatively new Vidiot build around 74AC and R2R resistor network could be better (i would expect 60..80MHz bandwidth with reasonable resistor values - bellow 1k).

Yeah PDM is awesome. iCE40 HX can do a 16-bit adder at 220MHz and PDM is just the output of the carry from that adder. So we should easily be able to do a 5-bit adder at the same speed.

Lets say we only run that at 114MHz. That gives us 2 effective bits within a superhires pixel or 555RGB (remember, ECS can only do 222RGB); 3 effective bits at hires, or 666RGB and 4 effective bits at lowres or 777RGB.

I know it's not quite what a real 1200 or 4000 can output, but this is also through the vidiot, and superhires was already filtered by it on real hardware.

[nonarkitten]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

Maybe you're not thinking fourth dimensionally again. Hardware as a service is all the rage nowadays. So what if you just crank the refresh rate really high and display 3 frames per refresh, like triple interlacing, but use different colors on them so then like people could take a nutritional supplement and sync their eyes and brains to the higher refresh rate which merges all of the color fields together, resulting in at least 10-bit per channel color.
But if people want to experience really good colors they have to order the nutritional supplements from you.

Well, given that I hate "the Cloud", hate software-as-a-service, hate temporal dithering and think nutritional supplements are the biggest scam ever, I'd say the odds of me doing anything like this isn't great. But hey, you never know, right? I could get swapped out by my evil twin from the mirror universe.

[grelbfarlk]

It sounds like you are not monetizing your efforts. You should say how you are delivering Aaa+ graphics but just release the extra bits of Blue first. Next year if people want deeper reds they can pay another $40, and all of the game developers will rush to your solution to deliver better sunsets in the games they will make for it. But wait, a year later you can unlock the extra green bits and a whole new generation of games will be produced, which people can subscribe to for another $40. Make sure you serial code every single chip you produce so they can't mix or match and only people who upgraded all of the chips in the chipset can use them for the yearly release.

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

...

Why are you doing this?

[nonarkitten]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

It sounds like you are not monetizing your efforts. You should say how you are delivering Aaa+ graphics but just release the extra bits of Blue first. Next year if people want deeper reds they can pay another $40, and all of the game developers will rush to your solution to deliver better sunsets in the games they will make for it. But wait, a year later you can unlock the extra green bits and a whole new generation of games will be produced, which people can subscribe to for another $40. Make sure you serial code every single chip you produce so they can't mix or match and only people who upgraded all of the chips in the chipset can use them for the yearly release.

I plan on monetizing it by selling something to people who want to buy it for a fair and modest profit. I know it's a little "old school," but I'm not a capitalist and anything I make helps me spend more time making more cool Amiga stuff.

[grelbfarlk]

Well you can do that for sure, and it's appreciated but it seems like a very old school thing to do and it makes it seem like you're not teasing enough, just like delivering things you said.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Gorf

Why are you doing this?

A sick and twisted sense of humour with a dash of trolling I'd assume

[pandy71]

Originally Posted by TCD

A sick and twisted sense of humour with a dash of trolling I'd assume

not sure... USA people are very focused on profit - honestly in last 20+ years i never met USA person not asking first: "how much i can earn" .

Squeezing every cent and compete is unspoken USA motto - greediness founded USA...

[Gorf]

Originally Posted by pandy71

not sure... USA people are very focused on profit - honestly in last 20+ years i never met USA person not asking first: "how much i can earn" .

Squeezing every cent and compete is unspoken USA motto - greediness founded USA...

But the suggestions made are far from serious - this looks very much like an attempt to ridicule this project to me.
"grelbfarlk" did not answer my question - so I have to assume it is in deed trolling.

[grelbfarlk]

We are trying to work on the Amiga singularity. Nonarkitten seems to have the best chance of achieving it. People love subscriptions now so I was just throwing out some Web 3.1 ideas that the public enjoys. Which she doesn't want to do any of that, which is good for us.

And yes, greed was invented by the US and A, why I just heard about this idea to make an Amiga information website that would cost money to read, by noted American David Pleasance.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by grelbfarlk

And yes, greed was invented by the US and A, why I just heard about this idea to make an Amiga information website that would cost money to read, by noted American David Pleasance.

I'm afraid you lost them by this point. By all means go on.

[kipper2k]

I like to sell some so i can raise funds for the next project and also pay for bits and pieces. I stopped selling overseas when claims were made that items never worked/never received etc.Paypal ruled against me a couple of times so i just gave up selling. Canada/US is ok as mailing costs are not too bad, but very few europeans are willing to pay the cost of the shipping.

I do not like the idea of unofficial cloners who would love to take advantage of this project and i will not offer any info/help to those people at all, Sometimes i don't like to say how builds etc are done as i am just feeding them and lets be honest, because of their geographic location they could probably sell cheaper.

What is the solution, rely on people buying to pay a % of their purchase price to the Devs. (Yah, i know, good luck with that.)

People want open source but in reality Devs get really peed off when others cash in on your work

[grelbfarlk]

Originally Posted by TCD

I'm afraid you lost them by this point. By all means go on.

Yeah so that whole thing about no taxation without representation during the Murcan revolution was just greed. After all self determinism is also a form of greed.


Anyway, which reminds me Kipper, an idea I had many years ago was to build a Waveblaster MIDI interface to clip over PLCC Paula, just needs the serial pins to interface with it and I was going to just output via a CD-Audio header. But since you all are going to make a Paula replacement anyway you could just dump the output into the stereo output instead. Just needs a little bitty 26 pin header on it. It would work just like any Serial Midi device, so no software support needed.



https://www.serdashop.com/DreamBlasterX2

[nonarkitten]

Originally Posted by pandy71

not sure... USA people are very focused on profit - honestly in last 20+ years i never met USA person not asking first: "how much i can earn" .

Squeezing every cent and compete is unspoken USA motto - greediness founded USA...

I’m not American.

[Promilus]

Originally Posted by kipper2k

People want open source but in reality Devs get really peed off when others cash in on your work

Ppl want opensource because that's a fancy trend (not because they want to contribute to development). And some want opensource because they are leeches trying to feed on released hw/sw solutions by making clones without any support on their side. Easy money, zero responsibility. And a lot of disappointed customers blaming original developers.

[Pyromania]

@pandy71

Agreed many in the USA want that make that almighty profit. I would guess because the United States is very focused on money because you just won’t survive in this country without money. Everything cost lots of money and people are trying to sell you things 24/7. Many but not all are trying to collect the most possessions and keep up with the Joneses. Lots of depression, anger and envy in the US and A as Borat would call the county. It’s kind of ruthless in the US sometimes and that’s part of the dark side of the country I live in. I had a more relaxed environment when I was in Greece when I was 5 years old. No worries back then. There are still tons of nice people in the US especially if they know what an Amiga is so good and bad people everywhere. Hopefully more good people, I’m an optimist.

[AJCopland]

Can we drop the off-topic, profit, trolling, and anti-open source stuff?

Please, for once.

This has so far been a fascinating thread about really cool work done by by nonarkitten and kipper2k and it'd be really nice to keep it that way