17 October 2022, 19:53 | #1 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
CHD format not as good as people make out ?
Hi, i've converted some CD32 and CDTV games to CHD format but i'm noticing some oddities with the files. For instance,
Battle Chess - Makes a very loud buzz noise when starting a game for about a second (it scared the life out of me!) The Clue - A lot of the speech doesn't play the first second or so and sometimes no speech at all. Tie Break - Same as The Clue, the speech doesn't always play properly and sometimes not at all. Base Jumpers - Some white noise during logo. Not sure what's causing this. If I extract the CHD's back to CUE/BIN then they play fine. I'm using CHDMAN v5. Any other users of CHD's experiencing this (or not noticed ?). Are there better conversion flags to use to prevent this ? |
18 October 2022, 10:26 | #2 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
@Ian
@Retroplay I read in another thread that you have converted a lot (or all) of your CD collection to the CHD format. Have you not experienced any of the issues I noted ? Or maybe you just haven't used them since you converted them all! I've only played 8 games in this CHD format and found 4 issues already (as stated in the first post). |
18 October 2022, 20:40 | #3 |
Lemon Curry ?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denmark
Age: 49
Posts: 4,140
|
I tried Base Jumpers CD32, redump image converted to chd v5.
WinUAE = buzz sound at Rasputin logo MAME = no problem, audio is playing as it should. |
19 October 2022, 00:15 | #4 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
So it's a bug in WinUAE ? The 2 games with speech (The Clue and Tie break) are a bit annoying as it only plays part of the speech. As I said, i've only tried about 8 games so far and half of them have oddities. I'm wondering whether to hold off on converting to CHD.
|
19 October 2022, 03:58 | #5 |
Commodork
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Finland
Posts: 83
|
The more there are tracks in the image, the more they begin to start at the wrong place, as in later than they should.
Easily noticed for example with Pinball Illusions since it has 39 tracks, and especially with the last table which uses the tracks at the end of the disc. Better way to confirm is to copy and force the image as an audio CD by editing the first data track as audio in the CUE file, so that launching the disc boots the audio player. I made a tiny change in the CHD code for libretro PUAE core, which makes CHD image sound exactly like the raw image. The image format is not to blame, but the reading of it. |
19 October 2022, 05:26 | #6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Omnicorp
Age: 45
Posts: 5,912
|
All the games you mention work fine with Latest WinUae for me..
Battle Chess - No Buzz The Clue - Speech is perfect Tie Break - Speech is perfect Base Jumpers - No White Noise Pinball Illusions (Last Table) Extreme Sports - Works identical to my BIN/CUE/WAV version... Both copies on the last table's music after about 3 seconds launching the ball has a slight music silent pause. I assume that is how the game is made. I have the CHD's and the CHDMAN I used so if you need send me a PM Last edited by ransom1122; 19 October 2022 at 05:41. |
19 October 2022, 11:06 | #7 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
Thanks for the replies guys. I tried the files you uploaded for me ransom1122, thanks. Your 'Battle Chess' and 'Base Jumpers' have no buzz/white noise but the speech on 'The Clue' intro still only plays part of each sentence or doesn't play at all. Your CHDMAN version is mame0200. The one I use is mame0205. I tried converting Battle Chess again using your CHDMAN but I still get that really loud buzz when starting the game/tutorial !! I've used the redump version.
So why doesn't the speech play properly ? It's like it waits before it decides to play the sample and if the sample is short then you don't hear the beginning or anything. |
19 October 2022, 12:03 | #8 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
So I did a couple of tests. I downloaded the TOSEC versions of 'Battle Chess' and 'Base Jumpers', converted them to CHD and got NO loud buzzing/white noise (as stated above). So my solution to those problems are don't use ReDump when converting to CHD !!
When testing Battle Chess with CHD, the music starts abruptly like it's missed the first second or so (even on yours Ransom!). This doesn't happen when using CUE/BIN. So it's not starting the audio at the correct time. Is this the correct behaviour of CHD (even on MAME ?) or is it a WinUAE thing ? |
19 October 2022, 12:04 | #9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Omnicorp
Age: 45
Posts: 5,912
|
I may have had the correct version of chdman and source files to begin with, without even knowing.
Try to experiment with multiple versions of chdman then if that fails use a different game source I guess |
19 October 2022, 12:51 | #10 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
@sonninos
I tried what you said about editing the cue file so that is plays as an audio CD then converted it to CHD. I tried Battle Chess and all the audio tracks seem to be silent for 2 or 3 seconds before the audio starts abruptly. So CHD starts playing the audio track but you can't hear it until a few seconds later. Is this the correct behaviour of CHD ? |
19 October 2022, 17:18 | #11 | |
Commodork
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Finland
Posts: 83
|
Quote:
No it is not correct CHD behavior. Try the same file for example with a Sega CD emulator or some other that has a CD audio player built in. I can't make that same thing happen anywhere else except with WinUAE now that I found a cure in PUAE (which mainly uses WinUAE code). And sure seems scary that an older version of chdman would do it right.. |
|
19 October 2022, 18:20 | #12 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
So I just tried the Battle Chess CHD I made (that only plays the audio) in the GenesisPlusGX emulator in Retroarch and the audio tracks play fine ! No silence before the tracks start playing. So that means it's a problem with WinUAE ?
Here is the Battle Chess Audio CHD I made, (tracks 1 & 2 are the same) - https://mega.nz/file/eop2GQ6I#pFOosh...h1KjZPzXXD_sMM If you load it in WinUAE or Retroarch PUAE you will get a pause at the beginning of every audio track. In GenesisPlusGX the tracks play instantly and not cut off. Last edited by liveevil; 19 October 2022 at 18:31. Reason: Added test download link |
19 October 2022, 18:56 | #13 |
Lemon Curry ?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denmark
Age: 49
Posts: 4,140
|
Try and load the chd in MAME, use this command:
Code:
mame cd32 -cdrom "[path to chd]/Battle Chess (Europe).chd" WinUAE doesn't like it though, buzz before audio plays. |
19 October 2022, 20:03 | #14 |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,574
|
If there is already a fix and confirmed working CHD do work in other emulators, I'd like to see the fix first.
|
19 October 2022, 20:59 | #15 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
Unfortunately I know nothing about code. The CHD link I posted above was made from Battle Chess CD32. I just made it so it would boot straight to the CD32 CD player. When playing any track there is a few seconds silence at the beginning of every track. When booting the CHD in the GenesisPlusGX CD player the tracks play instantly with no delay. Retroplay said that MAME also works better but I don't know how to run it. I didn't know CD32 was working on that. https://github.com/ekeeke/Genesis-Plus-GX/search?q=chd No idea what to look for, if anyone can help.
|
19 October 2022, 21:06 | #16 |
Lemon Curry ?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denmark
Age: 49
Posts: 4,140
|
Did some testing with Battle Chess CD32.
It seems mode1/2352 raw audio is the culprit regarding WinUAE and the audio glitch. TOSEC image: Mode1/2048 + WAV audio converted to chd plays audio fine. Redump image: Mode1/2352 + raw audio converted to chd is problematic and makes the static scratching/buzzing sound. |
19 October 2022, 21:19 | #17 |
WinUAE developer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 49
Posts: 26,574
|
Ah, that could explain it because my test files seemed to work.
|
19 October 2022, 21:19 | #18 |
Custom User Title
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 331
|
Thanks for testing Retroplay. Would you mind trying the CHD from the link I posted to see if the audio tracks play without a delay in the MAME CD32 CD player ?
|
19 October 2022, 21:44 | #19 | |
Commodork
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Finland
Posts: 83
|
Quote:
Code:
TRACK 01 AUDIO PREGAP 00:02:00 INDEX 01 00:00:00 TRACK 02 AUDIO PREGAP 00:02:00 INDEX 01 01:57:02 TRACK 03 AUDIO INDEX 00 03:54:04 INDEX 01 03:56:04 TRACK 04 AUDIO INDEX 00 06:27:06 INDEX 01 06:29:06 I tried to update the CHD handling code in PUAE with current MAME code, and that fixed those PREGAP tracks, but not yet those with double INDEX. But I'll keep looking, since indeed GenesisPlusGX plays everything fine.. |
|
19 October 2022, 21:50 | #20 |
Lemon Curry ?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Denmark
Age: 49
Posts: 4,140
|
There are 2 second gaps specified in TOSEC and Redump cue sheets for Battle Chess CD32.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
CHD format | Ian | project.TOSEC (amiga only) | 32 | 31 July 2020 08:04 |
Make HDF (or other format) image of real Amiga CompactFlash HD? | ProdigalAmigan | support.Other | 2 | 23 July 2019 19:48 |
Amiga titles that would make good boardgames | pubzombie | Retrogaming General Discussion | 17 | 29 January 2012 21:45 |
Hello good people! | MaximumRD | Member Introductions | 10 | 26 June 2010 15:51 |
People like this make me MAD | ChrisBrownUK | MarketPlace | 6 | 30 October 2005 07:59 |
|
|