A590 and 4gb hard drive

[2E0TMF]

Hi,I have an Amiga a590 and have just fitted a pair of 7.0 roms in the hope of upgrading the hard drive to maybe 4gig max?
The hard drive that i have taken out of the a590 is a 20mb scsi one and i have just fitted a seagate 4gb scsi one.When i use the hdtoolbox from my OS 3.1 install disk i can see the hard drive is on address 6 LUN 0 and that's all? When i click on the change drive i can get to read the make and model but can't seem to find the drive size? I have tried manually entering the parameters for 4gb and then able to go to partition which automatically splits the drive in two parts but then i go to click to save and i get an error-1 write and if i click on low level format the light on the drive stay on and nothing appears to be happening?

In my Amiga 500+ i have 3.1 roms on a rom switcher with 2.0 rom and 2mb internal memory,plus 2mb external expansion of memory between the amiga and the a590 and 2mb of memory in the a590.

I would really apreciate anyone who can help as i really would like to have a bigger hard drive oppose to the 20mb scsi one.
Iv'e only managed to run one WHDLOAD game from the 20mb hard drive at a time LOL but was fun to play off the hard drive on the a500 and my goal is to have a big hard drive full of WHDLOAD games to play

[alexh]

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/hdinst

[thomas]

Low level format of a 4GB drive might take hours. An interrupted LLF might be the cause that the drive is not recognised correctly. I doubt that using HDInstTools makes any difference. It uses the same SCSI commands as HDToolbox.

[Loedown]

Originally Posted by thomas

Low level format of a 4GB drive might take hours. An interrupted LLF might be the cause that the drive is not recognised correctly. I doubt that using HDInstTools makes any difference. It uses the same SCSI commands as HDToolbox.

It takes hours under WB1.3, much faster under 3.1

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Loedown

It takes hours under WB1.3, much faster under 3.1

I don't think so. It's the same program sending the same command to the same device. It cannot be faster. LLF is done by the device itself. It does not depend on the Kickstart version.

You probably tried to send LLF command to an IDE hard disk using HDToolbox. This does not work and therefore returns immediately, so you get the impression that it's much faster. Some IDE hard disks initialize their internal bad block table when receiving LLF command from HDToolbox and therefore appear to be freshly initialized, but no real formatting has been done.

[Jope]

And just to be sure, if you happen to have a drive that actually heeds the LLF command and you interrupted it, the drive will usually go into dumb mode, where the drive can be detected on the bus, but it will only accept some identifying commands and the low level format command.

All you can do now is, start the low level format again and come back the next morning. On a 4GB drive, LLF will take several hours.

Let's hope you got lucky and the drive is not ruined.

I made this same mistake when I got my first SCSI hard drive as a kid. I just had to try low level formatting it and got really scared when it was unusable after I interrupted the LLF. Fortunately I had someone to ask and he told me what I told you. After the LLF completed, the drive was usable again.

For everyone else reading this thread, don't low level format your drives. Just don't. It's not needed. It's never needed.

[zipper]

Fact: "While it is generally impossible to perform a complete LLF on most modern hard drives (since the mid-1990s) outside the factory" ... You may find manufacturer specific tool (SeaTools, SCSIMax etc.) for it but your mileage may vary.... http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatLow-c.html

[2E0TMF]

Thanks once again for your input! I put the 20mb back in went through the hdtoolbox on os 3.1 install disk and everything went flawless so i ended up putting os3.1 on the small 20mb drive But when setting the disk type up you have to low level format??? before you can do anything else?
I have had another go at the 4gig hd and it looks like i need to enter the settings for the drive myself as i was experimenting with numbers and actually got different results when clicking the verify data on drive and save changes to drive for example there is no error-1 write when clicking save changes?
Can someone please check my drive and give back any reports as to what i should enter in the drive type and would it be easier to setup a 20mb partition for workbench which can be low level formatted quickly oppose to the whole 4gig LOL ??
My drive is a seagate Model ST34371WC

Any help is appreciated

[prowler]

Originally Posted by 2E0TMF

Can someone please check my drive and give back any reports as to what i should enter in the drive type and would it be easier to setup a 20mb partition for workbench which can be low level formatted quickly oppose to the whole 4gig LOL ??
My drive is a seagate Model ST34371WC

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-dri...CSI3-W-SC.html

[thomas]

A healthy drive which is poperly connected and with jumpers and termination set correctly should give good values when you click on "read configuration".

If it doesn't, then there is something wrong. It was just a surmise that it could have something to do with low level format, because a LLF tells the drive these values. But it could as well be something wrong with the connection, jumpers, termination or the power supply. Or the drive is just dead.

It could also be that the drive is too big for your A590. I know that the most recent firmware version doesn't have a limit less than 4Gb, but I could imagine that earlier versions have smaller limits.

[Loedown]

Originally Posted by thomas

I don't think so. It's the same program sending the same command to the same device. It cannot be faster. LLF is done by the device itself. It does not depend on the Kickstart version.

You probably tried to send LLF command to an IDE hard disk using HDToolbox. This does not work and therefore returns immediately, so you get the impression that it's much faster. Some IDE hard disks initialize their internal bad block table when receiving LLF command from HDToolbox and therefore appear to be freshly initialized, but no real formatting has been done.

Whilst normally I wouldn't argue with you, having seen it with my own eyes it is indeed much faster under WB3.1, the drive is a 4Gb SCSI drive and both times it was formatted using the standard commands, split into three partitions.

Originally Posted by thomas

A healthy drive which is poperly connected and with jumpers and termination set correctly should give good values when you click on "read configuration".

If it doesn't, then there is something wrong. It was just a surmise that it could have something to do with low level format, because a LLF tells the drive these values. But it could as well be something wrong with the connection, jumpers, termination or the power supply. Or the drive is just dead.

It could also be that the drive is too big for your A590. I know that the most recent firmware version doesn't have a limit less than 4Gb, but I could imagine that earlier versions have smaller limits.

This is indeed very true too, until I upgraded to V7.0 it gave me all sorts of grief on the 4Gb drive, the previous owner had just simply used a much smaller partition, how small I couldn't answer.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Loedown

split into three partitions.

Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? I am talking about that scary "Low Level Format" button which is only available in HDToolbox and no other program. A low level format will reorder the physical blocks on the entire HDD after which all partitions are gone. You cannot low level format a partition.

Formatting a partition on a HDD is not a real format actually, but it just overwrites each block of the partition with garbage data. It's completely unnecessary to do this IMHO unless you want to sell the drive and make it impossible for the new owner to reconstruct your data.

[Jope]

These days on modern oses, the high level format doesn't even write much anything to the hard drive. Just the fs bookkeeping info.

So if you really want to erase your data, use dban or some other method that really overwrites it. Filled with zeros is enough, no-one will dig your data out from modern drives (anything from 1GB onwards).

[thomas]

@Jope: despite correct, your hint is completely off-topic to this thread. Please read from the top and if you have a suggestion for the OP to get his drive to work, then say it, otherwise please keep away from this thread.

[Jope]

I already said it. Complete the low level format on the 4GB drive and it should work.

Looking at the second bunch of questions, the original poster seems to need some tutoring in what is a low level format and what is partitioning and what is high level formatting, and what is necessary, what is not.

As per your wish, I shall refrain from commenting further on this thread. Happy new year.

[pandy71]

Verify HDD with decent HDD low level analysys software - MHDD or similar http://hddguru.com/

(PC of coz!)

[Loedown]

Originally Posted by thomas

Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? I am talking about that scary "Low Level Format" button which is only available in HDToolbox and no other program. A low level format will reorder the physical blocks on the entire HDD after which all partitions are gone. You cannot low level format a partition.

Formatting a partition on a HDD is not a real format actually, but it just overwrites each block of the partition with garbage data. It's completely unnecessary to do this IMHO unless you want to sell the drive and make it impossible for the new owner to reconstruct your data.

No you are correct I am talking about AmigaDOS format.

That takes many hours under 1.3 but is much faster under 3.1

V7.0 ROMs will access 4Gb, HD Toolbox is a bit fickle compared to modern PC and formatting / partitioning.

I suggest you look at tutorials and then it should all just click, keeping in mind that your partitions should not be larger than 2Gb each, I split mine into three and that seems to work just fine.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by Loedown

No you are correct I am talking about AmigaDOS format.

That takes many hours under 1.3 but is much faster under 3.1

Are you sure you didn't use quick format on 3.1? 1.3 format has the quick option, too, when run from a CLI window.

[Loedown]

Originally Posted by thomas

Are you sure you didn't use quick format on 3.1? 1.3 format has the quick option, too, when run from a CLI window.

Now this I am sure about, 1.3 would format a track and then verify, 3.1 had a scrolling bar and was for sure quicker, far quicker.

[2E0TMF]

Hi Thanks again to all
I have got the 7.0 roms in my a590 and 3.1 rom in the a500+ hoping to take out the 20mb drive and change over with a 4gig hd.I know with amiga's somethings are not as straight forward as pc's
I have always wanted to get my a500+ up to scratch with a decent hd and memory for the whdload games.
I do have my A1200/mediator setup which has been fantastic over the years and i have my a600 with it's 4gig hd and hopefully venturing in to getting the new 030 accelerator from amigakit.
When using the hdtoolbox in 3.1 install i only follow the way things are to be done to setup a harddrive.I understand about low level formatting and something not needed in pc world but in amiga's its something i have used in the install before i can move on to the next part of setting up a hard drive.
The 20mb scsi drive was straight forward and the seagate 4gig drive i am using now seems to read the configuration ok apart from it keeps stating it can't find the drive size?
I have entered settings which splits the disc in two 2gig halves but i can't save any settings to discs as i get an error-1 write and also i can't verify the data on the disc? but if i go in for the low level format the lights come on and then thats it? I am unsure if its formatting at all or it's just hanging?
I then put the 4gig disc settings as a 20mb disc and the low level format does the same but with the original 20mb disc the low level format takes less than 1 min to do?
So am i to put the 4gig in and partition as default to two 2gig partitions and low level format and leave it ?? even if it take a days or so?????