CF Card disappeared

amifan · 27 November 2023, 04:18

Hi guys, I was in the process of setting up an SSD with my A1200, I had a buffered IDE with CF adapter from Amigastore.eu, this one: https://amigastore.eu/en/891-a120060...-buffered.html

I had my CF card plugged into the CF slot and the SSD with adapter plugged into the IDE connector. When I turned on the Amiga nothing booted, I eventually got the Kickstart screen. Now my CF is not recognised by the A1200 when I go to the boot menu. I am at a bit of a loss to what to do or if it is possible to recover the CF data.

amifan · 27 November 2023, 04:21

I just checked in HD ToolBox with the WB3.2 Disk and none of the partitions show up, the status is Unknown.

derSammler · 27 November 2023, 08:08

Is the CF card still seen by a PC or a Mac? Unlike an SSD, CF and SD cards are not that reliable. They can die from one second to another. And unlike spinning rust (aka hard disk drives), they have a limited life-time from the outset anyway (that's why buying used cards should be avoided).

If the card is no longer seen by any system, trash it. If you can reformat it on a PC/Mac, I would still replace it and only keep it as a spare. Chances are it will fail again. It's also good practise to make an image of a CF card once you have finished setting it up.

amifan · 27 November 2023, 08:15

The card pops up as an unformatted card on the Mac, and the Amiga side sees it as an unformatted drive i.e. like a new one. I guess there is no chance to recovering the data from it? I thought I had backed up the data but cannot find the files so this is my only chance to save any data.

lesta_smsc · 27 November 2023, 08:27

If it is detecting on PC then try mounting this in WinUAE or loading Workbench off disk to see if there is anything showing (still in WinUAE).

You will be able to rule out if the problems lie somewhere with Amiga eg IDE header, cable etc

amifan · 27 November 2023, 08:29

I loaded WB off a disk, the hard drive icons do not show up, but when I use HD ToolBox from Workbench it shows up as an uninitiated drive.

lesta_smsc · 27 November 2023, 08:40

Could it be filesystem is unsupported on your OS? Is IDEFIX97 enabled?

amifan · 27 November 2023, 08:43

It should be, the card booted fine without any issues, only have plugging the CF card together with a buffered IDE interface and SSD then CF card seems to have been erased. I tried just the CF card in the Amiga with a standard single cable CF to IDE adapter, and the card is still not booting or showing up when booting from a floppy disk.

derSammler · 27 November 2023, 08:54

Quote:

only have plugging the CF card together with a buffered IDE interface and SSD then CF card seems to have been erased

Temporal coincidence I would say.

You could try running DiskSalv. Or just reformat and see if there is any life left in the card at all.

Toni Wilen · 27 November 2023, 09:17

It might be just first (few) block(s) getting damaged, it would make it look like unformatted (corrupt partition tables). If card still responds, it most likely isn't dead and most of data is still recoverable.

This can also happen if system was not >4G safe.

amifan · 27 November 2023, 09:19

That would be nice if so, what could I do to fix the issue, could it be done from the Amiga side?

thomas · 27 November 2023, 22:21

You could try this program: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.../rdbrecov2.lha

You should make a backup of the CF card first. I am not familiar with MacOS. In WinUAE there is an option "create hard disk image file".

Also in WinUAE you can just add the above LHA as first harddrive and the CF (or rather the backup) as second one. No other file is needed.

Jope · 28 November 2023, 09:36

In macos, a backup can be made from the shell with the dd tool.

You can identify what disk is what with diskutil list and then the device node would be /dev/disk1 /dev/disk2 and so on, matching what you just saw in diskutil list.

The dd command itself goes traditionally: dd if=/dev/diskX of=myimagefile.hdf

Apparently the diskutil gui can also make a raw sector dump if you instruct it to show all devices from the menu and then have it make a "read only" format image. However the disk utility gui has changed many times over the years, so some user discretion is advised, it's best to find instructions for the particular disk utility that your particular macos has.

amifan · 29 November 2023, 14:27

Thank you for the advice, I managed to back up the card but could not get any data off of it, the CF card has now completely died though so I am going back to the beginning and rebuilding my Amiga from scratch again

lesta_smsc · 29 November 2023, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by amifan

Thank you for the advice, I managed to back up the card but could not get any data off of it, the CF card has now completely died though so I am going back to the beginning and rebuilding my Amiga from scratch again

If you have a complete image, then you're lucky as you can make a copy of it to try and test other methods

Orionis5 · 03 December 2023, 20:16

CF are very reliable if proper use is done and card is not fake.
I have my SanDisk, Kingston and Transcend working in Camera or Amiga after 14 years.
None of them died but all are genuine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derSammler

Is the CF card still seen by a PC or a Mac? Unlike an SSD, CF and SD cards are not that reliable. They can die from one second to another. And unlike spinning rust (aka hard disk drives), they have a limited life-time from the outset anyway (that's why buying used cards should be avoided).

If the card is no longer seen by any system, trash it. If you can reformat it on a PC/Mac, I would still replace it and only keep it as a spare. Chances are it will fail again. It's also good practise to make an image of a CF card once you have finished setting it up.

derSammler · 04 December 2023, 09:05

No, they are not. (hint: your milage is not true for the rest of the world)

They work in your Amiga for so long simply because the Amiga does little to no write access when just using the OS.

Use a brand-new one in a retro PC running Win9x and it will die within months of heavy use. This is nothing to even discuss about. Flash memory used in CF cards can take 10.000 writes per cell (or rather: block) at most with even only 1.000 for newer/bigger cards - and there is no real wear-leveling that would make use of e.g. TRIM. Not that the Amiga would support that anyway.

CF/SD cards are consumables and they always were. Not accepting this will cause you data loss sooner or later.

And I find it quite amusing that you wrote this just after he posted: "the CF card has now completely died"

amifan · 04 December 2023, 09:11

Yeah, that is one of my reasons for switching to SSD, the peace of mind and security, plus the mSATA drives are pretty much the same cost now as a CF, so it seems to make more sense if thinking in the long term.

27 November 2023, 04:18	#1
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	CF Card disappeared Hi guys, I was in the process of setting up an SSD with my A1200, I had a buffered IDE with CF adapter from Amigastore.eu, this one: https://amigastore.eu/en/891-a120060...-buffered.html I had my CF card plugged into the CF slot and the SSD with adapter plugged into the IDE connector. When I turned on the Amiga nothing booted, I eventually got the Kickstart screen. Now my CF is not recognised by the A1200 when I go to the boot menu. I am at a bit of a loss to what to do or if it is possible to recover the CF data.

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27 November 2023, 04:21	#2
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	I just checked in HD ToolBox with the WB3.2 Disk and none of the partitions show up, the status is Unknown.

27 November 2023, 08:08	#3
derSammler Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 1,648	Is the CF card still seen by a PC or a Mac? Unlike an SSD, CF and SD cards are not that reliable. They can die from one second to another. And unlike spinning rust (aka hard disk drives), they have a limited life-time from the outset anyway (that's why buying used cards should be avoided). If the card is no longer seen by any system, trash it. If you can reformat it on a PC/Mac, I would still replace it and only keep it as a spare. Chances are it will fail again. It's also good practise to make an image of a CF card once you have finished setting it up.

27 November 2023, 08:15	#4
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	The card pops up as an unformatted card on the Mac, and the Amiga side sees it as an unformatted drive i.e. like a new one. I guess there is no chance to recovering the data from it? I thought I had backed up the data but cannot find the files so this is my only chance to save any data.

27 November 2023, 08:27	#5
lesta_smsc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,175	If it is detecting on PC then try mounting this in WinUAE or loading Workbench off disk to see if there is anything showing (still in WinUAE). You will be able to rule out if the problems lie somewhere with Amiga eg IDE header, cable etc

27 November 2023, 08:29	#6
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	I loaded WB off a disk, the hard drive icons do not show up, but when I use HD ToolBox from Workbench it shows up as an uninitiated drive.

27 November 2023, 08:40	#7
lesta_smsc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,175	Could it be filesystem is unsupported on your OS? Is IDEFIX97 enabled?

27 November 2023, 08:43	#8
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	It should be, the card booted fine without any issues, only have plugging the CF card together with a buffered IDE interface and SSD then CF card seems to have been erased. I tried just the CF card in the Amiga with a standard single cable CF to IDE adapter, and the card is still not booting or showing up when booting from a floppy disk.

27 November 2023, 09:17	#10
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,517	It might be just first (few) block(s) getting damaged, it would make it look like unformatted (corrupt partition tables). If card still responds, it most likely isn't dead and most of data is still recoverable. This can also happen if system was not >4G safe.

27 November 2023, 09:19	#11
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	That would be nice if so, what could I do to fix the issue, could it be done from the Amiga side?

27 November 2023, 22:21	#12
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 7,001	You could try this program: http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.../rdbrecov2.lha You should make a backup of the CF card first. I am not familiar with MacOS. In WinUAE there is an option "create hard disk image file". Also in WinUAE you can just add the above LHA as first harddrive and the CF (or rather the backup) as second one. No other file is needed.

28 November 2023, 09:36	#13
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,863	In macos, a backup can be made from the shell with the dd tool. You can identify what disk is what with diskutil list and then the device node would be /dev/disk1 /dev/disk2 and so on, matching what you just saw in diskutil list. The dd command itself goes traditionally: dd if=/dev/diskX of=myimagefile.hdf Apparently the diskutil gui can also make a raw sector dump if you instruct it to show all devices from the menu and then have it make a "read only" format image. However the disk utility gui has changed many times over the years, so some user discretion is advised, it's best to find instructions for the particular disk utility that your particular macos has.

29 November 2023, 14:27	#14
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	Thank you for the advice, I managed to back up the card but could not get any data off of it, the CF card has now completely died though so I am going back to the beginning and rebuilding my Amiga from scratch again

04 December 2023, 09:05	#17
derSammler Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 1,648	No, they are not. (hint: your milage is not true for the rest of the world) They work in your Amiga for so long simply because the Amiga does little to no write access when just using the OS. Use a brand-new one in a retro PC running Win9x and it will die within months of heavy use. This is nothing to even discuss about. Flash memory used in CF cards can take 10.000 writes per cell (or rather: block) at most with even only 1.000 for newer/bigger cards - and there is no real wear-leveling that would make use of e.g. TRIM. Not that the Amiga would support that anyway. CF/SD cards are consumables and they always were. Not accepting this will cause you data loss sooner or later. And I find it quite amusing that you wrote this just after he posted: "the CF card has now completely died"

04 December 2023, 09:11	#18
amifan WhatIFF? Amiga Magazine Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Chiba, Japan Age: 46 Posts: 482	Yeah, that is one of my reasons for switching to SSD, the peace of mind and security, plus the mSATA drives are pretty much the same cost now as a CF, so it seems to make more sense if thinking in the long term.

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