DSI (Data Storage Interrupt) Crashes... Often!

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Originally Posted by Hypex

Thank you and greetings also.


Did you really hack AC/DC?

Yeah, the band didn't really like all the power I was pirating from them. HAHA! I adored the band a great deal back when the C64 was extremely popular and I was just starting to get into hacking...or...cracking. It's actually more of a power electric reference since you need a power source to use a computer. Hehe. Back then, I wanted it to seem REALLY cool and other handles were very different.

I'm a fairly seasoned OS4 user. Having been one since the AmigaOne XE times. Migrating myself from my main A1200/030 system to the XE. Then purchased an X1000. Despite being better hardware than the XE, CFE put me off and I ended up storing that away for a while as my XE booted faster than the X1000!

I considered the X1000 before I knew much about the X5000 because of the abilities. But, the newer won. I played around with OS 4 with "Classic"..still seems odd to me to call my A4000 + CSPPC a Classic.. All machines are good without being labeled. All machines have a purpose it just depends who wants to use them, and if you have fun doing so. Older hardware might need some repairs (My A4000 did..) but it doesn't mean they're junk. OS 4 is an interesting version of the OS. I'm not (yet) programming with it, but..it's pretty cool that stuff is a lot fast, yet retains the Amiga ideas. If the Joystick bug were fixed..that would be very helpful..but Ehh...fluid is life.

At some time I acquired an A4000 a friend help me set up with a decent 060 configuration. For a time it was used more than my X1000. Until hardware issues with the XE caused me to bite the bullet and setup the X1000 as my main OS4 machine. Now I use the A4000 less, but I always take it Amiga meetings, when we could have meetings.

I'm still using my A4000 with the new IBrowse, and updating WHDLoad installs. I don't have the interest in floppies as I used to. Don't have the time to just play video games. Besides, I'm not a fan of Arcade games were you just move around on a screen and shoot stuff...and I can see the age in a lot of games of the time. Many are still cool, but mindless games aren't my thing..anymore. Puzzle solving, or very unique games are pretty fun. Adventures rather than just shooting "bad guys" on 1 level to get to another and repeat.
I wish more Night Long and Wipeout 2097 games had been made. Wasted Dreams is still pretty cool. I've been enjoying OS 3.1.4.1 a lot, and am expecting to really enjoy 3.2. I think it'll be a bit like OS 4...which I hope gets an update also. 68K still kicks ass for all the Utilities I have with it. I adore the fast reboot with X5000.


Currently, since comments from White, I've been using WinUAE a bit more than my A4000 since it's quicker. But all real testing, after a list of checks, happens with A4K..and X5000.


It would be great to have some clubs here!! No one in this area except for myself, that I have found, knows anything about Amiga. It would be great to have some face to face vs all this text.

I use SFS now on my OS4 partitions. People like to use SFS2 as it's 64 bit, but without recovery tools I can't run the risk. I wonder if an old config in a newer DOpus would trip it up? Well, I would have done that at first. Then found things missing that broke it. LOL. Saving it out should fix any incompatibility issues.

The possible recovery and salvage means a lot to me, well after you apply the Update from a fresh install. FFS is just waaaaaaay too slow under PPC. As a programmer, naaa..I wouldn't risk that either. I have a couple SFS/02 partitions but that's data that's eeeeassy to replace. I was Juuust thinking that yesterday. I'll rename my config so it reads everything stock/defaults and see what happens with DOpus 5.91. I have my Max Headroom Theme that I use..and I discovered a long time ago, even with 68K version, that the Shutdown Sound (playing Wav) causes problems sometimes. So years ago I disabled that and I transferred that over to OS 4.
Yeah, debugging can be fun. I didn't/don't want to redo all of my buttons and stuff. DOpus 4 was my all time favorite well before DOpus 5 was released and then I was Wowed by the power / abilities built into it. One of my favorites that I bought.


I renamed my current install, extracted fresh DOpus 5.91 and ran. Put it on it's own screen, saved Environment and the layout. Exited.. Ran again, switched the Workbench and started it again, clicked cancel and DSI hit happened. I'll check some stuff...

I must admit I've only tested DOpus4. I'm used to the latest, then get annoyed when I find the DOpus4 on my A4000 lacks features, and I always forget to update it. My Amiga club had a DOpus5 discount I bought into back in the day, with full box with manual, it was a good deal. But I couldn't get used to the interface. The split from twin to multi folders was one thing but the gadgets were another. I just wanted plain text telling me what things are, not a pirate head I had to press, to delete. So it just put me off and I went back to DOpus4. Yes it would have been configurable but I didn't bother going deep into it.

I don't become annoyed about differences and updates I might forget to do. I just laugh at myself, and continue on. I notice a lot of people become annoyed very easily.. Hmm.. Being used to floppies and 9600/1200/2400 baud modems really helps you to remind yourself to keep chill. That and later Zen practices. Opus 4 is still THE Go To if something doesn't go right or well with DOpus 5, and sometimes...that happens. Large file copy processes..I created a Shell script to output for Opus 5 since it's quicker vs the status bar slowing things a bit. Opus 4 can be set to only show the filename without progress..very helpful. But Opus 5 has the ability to push through/keep checking errors better, and with 68K..I've delt with those. So, both have +/-.
I dig the dual Listers, and sometimes have 3 or 4 is very helpful. Nothing is perfect, so..again, +/-'s..

I know about the Ctrl-Alt R for reset and Crtl-Alt Q for quit but this screen combo sounds useful.

Yeeeeeeaaaah!!

I'm currently using the X1000 EUAE JIT version. I need to use the X1000 version as the others crash. Though the one included with RunInUAE works fine. But my P96 modes have gone missing. It was bad enough on the real thing but I cannot deal with an AGA only Workbench in the modern age.

One included with RunInUAE seemed okay a first, but then I noticed it's really slow, and all versions cause RunInUAE to be slower also, including the past Beta 7 or 8.. So now I don't use RunInUAE, start UAE directly and I can see the difference. If you're only playing floppy games..it's not a big deal to use RunInUAE. Don't want to deal with AGA only screens, I........'m with ya on that. Great for testing, debugging and games, but for using utilities...that's where I see "Classic" at. GFX boards/screens...Goooood. HAA! I really don't understand why they made Chip RAM slower.. When I met several of the makers of original hardware..they might have stated why, but I don't have grand recall of it anymore.

I found an old Hyperion thread where I detailed the problem. Okay so writing a small file to host causes it. MaxTransfer issue lol? I use MultiView as a test as it's a ~20KB file that does it. Just ignore the posts where I was misunderstood. Did I say my FFS was invalid and crashed?

A year+ ago I found others noticing the same problem. Ahhh, right, I think it was small files rather than larger. Yes, only writing to host causes it. FFS is easy to invalidate...if you Don't make Sure that final light flash happens, haha!

https://forum.hyperion-entertainment...=2211&start=10





Payback used to work on my XE fine. I don't recall it crashing. I found it stable enough. Need to test it on my X1000. But I used to run the PPC version which ran really well in 3d. Unfortunately it had no sound. The Mac version looked exactly alike and with sound!

That's why I was looking at the XE and X1000 a bit. But I also decided I have the "classic" hardware..but I was considering what hasn't come into being yet, the future. So I went X5K. As long as the Joystick or Keys or something are mapped to Joystick, then the WarpOS version will work with some help. Sound is part of the fun but I've played it enough that I don't need that anymore. I don't know if Hyperion will get the rights to it or not, or even Night Long, but we'll see. 68K works well, not any DSI hits. Wipeout 2097 is what I really want. I really enjoy that game! I still consider it very challenging but a lot of fun.

I'm not aware of any updates like that. When I look it's still based on some old EUAE version that was a fork of some older UAE version with some newer patches. Be good to get it up to date. Linux had EuaE as well on PPC. I've actually thought about how to integrate PPC myself. Running native on PPC would be good but not all PPCs are equal so CyberStormPPC code will crash on Sam/X1000/X5000. This is comparing with Heretic II WOS (I think it was), that works fine on my XE but will crash a Sam flex. The G3/4 is quite compatible but the Sam and the rest are different ISA models, especially the embedded PPC models, which will break more easily.

I was...wondering about that.

They could adopt the QEMU method W-UAE uses but it would be inefficient. Still it would work. But using WarpOSEmu would be better. Or some kind of PPC VM.

A little funny... Emulate PPC to get PPC to function. I've done Some reading of QEMU but very novice yet about it. First I've read about WarpOSEmu. Hmm! I'll check into that.

I'm sure the EUAE crash is due to misuse of a DOS function. Some DOS functions do things like freeing locks when giving a file handle from a lock. And if you missed the detail your code will be dangerous. I found this out myself, when I wrote my own file loading routine that opened a file from a lock. On OS4 it crashed. I eventually went through my code and found I had missed a small detail that has a big effect. Now, it easy to blame OS4 for freezing and go on about the bugs and how lame it is because the same thing works fine on OS3. But the fact is, a lot of 68K code was dirty, and OS4 brought the truth out. OS4 just reacts very badly to bad code.

I have zero intentions of bashing OS 4 at all. I look to see where the problem is. I'm not doing at all what I've noticed other users doing. Some don't want to like OS 4 just because it's not OS 3.. I'm not stuck in the past. Though I cannot handle Windows 10's ugly of an interface...unless I use some 3rd party to override some of that Baby's Tinker Toy look...Bleeech. I'm staying with Windows 7 until the make it "look" better and remove a lot more bloat. OS 4 doesn't seem to have a lot of bloat. Just some bugs here and there, and in reference to the hardware...it seems. Otherwise, I think it's pretty sweet! There aren't a lot of utility programs for it..and I'm not a sit a Play Video Games for hours at a time type person.
When I first noticing the DSI hits with E-UAE I had received my X5K and getting used to it. From reading the OS 3.1.4(.1) thread, there is a bit of chatter about bugs and other bits of cleaning being done. So I agree there. Ha, I'm not thinking OS 3.x is "perfect"..not anything made or any person has been perfect, so..there are always ways to add to and improve. I don't doubt DOS misuse is probably the error(s).


First you get an emulation functional, which is what I started, then you go into checking the FileSystem or MaxTransfer, etc..and that's the step I haven't arrived at yet. Other things got my attention. Smiling. So, that's the next step, but with all the reports..I'm thinking it's in E-UAE's code thus not any ways around it. Other than a "hack"...is you're going to copy a file from Emu then archive it with something bigger...to be passed to the host. Okay, not a "hack" but a Work-Around.

I tend to think the OS and APIs should check all pointers and throw an alert. That would be better than the OS claiming ignorance and trusting everything because it's the Amiga way then leaving it up to you to figure out why the system just locked up. It's more frustrating when you are writing a program, that suddenly freezes the whole system and you need to get your serial cable and spend two weeks viewing live crash logs, that still give no clue what is going wrong. Only to find in the end that a null buffer was sent in a device call. Well it could have just told me!!!

You mean...an Intuition type notification? A GURU Alert that makes more sense in todays lingo?? You're asking for elegance and intuitiveness from programmers, and many used to do that. Considering many possible outcomes. I've seen that with programs for Amiga, and other hardware. With Windows I don't see it, at all! Programmers make shortcuts that they understand and it also keeps the code smaller. Amiga's code has remained small for that very reason. Today we have the storage we didn't have back then unless you were flushed with cash. Today, even low incomes people can afford todays' hard drives (mechanical). So the OS could expand and use language we could have much better understanding than just codes.
Personally, I'm cool with some kind of indicator "DSI hit happened because program went out of bounds of DOS." or whatever. The balances between very experienced coders; coders that really care about clean code and typing errors, and that of decent to average abilities and the User will always be happening. In the 70's and 80's I met a of coders that really knew their stuff, and some couldn't talk well with people outside of a screen while others did. The ones who could, had more elegance and insights in their code. Nothing is absolute, so I'm not defining all programmers, of course. I know today...I don't trust IBM or HP anymore for their Printers or Combined machines. Back when I was in my 20's and 30's...they were very well made, and the code was done very well. Now I see a lot of sloppy and throw away hardware.



I'm very much enjoying reading about the changes with OS 3.x, and the news that OS 4 is being updated. Maybe OS 4...will get an updated UAE emulator? I think that's part of what QEMU and WarpOSEmu is about. Looks like writing on the wall.

Okay rant over.

Ah, you found a bug, good one. Is kas1e on here? He was maintaining it.

I did!!?? WooohoOOOO!!! Is that what that was, a rant? Haha! My test with DOpus 5.91 does the same thing, crash when running it twice and choosing Cancel. Again, I'll play around with it. Heh...I didn't consider this, but maybe I'll try the 68K version? Ha! Then again, I am running some stuff that was meant to get WarpOS sort of functional. Maybe...there's a relationship problem. I have a space on my X5K's HD so I'll make a new partition and check if something is interfering.

[Hypex]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

Yeah, the band didn't really like all the power I was pirating from them. HAHA! I adored the band a great deal back when the C64 was extremely popular and I was just starting to get into hacking...or...cracking. It's actually more of a power electric reference since you need a power source to use a computer. Hehe. Back then, I wanted it to seem REALLY cool and other handles were very different.

Haha! As an extra bonus, it's one of the few handles with a slash in it.

I considered the X1000 before I knew much about the X5000 because of the abilities. But, the newer won. I played around with OS 4 with "Classic"..still seems odd to me to call my A4000 + CSPPC a Classic.. All machines are good without being labeled. All machines have a purpose it just depends who wants to use them, and if you have fun doing so. Older hardware might need some repairs (My A4000 did..) but it doesn't mean they're junk. OS 4 is an interesting version of the OS. I'm not (yet) programming with it, but..it's pretty cool that stuff is a lot fast, yet retains the Amiga ideas. If the Joystick bug were fixed..that would be very helpful..but Ehh...fluid is life.

Yes I quite agree, that's a good way of looking at it. The X1000 came at a good time as the market needed it. Amiga people have had different options over the years. Some remain faithful to 68K while others moved on modern options. I still have an interest in "the real thing" as was the catalyst for my Amiga life, passion or obsession. But the AmigaOne and beyond gave me an opportunity to continue my Amiga life on another platform. One that was more than mere emulation. So I took it,

I'm still using my A4000 with the new IBrowse, and updating WHDLoad installs. I don't have the interest in floppies as I used to. Don't have the time to just play video games. Besides, I'm not a fan of Arcade games were you just move around on a screen and shoot stuff...and I can see the age in a lot of games of the time. Many are still cool, but mindless games aren't my thing..anymore. Puzzle solving, or very unique games are pretty fun. Adventures rather than just shooting "bad guys" on 1 level to get to another and repeat.

I recently installed IBrowse and SSL. Tested it a little. And have just started building up a WHDLoad collection. I need too, as an A4000 is one of the least game compatible Amigas, especially upgraded. I don't mind arcade games as long as I make progress without dying all the time. The Amiga has had a few good puzzlers.

I wish more Night Long and Wipeout 2097 games had been made. Wasted Dreams is still pretty cool. I've been enjoying OS 3.1.4.1 a lot, and am expecting to really enjoy 3.2. I think it'll be a bit like OS 4...which I hope gets an update also. 68K still kicks ass for all the Utilities I have with it. I adore the fast reboot with X5000.

Those games set a new standard. If you had the hardware. I bought OS3.1.4 but still need to install it on my A4000. Yes, I like to do a fast reboot if I can, and it can be pretty spiffy.

Currently, since comments from White, I've been using WinUAE a bit more than my A4000 since it's quicker. But all real testing, after a list of checks, happens with A4K..and X5000.

I like to use any UAE for testing. Sometimes it can be convenient. But I still want to use the real thing.

It would be great to have some clubs here!! No one in this area except for myself, that I have found, knows anything about Amiga. It would be great to have some face to face vs all this text.

I must be fortunate as I've been involved in two local Amiga clubs for almost 20 years or so. Which would be after Commodores demise. OMG I need a life!

The possible recovery and salvage means a lot to me, well after you apply the Update from a fresh install. FFS is just waaaaaaay too slow under PPC. As a programmer, naaa..I wouldn't risk that either. I have a couple SFS/02 partitions but that's data that's eeeeassy to replace. I was Juuust thinking that yesterday. I'll rename my config so it reads everything stock/defaults and see what happens with DOpus 5.91. I have my Max Headroom Theme that I use..and I discovered a long time ago, even with 68K version, that the Shutdown Sound (playing Wav) causes problems sometimes. So years ago I disabled that and I transferred that over to OS 4.

FFS was slower on 68K. LOL. I used it for all my OS4 Workbenches initially. Now I just use it for my boot loader partition, poor old thing. They did give it some data cache feature but it wasn't activated by default. And it was too use unfriendly, activated by some CLI command.



You may have found an old DOpus bug dragged over.

Yeah, debugging can be fun. I didn't/don't want to redo all of my buttons and stuff. DOpus 4 was my all time favorite well before DOpus 5 was released and then I was Wowed by the power / abilities built into it. One of my favorites that I bought.

I always tend to stick it in the background. It's also like a rite of passage with every AmigaOS install I do. ClickToFront. 10KB WB copy buffer. DOpus. Done.

I renamed my current install, extracted fresh DOpus 5.91 and ran. Put it on it's own screen, saved Environment and the layout. Exited.. Ran again, switched the Workbench and started it again, clicked cancel and DSI hit happened. I'll check some stuff...

You've got a reproducible then. Those are the best. Remember when you used to get a DSI on screen because you booted Test Drive? Yeah. Good times.

I don't become annoyed about differences and updates I might forget to do. I just laugh at myself, and continue on. I notice a lot of people become annoyed very easily.. Hmm.. Being used to floppies and 9600/1200/2400 baud modems really helps you to remind yourself to keep chill. That and later Zen practices. Opus 4 is still THE Go To if something doesn't go right or well with DOpus 5, and sometimes...that happens. Large file copy processes..I created a Shell script to output for Opus 5 since it's quicker vs the status bar slowing things a bit. Opus 4 can be set to only show the filename without progress..very helpful. But Opus 5 has the ability to push through/keep checking errors better, and with 68K..I've delt with those. So, both have +/-.
I dig the dual Listers, and sometimes have 3 or 4 is very helpful. Nothing is perfect, so..again, +/-'s..

We've had bigger file to deal as time goes on. An OS3 archive unpacks on OS4 in a jiffy. But, the OS4 native stuff is bigger depending on how big the project is, so tends to even out as taking some time. I do have a gripe with the DOpus4 search and copy. The search is awkward and looking in the files is the worst. There are also some operations you can't stop. In fact I think search is one of them.

Yeeeeeeaaaah!!

One included with RunInUAE seemed okay a first, but then I noticed it's really slow, and all versions cause RunInUAE to be slower also, including the past Beta 7 or 8.. So now I don't use RunInUAE, start UAE directly and I can see the difference. If you're only playing floppy games..it's not a big deal to use RunInUAE. Don't want to deal with AGA only screens, I........'m with ya on that. Great for testing, debugging and games, but for using utilities...that's where I see "Classic" at. GFX boards/screens...Goooood. HAA! I really don't understand why they made Chip RAM slower.. When I met several of the makers of original hardware..they might have stated why, but I don't have grand recall of it anymore.

I mainly use RunInUAE to quickly load a 68k app for testing. Sure the Workbench is plain to start with. But it's handy for running one program or game in an Amiga VM and I have shared volume pointing to my OS4 RAM disk for sharing between the two.


One of the reasons chip was slow is that it shared the bus with the 68k, at least that I can recall. And video RAM would have been better but more expensive. So Commodore never used it back then.

A year+ ago I found others noticing the same problem. Ahhh, right, I think it was small files rather than larger. Yes, only writing to host causes it. FFS is easy to invalidate...if you Don't make Sure that final light flash happens, haha!

In my case FFS was fine before. I think it was fine after. It shows the difference in file systems. One will crash the file system, the other will crash with UAE.

That's why I was looking at the XE and X1000 a bit. But I also decided I have the "classic" hardware..but I was considering what hasn't come into being yet, the future. So I went X5K. As long as the Joystick or Keys or something are mapped to Joystick, then the WarpOS version will work with some help. Sound is part of the fun but I've played it enough that I don't need that anymore. I don't know if Hyperion will get the rights to it or not, or even Night Long, but we'll see. 68K works well, not any DSI hits. Wipeout 2097 is what I really want. I really enjoy that game! I still consider it very challenging but a lot of fun.

There is the NallePUH solution for audio banging games. I found it too unstable and it's old now. I'm familiar with these kinds of patches and know what music replayers like MED do that can poke dirty values in registers, which can mess up an AHI replayer. I hope to provide a transparent solution one day.

I was...wondering about that.

A little funny... Emulate PPC to get PPC to function. I've done Some reading of QEMU but very novice yet about it. First I've read about WarpOSEmu. Hmm! I'll check into that.

Yes it does seem funny that way. But there is also DOS Box for PC. Which seems strange emulating an older x86 CPU on a newer x86. I checked it out and I apparently did have the name right with WarpOSEmu. But it's old now and ReWarp was invented to take it's place.



http://os4depot.net/?function=showfi...isc/rewarp.lha

I have zero intentions of bashing OS 4 at all. I look to see where the problem is. I'm not doing at all what I've noticed other users doing. Some don't want to like OS 4 just because it's not OS 3.. I'm not stuck in the past. Though I cannot handle Windows 10's ugly of an interface...unless I use some 3rd party to override some of that Baby's Tinker Toy look...Bleeech. I'm staying with Windows 7 until the make it "look" better and remove a lot more bloat. OS 4 doesn't seem to have a lot of bloat. Just some bugs here and there, and in reference to the hardware...it seems. Otherwise, I think it's pretty sweet! There aren't a lot of utility programs for it..and I'm not a sit a Play Video Games for hours at a time type person.

I think a lot of the OS4 hate does come from pure Amiga people whose Amiga begins and ends at 68k. I've heard it all. Does it play Amiga games? Does it have the Amiga chipset? Why would I bother when I can run Amiga software faster on my PC with WinUAE? I've heard it all. Of course this misses the point. And now old Amiga supporters are now PC supporters and AmigaOne haters. Offended because Amiga is in the name and should be ripped out because it's not Amiga. Doesn't have a Kickstart ROM. Doesn't have Zorro slots. Doesn't read Amiga floppies. Etc.


But, the Amiga chipset has managed to accumulate this legendary status, as if something epic and magic. Sure, for the time it was, but it was also a means to an end. The PCM sound was a simpler way of playing sounds. The copper and HAM modes were a solution to producing real-life and colouful images in limited hardware. At the end of it's career those bitplanes were holding the Amiga back to the point they have become one of the Amigas infamous annoyances.



And yes, Windows 10 has this plain look to me. Seven may be dated now but it looks more trendier! I don't see the point of going from 24-bit colour back to 1-bit again. :-D

When I first noticing the DSI hits with E-UAE I had received my X5K and getting used to it. From reading the OS 3.1.4(.1) thread, there is a bit of chatter about bugs and other bits of cleaning being done. So I agree there. Ha, I'm not thinking OS 3.x is "perfect"..not anything made or any person has been perfect, so..there are always ways to add to and improve. I don't doubt DOS misuse is probably the error(s).

I looked in some code but didn't spot it. I need a debug build or need to compile it myself. So I can see what function it crashes in. Or crashes in somewhere. A symbolic stack trace will do me. :-)

First you get an emulation functional, which is what I started, then you go into checking the FileSystem or MaxTransfer, etc..and that's the step I haven't arrived at yet. Other things got my attention. Smiling. So, that's the next step, but with all the reports..I'm thinking it's in E-UAE's code thus not any ways around it. Other than a "hack"...is you're going to copy a file from Emu then archive it with something bigger...to be passed to the host. Okay, not a "hack" but a Work-Around.

Sounds funny, but I once wanted to use UAE to install 68K software. Then use it later on OS4 directly. Some installers are buggy but the program is fine! My work around is local RAM drive mounted as host drive which seems fine. Didn't see any ram handler crashes yet.

You mean...an Intuition type notification? A GURU Alert that makes more sense in todays lingo?? You're asking for elegance and intuitiveness from programmers, and many used to do that. Considering many possible outcomes. I've seen that with programs for Amiga, and other hardware. With Windows I don't see it, at all! Programmers make shortcuts that they understand and it also keeps the code smaller. Amiga's code has remained small for that very reason. Today we have the storage we didn't have back then unless you were flushed with cash. Today, even low incomes people can afford todays' hard drives (mechanical). So the OS could expand and use language we could have much better understanding than just codes.
Personally, I'm cool with some kind of indicator "DSI hit happened because program went out of bounds of DOS." or whatever. The balances between very experienced coders; coders that really care about clean code and typing errors, and that of decent to average abilities and the User will always be happening. In the 70's and 80's I met a of coders that really knew their stuff, and some couldn't talk well with people outside of a screen while others did. The ones who could, had more elegance and insights in their code. Nothing is absolute, so I'm not defining all programmers, of course. I know today...I don't trust IBM or HP anymore for their Printers or Combined machines. Back when I was in my 20's and 30's...they were very well made, and the code was done very well. Now I see a lot of sloppy and throw away hardware.

Yes a guru! You don't see it much these days as it's merged into the Grim Reaper. But you would remember the yellow alerts. For example the well known classic freeing memory twice. I think the alert was good as a programming tool to tell the programmer what he did wrong. But not good telling the average user what went wrong. I see the alert as a kind of assert. The assert is a used as a quick check for pointers. Put it at the top of a function and if a pointer is missing or null it will break the program and throw an error. Some OS4 programs are sloppy and don't free signals, but DOS will show an error on program exit, so it should be fixed before release. Programming is tedious. What's opened at the start should be closed in reverse order and there are so many things that need to be checked. The traditional way at least on Amiga.

I'm very much enjoying reading about the changes with OS 3.x, and the news that OS 4 is being updated. Maybe OS 4...will get an updated UAE emulator? I think that's part of what QEMU and WarpOSEmu is about. Looks like writing on the wall.

That would be good. A common GUI is needed as well that supports all options. My current set up is a mess.

I did!!?? WooohoOOOO!!! Is that what that was, a rant? Haha! My test with DOpus 5.91 does the same thing, crash when running it twice and choosing Cancel. Again, I'll play around with it. Heh...I didn't consider this, but maybe I'll try the 68K version? Ha! Then again, I am running some stuff that was meant to get WarpOS sort of functional. Maybe...there's a relationship problem. I have a space on my X5K's HD so I'll make a new partition and check if something is interfering.

My rant is a bug I've been trying to fix. Essentially taking an audio buffer from another program and passing it to AHI for playing. But I found this rare bug that I can cause so easily now and never saw it happen years ago. Somehow the audio buffer is becoming invalid while AHI is playing it. As if it stops sending the buffer and the memory is being freed while AHI is playing it. AHI sends it in an interrupt so if the memory goes bad in an interrupt the whole system is taken down. And ExecSG does not deal with interrupts crashing correctly and gets confused.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

I think a lot of the OS4 hate does come from pure Amiga people whose Amiga begins and ends at 68k. I've heard it all. Does it play Amiga games? Does it have the Amiga chipset? Why would I bother when I can run Amiga software faster on my PC with WinUAE? I've heard it all. Of course this misses the point. And now old Amiga supporters are now PC supporters and AmigaOne haters. Offended because Amiga is in the name and should be ripped out because it's not Amiga. Doesn't have a Kickstart ROM. Doesn't have Zorro slots. Doesn't read Amiga floppies. Etc.

Are you a Millennial? Curious..with the "lol" vs LOL and some other stuff. I don't know all the names or handles with this Site. Not really focused on learning everyone. I prefer..depends on conversations. Anyway.. Tonight I solved the Batman Group problem with settings I missed before. Ran great, one of the few Demos with Techo Music I can handle since it relates TO the visuals. Made a backup of the Settings files for E-UAE (2018).
My older Hard Drive (.hf) files work great too (has Workbench), separate config for RunInUAE.. I don't recall if RunInUAE supports multiple. Now I'll become refocused on DSI hits and building some debugging stuff.

No one has Truly heard it all unless you literally talk to everyone. I know, I Can Be "annoying" about that. LOL! <See?? UAE in any form is a fantastic testing method but you cannot deny actual hardware, as you commented, because that's how everything is made.
Amiga.. Is... In... The...OS...It's... In...What the Makers... Intended with.. Each release of... New..Hardware. The Philosophy was Simple. Not "Think Different." but Be Different and Open to All Users from Average and Basic alike. Thhhhhhat's....a challenging balance!!! It's outside the scopes of Science and Religion. Right to the point of what Matters (borrowing from the band Rush there)--> The User..for whatever the user uses it for. Without restrictions.
At the time, and Still Am a fan of Open Source and Shareware. They were at that point of recognizing 3rd party was the way to go. I'm sure they would have developed past the A4000. The righting was clearly on the "wall". Though AAA was in the works.

They had the OS..and any OS can be modified. Issss the Philosophy compromised though? Tron 1 and 2 touched on those very well.

Anyway, I'll reply to the rest more soon. Yep, I'm able to repeat the DOpus 5 bug often. So it's not WinUAE related as I wondered about...a tiny bit. Amiga NG or whatever...bashing I won't be part of; in case some others come in and attempt.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

"I must be fortunate as I've been involved in two local Amiga clubs for almost 20 years or so. Which would be after Commodores demise. OMG I need a life!"

Which G of the O.M.G.?? You're not enjoying what you do? But yes, if you're only using computers than you can miss the joy of animals and so much more.

"Yes a guru! You don't see it much these days as it's merged into the Grim Reaper. But you would remember the yellow alerts. For example the well known classic freeing memory twice. I think the alert was good as a programming tool to tell the programmer what he did wrong. But not good telling the average user what went wrong. I see the alert as a kind of assert. The assert is a used as a quick check for pointers. Put it at the top of a function and if a pointer is missing or null it will break the program and throw an error. Some OS4 programs are sloppy and don't free signals, but DOS will show an error on program exit, so it should be fixed before release. Programming is tedious. What's opened at the start should be closed in reverse order and there are so many things that need to be checked. The traditional way at least on Amiga."

I'm not a fan of the Grim Reaper thing, it smacks too much of the Black Plague and a particular belief system (shudder). What was so "bad" about Guru Meditation?? Hmm..

Yellow alerts are fun!!! HA! Want to experiment some? Heh, install OS 3.1 or 3.5, then on another partition install 3.9. Now, cold boot or use a good utility to force a total reset..clearing Kickstart calls..and let 3.1 or3.5 boot. Once Workbench is loaded, change the boot to 3.9 or select it from a warm boot if you set it bootable. Have fun with Yellow Alerts. Yes, I know why..but it's a sure way to encounter them. Average and normal users don't consider that fun but advanced and troubleshooters do sometimes. *Snicker*

Yep...I've used many hours programming for the C64 in basic and ASM. Then got into some scripting with Amiga, and ssssssstarted some messing with Amiga. I still have my original SASC/C++ install and docs. I just don't do much with it anymore. A little cracking here and there back then. But Video Toaster, Lightwave, and so on really got my attention. Being able to play some newer games while tasks were happening rocked! Windows couldn't do it well back then. Yep, cleaning your code was a think of passion. It still is, I see some programmers doing a very good job still.

Maybe that's why I don't see too many DSI hits with OS 4..?

"Sounds funny, but I once wanted to use UAE to install 68K software. Then use it later on OS4 directly. Some installers are buggy but the program is fine! My work around is local RAM drive mounted as host drive which seems fine. Didn't see any ram handler crashes yet."

Why is that funny/odd? I adore my A4000 CSPPC but sometimes WinUAE makes it a bit quicker.

ReWarp..I can get Wipout 2097 functioning with my X5000 but..it's too slow to be playable. ReWarp is handy..

I haven't created the time yet to test file transfers from UAE to OS 4 to check more for DSI hits.

[Hypex]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

Are you a Millennial? Curious..with the "lol" vs LOL and some other stuff. I don't know all the names or handles with this Site. Not really focused on learning everyone. I prefer..depends on conversations. Anyway..

Well, I wouldn't say Millennial, as I'm heading towards my late 40's now. LOL!


I've been here for a few years but haven't posted too much. I tend to find a forum for a specific purpose. Or in this case, a particular Amiga forum, where I think there will be relevant interest and discussion.

Tonight I solved the Batman Group problem with settings I missed before. Ran great, one of the few Demos with Techo Music I can handle since it relates TO the visuals. Made a backup of the Settings files for E-UAE (2018).
My older Hard Drive (.hf) files work great too (has Workbench), separate config for RunInUAE.. I don't recall if RunInUAE supports multiple. Now I'll become refocused on DSI hits and building some debugging stuff.

That's good then, solving that issue, then on to the next. :-)

No one has Truly heard it all unless you literally talk to everyone. I know, I Can Be "annoying" about that. LOL! <See?? UAE in any form is a fantastic testing method but you cannot deny actual hardware, as you commented, because that's how everything is made.

Well there's not many Amiga people around any more so I've spoken to everyone one I know which would have to be every Amiga person in my local state by now.

Amiga.. Is... In... The...OS...It's... In...What the Makers... Intended with.. Each release of... New..Hardware. The Philosophy was Simple. Not "Think Different." but Be Different and Open to All Users from Average and Basic alike. Thhhhhhat's....a challenging balance!!! It's outside the scopes of Science and Religion. Right to the point of what Matters (borrowing from the band Rush there)--> The User..for whatever the user uses it for. Without restrictions.

Amiga is a religion.

At the time, and Still Am a fan of Open Source and Shareware. They were at that point of recognizing 3rd party was the way to go. I'm sure they would have developed past the A4000. The righting was clearly on the "wall". Though AAA was in the works

There were plans to modularise the hardware. I still liked the idea of an all integrated A1200 desktop type computer. Even though it was thought to be too limiting not being able to exchange parts of the hardware for better pieces. There was also the PC pressure, where it was taking over the whole industry, and the parts could swapped over inside. But a full desktop case is designed for it.

They had the OS..and any OS can be modified. Issss the Philosophy compromised though? Tron 1 and 2 touched on those very well.

Anyway, I'll reply to the rest more soon. Yep, I'm able to repeat the DOpus 5 bug often. So it's not WinUAE related as I wondered about...a tiny bit. Amiga NG or whatever...bashing I won't be part of; in case some others come in and attempt.

The OS is all there is left of it now. Well, by the time the AmigaOne came out, the OS was the only thing left with any practical value.

Which G of the O.M.G.?? You're not enjoying what you do? But yes, if you're only using computers than you can miss the joy of animals and so much more.

Well, let's see. Oh MyGyver. Oh my goodness. Oh my goshness. Must be the first!

I'm not a fan of the Grim Reaper thing, it smacks too much of the Black Plague and a particular belief system (shudder). What was so "bad" about Guru Meditation?? Hmm..

It's not more informative to the average user. It's been described as an error by some. But technically it's a crash. Unless it really is just a recoverable alert. The guru mediation was kinda fun. But they did replace in 68k days with Software Alert. However, it was too cryptic, like a Windows BSOD. It told you a useless task address and didn't even tell you the name. I mean seriously, people were expected to take the address, put it in a debugger, examine contents, and find the name pointer to find what program crashed?



They also did it wrong is OS4. The yellow alerts overwrote the screen, which isn't correct. Even after they added screen dragging, they still acted the same, so there was no excuse.

Yellow alerts are fun!!! HA! Want to experiment some? Heh, install OS 3.1 or 3.5, then on another partition install 3.9. Now, cold boot or use a good utility to force a total reset..clearing Kickstart calls..and let 3.1 or3.5 boot. Once Workbench is loaded, change the boot to 3.9 or select it from a warm boot if you set it bootable. Have fun with Yellow Alerts. Yes, I know why..but it's a sure way to encounter them. Average and normal users don't consider that fun but advanced and troubleshooters do sometimes. *Snicker*

The persistent yellow alert gets really annoying. Especially when it keeps coming back. I was working on a fake virus once that kept displaying alerts that didn't stop. The virus was fake, the annoyance was real.

Yep...I've used many hours programming for the C64 in basic and ASM. Then got into some scripting with Amiga, and ssssssstarted some messing with Amiga. I still have my original SASC/C++ install and docs. I just don't do much with it anymore. A little cracking here and there back then. But Video Toaster, Lightwave, and so on really got my attention. Being able to play some newer games while tasks were happening rocked! Windows couldn't do it well back then. Yep, cleaning your code was a think of passion. It still is, I see some programmers doing a very good job still.

Maybe that's why I don't see too many DSI hits with OS 4..?

And then there was the internet on top. That could be why, you don't see too many of a DSI, which is a good thing.

Why is that funny/odd? I adore my A4000 CSPPC but sometimes WinUAE makes it a bit quicker.

What's funny is I wanted to run the program from OS4 Workbench. And it ran fine I recall. But the installer didn't, so I wanted to install it to OS4 from UAE, using my Work volume mounted inside UAE. Good idea. Except, UAE had a bug that crashed, when writing to a real Amiga volume from within the emulation.

ReWarp..I can get Wipout 2097 functioning with my X5000 but..it's too slow to be playable. ReWarp is handy..

Well that's a good start. Expected it to fly. Despite the whipping speed of the X5000 compared to what it was written for it would likely be slowed down by software rendering. Some more ports of these games to native PPC would be nice.

I haven't created the time yet to test file transfers from UAE to OS 4 to check more for DSI hits.

I tried to compile the code on OS4 but it broke. Might need to cross compile this one. Tends to happen a bit now.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Amiga is a philosophy. Anyway, I noticed it before but I forgot. Copy files from Shell within E-UAE and zero DSI hits. To and from, size of file doesn't matter. I've setup my Directory Opus 4 and 5 in the Emulated Amiga to do ADOS Copy vs the File Managers. They cause a hit every time. So, within the Emulation, use their Copy methods but to go between Host and X5K..DOS Copy only. Now, even fewer hits! Ha!

Only thing left is DOpus 5. If I run it left out on Workbench or go to the folder it's at..every time I run it...I don't notice a DSI hit. WinUAE or X5K. Run it from AmiDock and often..DSI hit. Run it from Left Workbench Icon, and it may be run a few times clicking Cancel to switch back to it. Or you may run a few more copies of it. After some times, it'll finally crash the entire AmigaOne without a prompt. I'm not sure if it's a memory leak or what. But anyway, I think it's not very important because who actually runs it THAT much!?! Could be symptomatic to something else?

For now..all is doing well with these work-arounds. I'm done "debugging" for a little while. Time to use and Enjoy.

Update: OOps...Didn't check E-UAE + OS 4 well enough. Sigh..

[Hypex]

Originally Posted by AC/DC HACKER!

Amiga is a philosophy. Anyway, I noticed it before but I forgot. Copy files from Shell within E-UAE and zero DSI hits. To and from, size of file doesn't matter. I've setup my Directory Opus 4 and 5 in the Emulated Amiga to do ADOS Copy vs the File Managers. They cause a hit every time. So, within the Emulation, use their Copy methods but to go between Host and X5K..DOS Copy only. Now, even fewer hits! Ha!

I suspect it could be because the shell Copy commands uses a small buffer size that doesn't trip it off. If that is somehow related. Just checked and it's apparently 100KB which is bigger than 20KB I was using as a reference.


https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaO...Reference#COPY

Only thing left is DOpus 5. If I run it left out on Workbench or go to the folder it's at..every time I run it...I don't notice a DSI hit. WinUAE or X5K. Run it from AmiDock and often..DSI hit. Run it from Left Workbench Icon, and it may be run a few times clicking Cancel to switch back to it. Or you may run a few more copies of it. After some times, it'll finally crash the entire AmigaOne without a prompt. I'm not sure if it's a memory leak or what. But anyway, I think it's not very important because who actually runs it THAT much!?! Could be symptomatic to something else?

Could be anything. The clues are in the DSI. Could be something simple. Sometimes the AmigaOS set up was weird. For example, in the 68K days, if program didn't reply to the WBMessage it would crash.



Sometimes I find running one MUI program before another will crash. But I think a crash is serious enough, as it can trash memory, where ever the bytes flow. The worst one being the ones you forget about, didn't save that file, then get burned when the system freezes and you can't go back. :-)

For now..all is doing well with these work-arounds. I'm done "debugging" for a little while. Time to use and Enjoy.

I agree. Send too much time finding why things broke. Or why my own program crashed. :-D

Update: OOps...Didn't check E-UAE + OS 4 well enough. Sigh..

Fair enough.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Since AmigaOS doesn't have memory protection.. That would stop a lot of crashes and forced resets. Maybe 3.2 will have that, and perhaps they're adding it to OS 4.x?? Meanwhile, making a High Def floppy or a few of them are ways around the DSI. The mount them with DiskImage.. Hmm... Mounting a Hard File is an idea...

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Wellllllll... I made a new 2GB .hdf for E-UAE, using OS 3.1.4.1 and FFS. I copied a few programs with a lot of bigger and smaller files to it. Moved it to my X5K. Get it setup in the config file..ran E-UAE and copied files from it to AOS 4.1 host...no a single hit or lock. I repeated it for over an hour, and exit...reran, it...repeated. Not any problems; from Shell. Using either DOpus from the OS 3.1.4.1 install still causes locks. But being able to copy from emulation to host from Shell is a sweet find. It's softkicking from within emulation.

[Hypex]

Sounds good. Thanks for testing. Can be used as a baseline for safe copying.

They could add memory protection to OS3.1.4 for CPUs that have MMU. Though the MMU library is pretty well established. So they might be redoing the wheel.

OS4 does have some memory protection. That's why these DSI appear all over the place. Now if this basic protection was implemented in the 68K days we'd have more people complaining about incompatibility but better software in the long run.

[AC/DC HACKER!]

Yup about OS 4.1.1. Reinventing the wheel can have benefits.. UFOs fly better and faster than Airplanes and rockets, so.. Yup! I'm wondering about that with OS 3.2.