27 October 2014, 20:46 | #1 |
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News about AROS 68k development?
Is there a place for AROS 68k news? Will the OCS/ECS/AGA graphics routines be optimized someday? Is there a prevision for that?
[Found this: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...postcount=355] Last edited by Photon; 14 November 2014 at 22:53. |
27 October 2014, 23:04 | #2 |
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I am sorry to tell you that as far as I know Aros68k is still as bloated for real Amigas as an off season bodybuilder
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28 October 2014, 00:29 | #3 |
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28 October 2014, 07:59 | #4 |
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It is not going to get any better until (and not worth the trouble to even attempt to optimize anything):
a) gcc gets better m68k code generation and also includes support for register parameters directly. b) some other compiler becomes close-enough-gcc-compatible. |
28 October 2014, 14:58 | #5 |
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Have you tried LLVM with a 68k backend?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/llvm68k/ |
28 October 2014, 16:24 | #6 |
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I am 100% sure it won't work, AROS uses GCC extensions heavily. (and I don't do compiler stuff)
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28 October 2014, 23:40 | #7 | ||
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Quote:
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/v...C&type=&mode=0 staf: Quote:
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29 October 2014, 10:31 | #8 | |
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Quote:
Code:
static __inline__ void* OpenLibrary(const char* l, int v) { register void* __base __asm__("a6") = SysBase; register const char* __l __asm__("a1") = l; register void* __vr __asm__("d0") = (void*)v; __asm__ volatile ("jsr -552(%%a6)" : "=d" (__vr) : "a" (__base), "a" (__l), "d" (__vr) : "d1", "a0", "cc" ); return __vr; } |
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29 October 2014, 10:46 | #9 |
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AROS m68k uses the messy way (ugly macros and inline assembly) but I wouldn't call it "supported". Anything can be "supported" with inline assembly.
But as I said, I don't do compiler stuff and as long as compiled result is as bad as it is currently, there is no point to optimize anything non-obvious. |
29 October 2014, 11:04 | #10 | |
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Also m68k aros bounty 2 specifically said result must be rommable on real hardware. It can't have bss or data sections, at least without compiler understanding Amiga-specific special requirements for creating rommable bss/data. |
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29 October 2014, 12:22 | #11 | |
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the question is, what to do, if we take the above for granted? we can either give up on aros or think of some way to make the improvement happen and how it might get maintained even without being pushed updstream into the mainline. the bad thing is, you are not into the compiler work, staf would only supervise and guide if someone else would pick up the task and jason has almost left as it seems, doing only ocassional delints now and then, how he used to. there seems also to be a disagreement in aros dev team as how to approach it. i didnt exactly understand, who is opposing staf and what is the problem. perhaps the issue is the x86 backward compatibility, and therefore the recent effort deadwoods to adopt v1 changes to v0. seems this might be the issue. they got stuck half a way, cant decide to move forward, cant decide to drive back home. its really bad they dont discuss it properly, well maybe they do but only in the ml, i have given up on. |
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29 October 2014, 12:45 | #12 | |
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note discussion with heiroglyph and thor here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthre...=67649&page=14 heiroglyph: Quote:
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29 October 2014, 12:49 | #13 |
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so long story short: where to look for someone who might fix it for us? ;P
any ideas, or do we need to put aros back on the shelves for the time being? |
29 October 2014, 13:07 | #14 |
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First major step (before even attempting to think about other problems) is to get supported tool chain (compiler/linker/stuff) that is m68k and amiga OS ABI friendly. For example knows what to do with library base, A6 register. Without ugly hacks. It must "just work". We are trying to develop stuff, not fight with tools that are normally supposed to make it easier and faster.
Getting aros to build with both gcc and some other compiler probably will be the biggest problem. Non-m68k developers surely don't want to switch whole tool chain which "just works" with other platforms. GCC has obsoleted lots of old platforms in recent years. |
29 October 2014, 13:15 | #15 |
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so you are saying that gcc support for amiga-m68k would have to be oficially maintained again? but you said before it was unrealistic?
while i also expect that aros developers will sure not give up gcc for anything else, they might accept to accomodate changes to make aros vbcc compilable. the problem is the amount of changes across the code i guess? the different asm inlining convention being one of the issues? |
29 October 2014, 16:29 | #16 |
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since i have an imprecssion this is not an issue that can be solved for 68k exclusively and would need a consens with the whole aros team i posted an inquiry on aros-exec:
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/v...forumpost90807 (for better or worse) |
29 October 2014, 17:29 | #17 | |
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One could argue that this takes away the focus from ABIv1, but the biggest problem is really the lack of developers. It doesn't really matter whether the users are interested in ABIv1 or not, until it's finished. It was mostly staf working on it, and he got a little discouraged over the years. He tried to recruit other people to work on it, he even gave a list of what needs to be done, but no one was up to the job. |
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29 October 2014, 17:44 | #18 | |
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29 October 2014, 17:48 | #19 |
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@bszili
im not saying v0 is pulling the development resources from v1, at least not directly. i understand with v0 on trunk deadwood is dedicating himself to maintain an interim solution, because v1 would be binary incompatible, was taking too long time and in the meantime aros community has to relay on something to live on. this is not a bad idea at all. but i wonder if the result is that the dynamics necessary to put up with a jump towards v1 even more lost and we hang now in the mid air. said that, the priority should probably be taking care of the rest of minor bugs in userland to make aros user attractive, then reaching full v1 probably along the staf and tonis postulates, and then first more platforms and software. the question is where to find some equivalkent of jason and staf to take care of kernel and compilers. |
29 October 2014, 17:48 | #20 | |
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