Tf1260

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

TF1260 is a hobby project TF made for himself and fitting his specs.. planned to release but then people started to scrw aroud. trying to sell 536 boards that was cloned.. and DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND.. so well then . he have his card.. all demands would meanmore work. why release.

and this attitude. DOES NOT HELP!

Nice project.

DOES NOT HELP!....me. Indeed.

I have no attitude Chucky. I have money ready to support the project. Isn't that what is needed to make it more broadly available?

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

I have no attitude Chucky. I have money ready to support the project. Isn't that what is needed to make it more broadly available?

In short: no

[Chucky]

Meanwhile I enjoy mine..

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

In short: no

Well Chucky, sounds to me like this whole thing is a non-issue then. We've solved it.

Stephen doesn't need my(our) financial support to bring the TF1260 product forward because he doesn't want to really. And since Stephen is only doing the TF1260 for himself for fun as a hobby, it's just a tease and does nothing for us or the scene in the end. It's not a product we can buy, nothing to see here, move on.

Nice that he'll have the 060 in his system. I hope the trapdoor closes. I guess I'll look for the performance in free emulators instead for now.

Conclusion: I just saved some money I was going to spend on an 68060 setup I absolutely don't need for absolutely anything. I will continue to enjoy my 020/030 based systems...and I'll live!

If all goes well, perhaps that other company that caused the TF1260 to not be released will release a 1260 instead and they'll get my money? I don't discriminate Chucky! First to deliver a product gets a shot at the money - simple rules. Only so many empty expansion bays left. WARP is still in the running for one of those empty bays...if they ever reply to the order email.

[AndyC]

The sense of entitlement you are conveying here is overwhelming.

Honestly, who cares? Design and fabricate your own 1260 card, or like you say, find someone else willing to take your money. Quite why you feel the need to whine on here is completely beyond me.

Given that TF never did this for profit anyway, and only left the scene because of the conduct of some of its members, I'm sure it's of little consequence to him what you think. And as you may have gathered, there are only a very small number of these boards "in the wild". The chances of you getting your hands on one with patter like that are incredibly remote...

A.

[Chucky]

it was not a tease. but when people sytarted to demand and fuck around. it became a tease..
people must understand things: you cannot DEMAND stuff if people do things. sure you can ASK.. it is all about how it is handled.

would I handle it different? yes. do I accept how it is: YES at is HIS project he do whatever he like to.
sad it ended like it did: absolutley.

and there us no COMPANY. it is PERSONS.. it is not a PRODUCT. it is a PROJECT.. a HOBBYproject.

Let me repeat: IT IS NOT A COMPANTY! most of this ISN'T and this is also something people have an issue with.. people have day jobs, family etc. they do this stuff on their spare time. and it consumes ALOT of energy.

and Warpguys maybe not answer mails. I understand. I miss MANY mails as I can get flooded.. and some people do not take a "no" for an answer in the end better just put away for later..

stop demanding! some questions yes. DEMAND. no.

again: there is no company, there is no product. there is just a fun idea. do too much fuzz about it and the fun ends and it suddenly becomes a burden.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Meanwhile I enjoy mine..

Oh, I see...so this is a "na na na...I have one, you don't kind of a thing"?

I do see a lot of this need to feel special through some rare piece of hardware on this Amiga scene. It's quite funny to me really.

You know what, you've convinced me Chucky - I won't buy ay 68060 - going to be special by not having the 68060.

I mean...what would I do with it? Play DOOM - the game that contributed to death of Amiga itself? At 30 FPS?

I'm starting to think anyone who plays DOOM on Amiga is paying tribute to the very game that contributed to the death of one of the most friendly computers ever!. I deleted this garbage game from all my WHDLoads!

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by AndyC

The sense of entitlement you are conveying here is overwhelming.

Honestly, who cares? Design and fabricate your own 1260 card, or like you say, find someone else willing to take your money. Quite why you feel the need to whine on here is completely beyond me.

Given that TF never did this for profit anyway, and only left the scene because of the conduct of some of its members, I'm sure it's of little consequence to him what you think. And as you may have gathered, there are only a very small number of these boards "in the wild". The chances of you getting your hands on one with patter like that are incredibly remote...

A.

This thread has been quite educational. It reminded me why the Amiga died with the attitude toward the progress and wider availability of things. It reminded me how useless these upgrades are really - huge amount of money for boards to play a handful of games at best. Games that were on PC and contributed to the death of the Amiga scene.

[Chucky]

play games? nah. I am a demoscener so I run demos on my TF.. and my Warp (to be honest. my 1200 is right now equipped with my warp)

reason why I got both: I did not demand. I did DiagROM that helped developing those products and got able to get my hands on this project as I HELPED THEM. never demanded anything.

[Chucky]

(but the hangover the warp deal costed me. I am not sure if it was worth it )

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by Chucky

play games? nah. I am a demoscener so I run demos on my TF.. and my Warp (to be honest. my 1200 is right now equipped with my warp)

reason why I got both: I did not demand. I did DiagROM that helped developing those products and got able to get my hands on this project as I HELPED THEM. never demanded anything.

Great work doing the work, helping the scene, helping development Chucky. To be commanded - 0% sarcasm.

My question - how does your work benefit the wider scene if these don't get out into the wild? What's the point of the good work you did? Nothing?

[Chucky]

DiagROM have helped soo many so. I am quite happy with my part of that.
and if someone does a project that my stuff helped them with. I am happy" and if theu think: nah this is for me. then so be it.
sad? yes! but still so be it

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

This thread has been quite educational. It reminded me why the Amiga died with the attitude toward the progress and wider availability of things. It reminded me how useless these upgrades are really - huge amount of money for boards to play a handful of games at best. Games that were on PC and contributed to the death of the Amiga scene.

Are you OK? Do you need someone to check in on you?

Covid has been hard on all of us.

A.

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Are you OK? Do you need someone to check in on you?

Covid has been hard on all of us.

A.

Covid has been eye opening for me.

FYI - disinfecting your Amiga daily prevents yellowing.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

If I want an 060 I'll find someone who sells it and buy it. TF. WARP. Blizz. If not, no skin off my back.

That's the correct way to look at it. Which begs the question... Why create this drama if your needs are catered for elsewhere?

I am not contributing by making the device, but I want to contribute by supporting it.

I didn't realise Stephen had asked for support for the TF1260. Care to point me to where he did, in case I missed it?

If my support is not wanted,

It's not.

quit the drama, the teasing and nonsense.

He did.

There are some really good developers doing some lovely things for the scene.

Indeed, and that's great. Give them your support.

As I said...Save the Drama for the Llama.

This thread has been quiet for a while now until you posted.

TF1260 is a product?

No, it's not.

Make it and we'll buy it.

See above.

Don't and someone else will make it. Oh...and we live in a free world where competition exists. I can buy a Coke or a Pepsi.

Excellent. Go buy one of the competing products and avoid all the drama you seem so interested in.

Stephen should man up. Product looks ready, release it. This hard to get nonsense is so 5th grade childish from all I read. Life is hard. You pay some taxes. You die. Let's get on with it!

Awww, diddums.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

DOES NOT HELP!....me. Indeed.

Ah, now we're getting to see what the real problem is. You believe that someone should automatically go out of their way to help you, for no reason other than your sense of self importance. Well, to be honest, from what I've seen, you don't appear to be a very important person at all, and you've certainly put me off every helping you.

I have no attitude Chucky.

Oh, you're serious...

I have money ready to support the project. Isn't that what is needed to make it more broadly available?

No, and that's quite the arrogant assumption to make.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Well Chucky, sounds to me like this whole thing is a non-issue then. We've solved it.

Stephen doesn't need my(our) financial support to bring the TF1260 product forward because he doesn't want to really.

Bingo.

And since Stephen is only doing the TF1260 for himself for fun as a hobby, it's just a tease and does nothing for us or the scene in the end. It's not a product we can buy, nothing to see here, move on.

Ah, and you were so close to understanding. You're right in that it's a hobby done just for fun, and you're right that it's not a product you can buy and you should just move on. The question you should really be asking though, is why it feels like a tease to you? It sounds to me like you've somehow convinced yourself you're owed something that you're clearly not.

Nice that he'll have the 060 in his system. I hope the trapdoor closes. I guess I'll look for the performance in free emulators instead for now.

An excellent idea, a powerful emulation host will always outperform an 060. And, of course, there are all the other 060 hardware options you mentioned before - I'm sure someone would gladly relieve you of a nice wad of cash for one of them.

Conclusion: I just saved some money I was going to spend on an 68060 setup I absolutely don't need for absolutely anything. I will continue to enjoy my 020/030 based systems...and I'll live!

Excellent, a glass-half-full sort of approach. Well done, this will help to prevent disappointment when you imagine you're entitled to something else in the future.

If all goes well, perhaps that other company that caused the TF1260 to not be released will release a 1260 instead and they'll get my money?

What company is that then?

I don't discriminate Chucky! First to deliver a product gets a shot at the money - simple rules. Only so many empty expansion bays left. WARP is still in the running for one of those empty bays...if they ever reply to the order email.

That sounds like a good approach to take, though it does beg the question why you're drumming up this drama if you just intend to wait any buy whatever board becomes available. Pretty sure the Warp isn't available for the general public to order yet though, so be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment there too. Also, don't forget there's the ACA1260 in the works too, Apollo and Blizzard 1260s regularly show up on the 2nd hand market, and of course there's the Vampire 1200...

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

Oh, I see...so this is a "na na na...I have one, you don't kind of a thing"?

Haha, just looks like someone lowering themselves to your schoolchild level

I do see a lot of this need to feel special through some rare piece of hardware on this Amiga scene. It's quite funny to me really.

Well, you say you find it funny, but really your posts make you sound rather upset, like a child who's been promised sweets and is now having a tantrum because his daddy didn't get a chance to go to the shops for some.

You know what, you've convinced me Chucky - I won't buy ay 68060 - going to be special by not having the 68060.

An excellent idea. You go blaze a trail through the retro world with your 040-powered A1200. It'll help you avoid getting involved in this drama you seem to have a love-hate relationship with.

I mean...what would I do with it? Play DOOM - the game that contributed to death of Amiga itself? At 30 FPS?

I'm starting to think anyone who plays DOOM on Amiga is paying tribute to the very game that contributed to the death of one of the most friendly computers ever!. I deleted this garbage game from all my WHDLoads!

Wow, the pain is strong with this one

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

This thread has been quite educational. It reminded me why the Amiga died with the attitude toward the progress and wider availability of things. It reminded me how useless these upgrades are really - huge amount of money for boards to play a handful of games at best. Games that were on PC and contributed to the death of the Amiga scene.

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

My question - how does your work benefit the wider scene if these don't get out into the wild? What's the point of the good work you did? Nothing?

Why does work have to be released to have any point? Just because you don't personally benefit from something, doesn't mean it's pointless. And this especially applies in the hobby world. If I create the world's most detailed database of rare house bricks to catalogue my tremendous collection of industrial clay artifacts, why does it matter a jot whether I make that database available to you or anyone else? It helps me keep my collection in order, and and that's all that matters. I don't own anyone else anything.

[AJCopland]

Originally Posted by Daedalus

If I create the world's most detailed database of rare house bricks to catalogue my tremendous collection of industrial clay artifacts, why does it matter a jot whether I make that database available to you or anyone else?

Did you spend years telling people you'd build it and that they'd be able to have it?
Did you get all the way through building it with just a couple of minor, in your own words, tweaks but that it was already in the hands of a few people?
Did you then turn around and say that you'd never finish it and you'd changed your mind because someone was excited and asked you about it on the internet?

I can respect Stephens decision but I cannot help but be frustrated at it, especially as he keeps open sourcing things and then deleting them which is completely against the ethos. The blow back from doing it though was always going to be a massive sense of disappointment.

Before you say anything, yes I have multiple open source projects, and contribute to others.

There were lots of people cheering him on, hoping that he'd succeed, and as evidenced by Chucky's card he did...

It feels very much like a few ruined it for everyone, and that's upsetting, it's letting the few ruin it for the many.
I am glad that he got what he wanted from it, and I have a TF330 and TF328 which I love, but I was really hoping to get the other cards too.

You can drop the whole "he didn't ask for support" rubbish, he posted about it, announced them, made a youtube channel, sold them, etc. Of course people supported him and his efforts.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by AJCopland

Did you spend years telling people you'd build it and that they'd be able to have it?

What would it matter if I did? I don't get your point. Nobody is owed anything here.

Did you get all the way through building it with just a couple of minor, in your own words, tweaks but that it was already in the hands of a few people?
Did you then turn around and say that you'd never finish it and you'd changed your mind because someone was excited and asked you about it on the internet?

If I changed my mind because the moon was the wrong phase and it messed up my chakras, what difference would it make? What do I owe anyone?

I can respect Stephens decision but I cannot help but be frustrated at it, especially as he keeps open sourcing things and then deleting them which is completely against the ethos. The blow back from doing it though was always going to be a massive sense of disappointment.

And that's fine, be disappointed, be frustrated. But nothing was ever a given. Whipping up drama because you can't handle your own disappointment and move on isn't going to solve anything.

Before you say anything, yes I have multiple open source projects, and contribute to others.

Congratulations, well done. Again, not sure what point you're trying to make with this one, or what you thought I'd say.

There were lots of people cheering him on, hoping that he'd succeed, and as evidenced by Chucky's card he did...

Well, if all it needs is a few minor tweaks then it's probably pretty close to complete. Personally, I find the last mile to be the toughest - I've dozens of projects that are 90-99% complete - good enough for me, not good enough for general consumption. But good enough for me is good enough for me.

It feels very much like a few ruined it for everyone, and that's upsetting, it's letting the few ruin it for the many.

And so often it's the case that the few ruin it for the many - this ongoing pandemic is a pretty obvious example - but doing something that you don't enjoy just to spite that few doesn't work in this case either, because then you're doing something you don't enjoy, and that undeserving small minority get the benefit of it.

I am glad that he got what he wanted from it, and I have a TF330 and TF328 which I love, but I was really hoping to get the other cards too.

Me too... And I blame the massively self-entitled minority who sucked the fun out of it.

You can drop the whole "he didn't ask for support" rubbish, he posted about it, announced them, made a youtube channel, sold them, etc. Of course people supported him and his efforts.

So you can't point me to where he asked for support for the TF1260 either? I have occasionally posted progress reports for things I was working on, but I tend to avoid it these days because of the attitude of some in the community. And I'm far from the only one.

[AJCopland]

@Deadelus
the point of all that was when you start a conversation, like these threads, showing what you're doing it is not done without getting something back. What you get back is support, and what you have created is excitement/enthusiasm/interest in what you are doing.

The idea is that it encourages and supports the person creating the thing by showing that there is interest.

So no, there is nothing concrete, no formal agreement, but if you think there isn't trust being broken, or a social agreement that isn't being adhered too then you seem to be willfully misunderstanding peoples frustrations.
This was my point about my open source projects, I wasn't expecting you to reply to it. It's there because i wanted to frame the conversation so that you can see that the points I'm making are based on being annoyed at Stephens repeated deletion of his open source work, and that when you open source something you get the benefit of that support from a community even if it's only verbal/enthusiasm for what you do.

Also I wasn't creating the drama, I'm trying to explain to you what you seem to be misunderstanding about others frustrations. The way you responded to YouKnowWho, and then to me, has been really condescending.

I don't want this thread to continue, but when people come in and ask about something, or are annoyed about it being canned then please don't be so dismissive of their feelings because it does not improve things.

[AJCopland]

Anyway if there's a moderator lurking around maybe it's time for this thread to be closed/locked?

[Vypr]

Originally Posted by YouKnowWho

What do you mean?

Shall we bow? Kneel? Beg? Be like Garth and proclaim "we're not worthy" ...while wearing a VIDEO TOASTER T-shirt?

This whole TF1260 thing is silly. Crap or get off the pot. If I want an 060 I'll find someone who sells it and buy it. TF. WARP. Blizz. If not, no skin off my back.

I am not contributing by making the device, but I want to contribute by supporting it. If my support is not wanted, quit the drama, the teasing and nonsense. There are some really good developers doing some lovely things for the scene. As I said...Save the Drama for the Llama.

TF1260 is a product? Make it and we'll buy it. Don't and someone else will make it. Oh...and we live in a free world where competition exists. I can buy a Coke or a Pepsi.

Stephen should man up. Product looks ready, release it. This hard to get nonsense is so 5th grade childish from all I read. Life is hard. You pay some taxes. You die. Let's get on with it!

The only drama I see is from yourself. TF has made their decision clear thanks to greedy and unscrupulous people ripping off his designs and generally badmouthing him he ahs suspended all work as the disadvantages outweigh the benefits.
Foot stomping temper tantrums like this are not the way to change his mind. You want an 060 accelerator your Amiga well as you pointed out there are plenty of alternatives out there I'm pretty sure the amount of fucks that TF gives about this can be counted on the fingers of a multiple amputee.