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Old 22 March 2021, 18:09   #1
amiga_amigo
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Problem with configuring memory

Hello all,

i'd need some help from the Amiga gurus - so please halt your meditation for a second...
I recently got an A2630 for my aged Amiga2000 and now wanted to emulate my real system using WinUAE 4.4.
Since both of my internal floppies and my Syquest sq3270s external drive died, i hadn't touched this Amiga for years and getting it running again is a bit tedious.
I borrowed a floppy from my A500 for testing and that worked. Now, i'd like to try installing an sd-card "harddisk" using WinUAE and get a SCSI2SD for my A2000.
But step by step...
First about configuring WinUAE correctly. Two problems:

1) memory configuration:

My system:
Amiga (B)2000 (rev.6), 1MB chip
A2091, 1MB, rom v6.6
A2630, 4MB, rom v7

I started with an A500 quickstart config and modified it to use the A2000 chipset extra, CPU 68030, MMU, 68882 FPU enabled, 25MHz custom CPU frequency.
The "Chip" slider in "Ram" / "Memory Settings" is set to 1MB.
For the A2091 (configured with correct rom in "Expansions", DMAC-01), i used "Z2 Fast Ram #1" from the "Advanced Memory Settings" and set the slider to 1MB.
Manufacturer is set to 514 and Product to 2.
For the A2630 (configured with correct rom in "Expansions") i set the "Accelerator board memory" slider to 4MB.
Since these 4MB didn't show up anywhere, i used the "Z2 Fast Ram #2" from the "Advanced Memory Settings" and set the slider to 4MB as well. Manufacturer 514 and Product 81.

Now "Hardware info" shows this:
Code:
 -  A2620/A2630    0x00f00000 0x00010000 -
Z2  Z2 Fast RAM[2] 0x00200000 0x00400000 0x0202/0x51
Z2  A590/A2091     0x00e90000 0x00010000 0x0202/0x02
Z2  -Z2 Fast RAM   0x00600000 0x00100000 0x0202/0x51
First entry is the A2630 rom (?), second entry 4MB memory. Product id 0x51 == 81 ok.
According to the 2630 manual, memory is auto-configured first, so memory start at x200000 is fine i guess.
Third entry is the A2091 rom. Product id 02 ok.
But why is the 1MB ram assigned to id 0x51 instead of 0x02?

ShowConfig from Workbench also displays the 1MB as A2630 board instead of A2091.
Emulation works, but nevertheless i'd like to know what i'm doing wrong.
Surely the 4MB shouldn't be Z2 Ram, right? It's sitting in the processor slot...

So the questions are:
How do i configure the 1MB for the A2091 (or my whole system for that matter) correctly? Any tutorials i missed?
Also - how is the "Accelerator board memory" slider supposed to work? The 4MB are not appearing unless i use the "Z2 Fast Ram #2" slot.
But if i use this slot, i can set the "Accelerator board memory" slider to whatever i want - makes no difference (apparently).
Maybe someone can enlighten me?

2) 68000 fallback (maybe related to memory config?):

When booting with right mouse button pressed and selecting the 68000 fallback option, WinUAE reboots but stops immediately with a HALT2 condition.
Checking the GUI, i see the processor was set back to the 68000, MMU and FPU disabled, but emulation speed is still set to my custom 25MHz.
Pressing reset from the GUI restarts emulation with the 68030 again (which is fine).
Is the HALT2 due to my faulty memory configuration, a bug or is the fallback option simply not supported?

Thanks for your help,
Michael

Last edited by amiga_amigo; 22 March 2021 at 20:45.
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Old 23 March 2021, 19:00   #2
Toni Wilen
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Could you attach your config file?

I guess something goes wrong when there are multiple RAM boards and one of them is accelerator board, probably some combination that was missed.

It shouldn't affect how the board works so 68000 fallback probably is caused by something else.
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Old 23 March 2021, 19:33   #3
teppic
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On a real 2630 the 4MB is autoconfigured in the 8mb Z2 space, but it supports additional memory via a connected board and this isn't autoconfigured. I don't know if the ROM is supposed to deal with this or not.

I assume WinUAE is using the slider for this extra memory rather than the 4MB autoconfigured memory. It looks like you have to add the auto configured memory manually like you did.
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Old 24 March 2021, 10:10   #4
amiga_amigo
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Thanks for responding - here's the config.
Attached Files
File Type: uae My_A2000.uae (12.1 KB, 68 views)
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Old 25 March 2021, 20:01   #5
teppic
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Toni, I've a question on top of the OP's related to this - does WinUAE support the slow down that a 68030 like this would have when accessing the rest of the system? i.e. it runs at 25MHz when accessing its own RAM, but if it goes to chip RAM or the RAM on the hard drive it will drop to 7MHz, obviously causing a huge slowdown (on top of it being only 16bit).
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Old 25 March 2021, 20:51   #6
amiga_amigo
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I don't think the clock drops to 7MHz when accessing 16bit memory (chip or fast).
The manual mentions that appropriate waitstates are inserted to slow down the 68030 while accessing "A2000 resources" (so yes - it's similar to dropping the clock to 7MHz).
The 32bit memory on my 2630 is rated at 80ns whereas the 16bit ram on the 2091 is 70ns.
So i guess there are waitstates with onboard ram as well and the only difference in memory access is 16 vs 32 bits.
The 68030 has a (small) instruction and data cache to gain speed (don't know if the cpu/mmu does prefetch, though).

Last edited by amiga_amigo; 25 March 2021 at 21:02.
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Old 25 March 2021, 21:09   #7
teppic
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Yeah, it should use enough waitstates so that it is effectively 7MHz since it's not doing anything the rest of the time. If WinUAE doesn't emulate this though it'll be accessing the system at full 25MHz, making it a lot faster than the real hardware. (The latest beta has an option to set the extra RAM as 16bit, by default it'll incorrectly be accessed at 32bit)
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Old 25 March 2021, 21:40   #8
Toni Wilen
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Yes and no.

In cycle-exact mode ("memory cycle-exact" is enough) emulator does wait for free chip ram bus cycle but execution times aren't accurate.

68020+ internals are too unknown to be able to have cycle-accurate emulation ("unfortunately" 68020+ bus sequencer and instruction scheduler run separately).
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Old 28 September 2021, 17:29   #9
amiga_amigo
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Bump.

Now since the 4.9.0 beta is stabilizing maybe Toni needs a break from the chipset emulation changes and could look into this?

Recap:

When combining A2630(+4MB) and A2091(+2MB) expansion boards, i'm facing two problems/bugs? - tried with 4.4.0 and current betas, attached a new bare minimum config file

1) A2630 onboard memory configuration:

First of all, an A2630 doesn't get an autoconfig id in the "Hardware info" GUI-page - shouldn't it be ID 0x0202/0x51 actually?
Well... The way i tried to add the A2630 onboard 4MB in the "RAM" page manually, they configure at the beginning of Z2-space (with ID 0x0202/0x51 - ok).
But then the ram of the A2091 gets assigned the same id 0x51. It's set to the correct value of 0x0A only if there's no A2630 + 4MB ram in the config.
Also, the 4MB are unlinked from the A2630 and seem to be considered a separate memory expansion board even though i assigned them the A2630's id.
I can move them up and down the boards list independently from the A2630 in the "Hardware info" page with "Custom board order".
... unlike the ram of the A2091 - it sticks to the A2091 even with its wrong id.

2) Switching to fallback 68000 cpu gives a HALT2:

Holding right mouse button to bring up the A2630 processor selection during boot and clicking the 68000 option stops emulation with HALT2.
In the "CPU and FPU" GUI-page, 68000 CPU, MMU none and FPU none are automatically set.
But "Hardware info" page shows the A2630 unchanged and the 4MB fastram are still present in Z2 space... no wonder - it's considered a separate memory expansion board, right?
On my real hardware, the fallback option disables the A2630 autoconfig and the onboard fastram of the A2630 is not available (though some internet sites claim differently).
So in summary - A2630 expansion board with the 68000 fallback doesn't work in emulation - HALT2 plus wrong amount of Z2 fastram with my faulty ram setup.

Thanks for taking a look
Attached Files
File Type: uae A2000_A2091_A2630.uae (12.5 KB, 33 views)
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Old 28 September 2021, 19:02   #10
Toni Wilen
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Main problem is that accelerator expansion GUI only has single RAM option but 2620/2630 supports two (separate expansion board that connects to 26x0) which makes it impossible to have "correct" Z2 configuration that is "child" of 26x0 board.

It is not designed to handle this kind of configurations, at least not yet.

There is a sort of hack that handles HD + RAM boards (RAM gets autoconfig ID from HD parent board board) but it can get confused when there are multiple boards with similar functions.

-

Could you attach "showconfig debug" output when board is in 68020/030 mode and when in 68000 mode? Most accelerator board emulations are made by guessing and as you said, there are lots of misinformation floating around.

Which 26x0 ROM version?
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Old 29 September 2021, 01:22   #11
amiga_amigo
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Hi Toni,

sorry for the late answer.

Both roms for the A2630 and A2091 are v7.

Don't know what you mean with "showconfig debug output" but i've set "Current Configuration" and ticked "Enable full logging" in the "Paths" Gui-page.
Both tests were done with the config file i attached previously.

The file "68030_winuaelog.txt" was saved when i started emulation, held the right mouse button pressed and selected the 68030.
The normal kickstart screen came up (no hdf!), and i stopped emulation.

The file "68000_winuaelog.txt" was saved when i hit start, held the right mouse button and selected the 68000 fallback.
Emulation ended with HALT2 before the kickstart screen was displayed.


You are saying the accelerator Gui provides only a single ram option, which is for adding expansion memory like DKB or BigRam i suppose.
But these memory expansions are not autoconfiguring to Z2 memoryspace - whereas the onboard ram is.
The gui for the A2091 doesn't even have a ram option at all, yet the onboard 2MB can be set in the "Ram" GUI-page.
As soon as there's an A2091 as first Z2-board, the "Z2 Fast Ram #1" slot in advanced memory settings changes to "Z2 Fast Ram #1 [size] (A590/A2091)".
Couldn't something like this work for the A2630 onboard memory (and other cpu boards mapping memory into Z2-space) as well?

Regarding the HD+Ram hack with ram getting autoconfig id from parent board:
As far as i know, the A2091 has 2 IDs - 0x02 (or 0x03 - depending on DMAC version) for the scsi controller part, and 0x0A for the ram expansion part.
Both ids are shown correctly in WinUAE "Hardware info" when no A2630 is present.
The A2630 has only a single ID - 0x51.
As soon as you add an A2630, "Hardware info" shows the A2630 as first board in the list - no type Z2(!) and no ID(!)... and the A2091 ram (previously id 0x0A) changes id to 0x51.
It's still named "Z2 Fast Ram #1 [size] (A590/A2091)" though and tied to the A2091 in the boards list.

So - without knowing anything about the internals, it seems to me like:
The memory configured in Z2 Fast Ram #1 slot inherits the id from the first (autoconfig?) board, which is the a2630 now -> 0x51.
BUT it is also tied to the first Z2-board (the A2091, since the A2630 is not considered Z2-type -> naming and boards list).
Everything gets confused.
Maybe, if the A2630 (or any cpu board with memory mapped to Z2-space) was considered a "special" Z2-board... it does autoconfigure into Z2-memory after all.
It's already moved to the top of the boards list. Now if it was also considered the first Z2-board, Z2 Fast Ram #1 slot would be fully associated with the A2630.
Id correct, boards list correct, all auto-magically.
Regular Z2-boards like my A2091 become second, third, ... Z2-type boards in boards list and are configured in Z2 Fast Ram slots #2 to #... then.

... if my assumptions are correct.
Attached Files
File Type: txt 68030_winuaelog.txt (37.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: txt 68000_winuaelog.txt (37.4 KB, 33 views)
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Old 29 September 2021, 22:02   #12
Toni Wilen
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I meant "sys:tools/showconfig debug" output when using real A2630. I thought you have one? (This is the problem with HD and accelerator board emulation, without having the board, many features can be only guessed)
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Old 30 September 2021, 10:33   #13
amiga_amigo
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Ah sorry.
Sure - will do this tonight.
I'll just have to put these two cards into my second A2000 mainboard and swap Kickstarts. Haven't finished recapping my "main" machine yet...

Btw. my previous idea might not be feasible even without considering all the special cases i don't know about or problems with how WinUAE works internally.
The Z2 fast ram slots in "advanced memory settings" don't seem to be ordered in the sense of: slot #1 corresponds to first board in boards list, slot #2 corresponds to second board, etc. This would be needed for my idea to work.
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Old 30 September 2021, 15:47   #14
amiga_amigo
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So here they are:
I've put only the two cards in.
"config030.txt" is saved after choosing the 68030 processor from the boot menu. The A2630 is autoconfigured first and adds its ram at the beginning of Z2-memoryspace - as described in the manual. The A2091 adds its 2Mb afterwards.
"config000.txt" is saved when choosing the fallback option. The A2630 is shutoff completely, therefore the A2091 adds its memory at the beginning of Z2-memoryspace.
Attached Files
File Type: txt config000.txt (1.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: txt config030.txt (2.4 KB, 37 views)
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Old 01 October 2021, 22:45   #15
Toni Wilen
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Thanks.

RAM does not disappear in 68000 mode because it isn't accelerator board RAM. I have plans to add second accelerator RAM option (some accelerators also support 2 SIMM slots with different capacity) but it won't be in next official version.
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Old 04 October 2021, 10:46   #16
amiga_amigo
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Thanks Toni!
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