Atari SysVR4 has Motif...

Noth · 19 July 2016, 21:42

So, since someone has uploaded a disk image of ASV, let's try to extract it from there. Problem: no Atari emulator that I know of can run it, because it requires perfect Atari TT emulation (MMU+FPU+SCSI and more...).

I tried mounting it in AMIX, no dice, even adding a rdb to the image. Losetup in Linux didn't work either, either I'm getting the partition limits wrong or the UFS they use is something not quite old/44bsd.

Your efforts are welcome! We could get their Mosaic port with that too, I'm fairly certain it'll run in AMIX since after all it's SVR4 all the way ...

mark_k · 20 July 2016, 15:28

Where can the disk image be downloaded from?

emufan · 20 July 2016, 15:50

Atari System V UNIX - Unofficial Website

Noth · 25 July 2016, 17:50

Anyone had any luck with this?

Amiga_CDTV · 26 July 2016, 18:30

We must be getting desperate to resort to Atari Unix

I found this old thread and was able to mount the asv-mark-fixed images root in Ubuntu!

mark_k · 26 July 2016, 20:35

I could mount (one of) the asv-richard image (asv_boot.img) partitions like this:

mount -o ro,loop,offset=149504000,sizelimit=191054848 -t ufs asv_boot.img /media/test

The "file" command gives this info about that partition:
Unix Fast File system [v1] (big-endian), last mounted on /home, last written at Sat Jun 8 04:06:41 1991, clean flag 0, number of blocks 186577, number of data blocks 180288, number of cylinder groups 56, block size 8192, fragment size 1024, minimum percentage of free blocks 10, rotational delay 2ms, disk rotational speed 60rps, TIME optimization

You can extract/copy the X11/Motif-related files from that partition (look in rootshadow/bin/X11). Maybe someone could try mounting the other partitions and trying to run some of the command-line (non-X) binaries on AMIX?

Noth · 15 March 2017, 19:37

OK I finally got round to looking at all this again... And unfortunately the asv-mark-fixed.dsk I have doesn't have libXm.so ! Plus a few others like libMrm.so . Does anyone have these libraries? It does appear that Atari's SysVR4 binaries work in AMIX, sc for ex loads. I think we can get a mwm / wish desktop this way. If I can get all the files together in the right places, I'll create a big amix pkg and upload it.

Also, the atariunix.com website seems to be down so no access to all that stuff they had over there... I'll try and contact Tenox to see if he has anything stashed away.

Amiga_CDTV · 16 March 2017, 17:09

atariunix.com seems to be up again now (at least works for me).

Can't add anything that would help, but thanks for trying and it sounds pretty cool if we could squeeze something usable from a competing product

Noth · 17 March 2017, 02:07

Actually archive.org's mirror from last year yielded valid files... some of it good, some not so good. I'm trawling through comp.unix.amiga to see how far some people got with certain packages, especially binutils. I found this bsd43lib that provides some probably useful things.. but needs an assembler. I did get elm to compile and work, so that's one console mail program.

Also a tip: export TERM=xterm when telnetting in and screen works much better. And in screen, editing with vi displays normally, not like from direct telnet.

mparson · 20 December 2019, 22:55

Resurrecting an old thread, but... I got Motif & mwm from ASV working on Amix!

It's Motif 1.1.1 and it seems to require the X11 libs from ASV, so, you need to set an appropriate LD_LIBRARY_PATH before executing mwm.

It can be downloaded from here: http://www.bl.org/~mparson/amix/atari-motif.pkg.gz

(there are some other pkgs I've built in that same directory, many of which are also now mirrored on amigaunix.com's download section)

gunzip it, then install with pkgadd -d `pwd`/atari-motif.pkg

Details on what I did to get it going are in /usr/atariX/README.amix

Now that we have Motif, I'm working on compiling NCSA Mosaic with it. The docs seem to indicate that it should work with Motif 1.1, and I've had to #ifdef around a few things, but now it's failing at the final link stage.

mparson · 21 December 2019, 05:50

I found some Mosaic builds on atariunix.com, so, I thought I'd try those. Looks like it's the source tree with the compiled bits in it, so, I might have a way to see if I can make it compile on Amix too.

I tried to run it and found that I missed a library, libXnsl.{a,so}. I've re-packaged it and will be uploading a new copy shortly, if you've already grabbed a copy, then you'll want to pkgrm if if you've installed it, and grab the newer one.

With the missing library in place, I now get the Mosaic splash screen, but haven't seen the actual browser yet. Will keep trying.

Leo24 · 22 December 2019, 14:37

Cool, I always wondered about abi compatibility between Amix and ASV, as during that time SVR4 m68k abi went through some changes. (AT&T compiler vs. gcc; pointer return value in d0 instead of a0, etc.).

I also tinker with Amix from time to time, but I get always frustrated really fast, since it's a major pita to compile anything more modern for the system.

Having now Motiv running on Amiga, try now to compile CDE with all its tools to Amix and you will become my personal hero if you're successful. :-)

mparson · 22 December 2019, 16:20

Unfortunately, the Motif bits from ASV are version 1.1.1 and I'm pretty sure even early releases of CDE were based on Motif 2.x, not that we have access to the source code for ancient^W"classic CDE releases. Current CDE would require OpenMotif. I suppose I could give that a shot, but I'm betting it's going to want a modern compiler, and the best I've managed to get so far is GCC 2.7.2.3.

The overall ABI between ASV and AMIX seems to be (mostly) the same, like I've not pinned down why Mosaic 2.7 compiled for ASV won't give me more than a splash screen, but the Motif Window Manager does work.

Noth · 08 January 2020, 23:44

Congratulations on getting all that together! And in a sysvr4 pkg as well! My X11 setup appears to be b0rked at the moment, time to reinstall and give this a go. At least we get to use it in 8bit colour, unlike on the Atari TT!

I wish you the best of luck in getting Xmosaic working, it would open up so many possibilities for us.

19 July 2016, 21:42	#1
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	Atari SysVR4 has Motif... So, since someone has uploaded a disk image of ASV, let's try to extract it from there. Problem: no Atari emulator that I know of can run it, because it requires perfect Atari TT emulation (MMU+FPU+SCSI and more...). I tried mounting it in AMIX, no dice, even adding a rdb to the image. Losetup in Linux didn't work either, either I'm getting the partition limits wrong or the UFS they use is something not quite old/44bsd. Your efforts are welcome! We could get their Mosaic port with that too, I'm fairly certain it'll run in AMIX since after all it's SVR4 all the way ...

15 March 2017, 19:37	#7
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	OK I finally got round to looking at all this again... And unfortunately the asv-mark-fixed.dsk I have doesn't have libXm.so ! Plus a few others like libMrm.so . Does anyone have these libraries? It does appear that Atari's SysVR4 binaries work in AMIX, sc for ex loads. I think we can get a mwm / wish desktop this way. If I can get all the files together in the right places, I'll create a big amix pkg and upload it. Also, the atariunix.com website seems to be down so no access to all that stuff they had over there... I'll try and contact Tenox to see if he has anything stashed away. Last edited by Noth; 17 March 2017 at 02:03.

20 December 2019, 22:55	#10
mparson Registered User Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: United States Posts: 3	Resurrecting an old thread, but... I got Motif & mwm from ASV working on Amix! It's Motif 1.1.1 and it seems to require the X11 libs from ASV, so, you need to set an appropriate LD_LIBRARY_PATH before executing mwm. It can be downloaded from here: http://www.bl.org/~mparson/amix/atari-motif.pkg.gz (there are some other pkgs I've built in that same directory, many of which are also now mirrored on amigaunix.com's download section) gunzip it, then install with pkgadd -d `pwd`/atari-motif.pkg Details on what I did to get it going are in /usr/atariX/README.amix Now that we have Motif, I'm working on compiling NCSA Mosaic with it. The docs seem to indicate that it should work with Motif 1.1, and I've had to #ifdef around a few things, but now it's failing at the final link stage. Last edited by mparson; 21 December 2019 at 04:33. Reason: provided link to the motif pkg.

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20 July 2016, 15:28	#2
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	Where can the disk image be downloaded from?

20 July 2016, 15:50	#3
emufan Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: #DrainTheSwamp Posts: 4,545	Atari System V UNIX - Unofficial Website

25 July 2016, 17:50	#4
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	Anyone had any luck with this?

26 July 2016, 18:30	#5
Amiga_CDTV Mind Walker Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 165	We must be getting desperate to resort to Atari Unix I found this old thread and was able to mount the asv-mark-fixed images root in Ubuntu!

26 July 2016, 20:35	#6
mark_k Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Posts: 3,333	I could mount (one of) the asv-richard image (asv_boot.img) partitions like this: mount -o ro,loop,offset=149504000,sizelimit=191054848 -t ufs asv_boot.img /media/test The "file" command gives this info about that partition: Unix Fast File system [v1] (big-endian), last mounted on /home, last written at Sat Jun 8 04:06:41 1991, clean flag 0, number of blocks 186577, number of data blocks 180288, number of cylinder groups 56, block size 8192, fragment size 1024, minimum percentage of free blocks 10, rotational delay 2ms, disk rotational speed 60rps, TIME optimization You can extract/copy the X11/Motif-related files from that partition (look in rootshadow/bin/X11). Maybe someone could try mounting the other partitions and trying to run some of the command-line (non-X) binaries on AMIX?

16 March 2017, 17:09	#8
Amiga_CDTV Mind Walker Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 165	atariunix.com seems to be up again now (at least works for me). Can't add anything that would help, but thanks for trying and it sounds pretty cool if we could squeeze something usable from a competing product

17 March 2017, 02:07	#9
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	Actually archive.org's mirror from last year yielded valid files... some of it good, some not so good. I'm trawling through comp.unix.amiga to see how far some people got with certain packages, especially binutils. I found this bsd43lib that provides some probably useful things.. but needs an assembler. I did get elm to compile and work, so that's one console mail program. Also a tip: export TERM=xterm when telnetting in and screen works much better. And in screen, editing with vi displays normally, not like from direct telnet.

21 December 2019, 05:50	#11
mparson Registered User Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: United States Posts: 3	I found some Mosaic builds on atariunix.com, so, I thought I'd try those. Looks like it's the source tree with the compiled bits in it, so, I might have a way to see if I can make it compile on Amix too. I tried to run it and found that I missed a library, libXnsl.{a,so}. I've re-packaged it and will be uploading a new copy shortly, if you've already grabbed a copy, then you'll want to pkgrm if if you've installed it, and grab the newer one. With the missing library in place, I now get the Mosaic splash screen, but haven't seen the actual browser yet. Will keep trying.

22 December 2019, 14:37	#12
Leo24 Registered User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Sao Paulo Posts: 17	Cool, I always wondered about abi compatibility between Amix and ASV, as during that time SVR4 m68k abi went through some changes. (AT&T compiler vs. gcc; pointer return value in d0 instead of a0, etc.). I also tinker with Amix from time to time, but I get always frustrated really fast, since it's a major pita to compile anything more modern for the system. Having now Motiv running on Amiga, try now to compile CDE with all its tools to Amix and you will become my personal hero if you're successful. :-)

22 December 2019, 16:20	#13
mparson Registered User Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: United States Posts: 3	Unfortunately, the Motif bits from ASV are version 1.1.1 and I'm pretty sure even early releases of CDE were based on Motif 2.x, not that we have access to the source code for ancient^W"classic CDE releases. Current CDE would require OpenMotif. I suppose I could give that a shot, but I'm betting it's going to want a modern compiler, and the best I've managed to get so far is GCC 2.7.2.3. The overall ABI between ASV and AMIX seems to be (mostly) the same, like I've not pinned down why Mosaic 2.7 compiled for ASV won't give me more than a splash screen, but the Motif Window Manager does work.

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08 January 2020, 23:44	#14
Noth Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Lausanne, Switzerland Posts: 184	Congratulations on getting all that together! And in a sysvr4 pkg as well! My X11 setup appears to be b0rked at the moment, time to reinstall and give this a go. At least we get to use it in 8bit colour, unlike on the Atari TT! I wish you the best of luck in getting Xmosaic working, it would open up so many possibilities for us.