Portaudio support (was: WinUAE support for ASIO drivers)

Amiga1992 · 11 February 2009, 18:49

Hey Toni!

We were talking with a musician friend about how the audio lag would make a lot of trouble on his working... He is trying to record some old tracks of him, which use OctaMED and a MIDI link to a Roland MC-303 groovebox. He says MIDI works better than on the PC host software! xD

However, the Amiga audio lags and he can't record his tunes properly.

I was thinking that perhaps one could use an ASIO low latency audio driver with WinUAE? I also have a professional audio interface and ASIO drivers put the latency down really, really low. It's almost useless with DirectX but ASIO is almost real time performance!

What do you think?

AmigaFriend · 11 February 2009, 18:58

It's a pity that OctaMED doesn't use AHI audio, so we could use the low latency AHI WinUAE driver...

as an alternative.

But it's a nice ideia Akira. ASIO sounds good to me!

Amiga1992 · 11 February 2009, 19:38

Well, there's that new software, what was the name? Digibooster Pro? Maybe if it imports MEDs accurately my friend can do what he wants.

Toni Wilen · 11 February 2009, 19:40

I remember not finding any API documentation for ASIO or something.

btw, current WinUAE AHI is far from high quality (of course better than Paula). It mixes all channels to 2 channel output in software. (I still plan to create better that uses native sound card hardware mixing but there are some issues to solve..)

Amiga1992 · 11 February 2009, 22:20

The AHI driver is amazing but old trackers (and games!) don't support AHI...
I'll try to find some documentation on how to use ASIO drivers in your soft... There has to be some data somewhere... for example, I can ask the writer of littlegptracker, he implemented ASIO support on his free software and he's a good friend.

AmigaFriend · 11 February 2009, 22:36

I've got a PDF "ASIO SDK 2.0." is this you're looking Toni? It's from a Cubase CD I have.

amiga · 12 February 2009, 10:06

@Akira:

Tell your friend to lower "Sound buffer size" in "Sound" panel of Winuae settings.
On today's PCs there's no need to keep a buffer so high with the consequence of an audio lag.

And for MIDI, set the priority to "below normal" or "low" in winuae settings.

Toni Wilen · 12 February 2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpect

I've got a PDF "ASIO SDK 2.0." is this you're looking Toni? It's from a Cubase CD I have.

Possibly, as long as it is new enough

Quote:

Tell your friend to lower "Sound buffer size" in "Sound" panel of Winuae settings.
On today's PCs there's no need to keep a buffer so high with the consequence of an audio lag.

Usually there is always at least 10ms latency caused by Windows sound system/card drivers etc when playing stream that is not (can't be) prebuffered.

AmigaBoy · 12 February 2009, 11:23

The latest version of the SDK is 2.2 and is available directly from Steinberg at http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/...developer.html

Toni Wilen · 12 February 2009, 11:26

Ah, that was the problem, I refuse to register just to get some SDK..

AmigaBoy · 12 February 2009, 11:29

The second login worked for me
http://www.bugmenot.com/view/steinberg.net

Turn on Javascript if you have it disabled in order to see the logins

Amiga1992 · 12 February 2009, 15:05

I can register for you if you want! :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by amiga

Tell your friend to lower "Sound buffer size" in "Sound" panel of Winuae settings.
On today's PCs there's no need to keep a buffer so high with the consequence of an audio lag.

He already did and noticed a difference between his audio and the groovebox. MIDI is running fine, he can see video alright and MIDI response is great but audio always lags behind. I can understand, these MIDI issues are very, very annoying and precise to very few ms.

He's got an Intel i7, by the way :P

On my lowly Asus eeePC, with a -shit- Behringer USB audio card, I get as low as 5 or 4ms latency using ASIO drivers on Ableton Live, compared to more than 50ms using DirectX.

Amiga1992 · 12 February 2009, 15:12

I just uploaded the SDK to the Zone!

ceztko · 12 February 2009, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

What do you think?

As far as I know, Steinberg ASIO headers have a GPL incompatible license. Audacity, for example, provide ASIO support but not in the public build (you have to compile your own build with ASIO enabled).

ceztko · 12 February 2009, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

I just uploaded the SDK to the Zone!

This MAY be not allowed... But it's not my prb, figure yourself.

Amiga1992 · 12 February 2009, 20:21

Well fuck me if it is illegal, I don't care about Steinberg, but if it brings troubles, well .... remove it xD

Gratzie for your insight!

ancalimon · 12 February 2009, 22:11

http://www.asio4all.com/

This is the perfect asio driver that should work with any sound card.

Using this with Vista and and onboard sound I don't get any latency at all.

Sune Salminen · 12 February 2009, 22:59

Yes it is, but the point is that you can't use them with WinUAE since it has no ASIO support in the first place.

The drivers don't do anything by themselves.

Toni Wilen · 13 February 2009, 09:20

License is an issue. It seems you can't distribute binaries that uses ASIO without signing license agreement with Steinberg.. (which is incompatible with GPL)

"Have to build it yourself" solution seems to be the only current legal solution.

Toni Wilen · 15 February 2009, 14:15

ASIO "API" looks weird, some annoying COM stuff that requires C++ (without rewriting the SDK, which probably isn't legal either..)

Perhaps I'll just support WaveRT, Vista/Windows 7 only ASIO-like low latency sound API. You can hate me by "supporting" Vista (but Windows 7 will be out this year and it is MUCH better) if you want but this sidesteps stupid license & SDK issues..

11 February 2009, 18:49	#1
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,577	Portaudio support (was: WinUAE support for ASIO drivers) Hey Toni! We were talking with a musician friend about how the audio lag would make a lot of trouble on his working... He is trying to record some old tracks of him, which use OctaMED and a MIDI link to a Roland MC-303 groovebox. He says MIDI works better than on the PC host software! xD However, the Amiga audio lags and he can't record his tunes properly. I was thinking that perhaps one could use an ASIO low latency audio driver with WinUAE? I also have a professional audio interface and ASIO drivers put the latency down really, really low. It's almost useless with DirectX but ASIO is almost real time performance! What do you think?

12 February 2009, 22:59	#18
Sune Salminen Dinamáquina Join Date: May 2002 Location: BH/Brasil Age: 49 Posts: 370	Yes it is, but the point is that you can't use them with WinUAE since it has no ASIO support in the first place. The drivers don't do anything by themselves. Last edited by Sune Salminen; 12 February 2009 at 23:43.

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11 February 2009, 18:58	#2
AmigaFriend Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CLI Posts: 1,462	It's a pity that OctaMED doesn't use AHI audio, so we could use the low latency AHI WinUAE driver... as an alternative. But it's a nice ideia Akira. ASIO sounds good to me!

11 February 2009, 19:38	#3
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,577	Well, there's that new software, what was the name? Digibooster Pro? Maybe if it imports MEDs accurately my friend can do what he wants.

11 February 2009, 19:40	#4
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 48 Posts: 26,091	I remember not finding any API documentation for ASIO or something. btw, current WinUAE AHI is far from high quality (of course better than Paula). It mixes all channels to 2 channel output in software. (I still plan to create better that uses native sound card hardware mixing but there are some issues to solve..)

11 February 2009, 22:20	#5
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,577	The AHI driver is amazing but old trackers (and games!) don't support AHI... I'll try to find some documentation on how to use ASIO drivers in your soft... There has to be some data somewhere... for example, I can ask the writer of littlegptracker, he implemented ASIO support on his free software and he's a good friend.

11 February 2009, 22:36	#6
AmigaFriend Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CLI Posts: 1,462	I've got a PDF "ASIO SDK 2.0." is this you're looking Toni? It's from a Cubase CD I have.

12 February 2009, 10:06	#7
amiga Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Amiga_land Posts: 443	@Akira: Tell your friend to lower "Sound buffer size" in "Sound" panel of Winuae settings. On today's PCs there's no need to keep a buffer so high with the consequence of an audio lag. And for MIDI, set the priority to "below normal" or "low" in winuae settings.

12 February 2009, 11:23	#9
AmigaBoy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 19 Jump Street Posts: 238	The latest version of the SDK is 2.2 and is available directly from Steinberg at http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/...developer.html

12 February 2009, 11:26	#10
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 48 Posts: 26,091	Ah, that was the problem, I refuse to register just to get some SDK..

12 February 2009, 11:29	#11
AmigaBoy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 19 Jump Street Posts: 238	The second login worked for me http://www.bugmenot.com/view/steinberg.net Turn on Javascript if you have it disabled in order to see the logins

12 February 2009, 15:12	#13
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,577	I just uploaded the SDK to the Zone!

12 February 2009, 20:21	#16
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,577	Well fuck me if it is illegal, I don't care about Steinberg, but if it brings troubles, well .... remove it xD Gratzie for your insight!

12 February 2009, 22:11	#17
ancalimon Supernormal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey Age: 42 Posts: 1,367	http://www.asio4all.com/ This is the perfect asio driver that should work with any sound card. Using this with Vista and and onboard sound I don't get any latency at all.

13 February 2009, 09:20	#19
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 48 Posts: 26,091	License is an issue. It seems you can't distribute binaries that uses ASIO without signing license agreement with Steinberg.. (which is incompatible with GPL) "Have to build it yourself" solution seems to be the only current legal solution.

15 February 2009, 14:15	#20
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 48 Posts: 26,091	ASIO "API" looks weird, some annoying COM stuff that requires C++ (without rewriting the SDK, which probably isn't legal either..) Perhaps I'll just support WaveRT, Vista/Windows 7 only ASIO-like low latency sound API. You can hate me by "supporting" Vista (but Windows 7 will be out this year and it is MUCH better) if you want but this sidesteps stupid license & SDK issues..

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