Kung Fu Master Port

[chadderack]

Probably not the best place to say it, but I've just followed Graeme's video on setting up a development toolchain for the Amiga... and it works very well.

I actually set up A500 instead of the A1200 from the video.

Back to the Kung Fu Remaster... this is some of the best entertainment I've had in a few years. Thanks for doin that and for working on this game whilst showing us how it's done

[Konrad]

I never was a big fan of kung fu master. I rather like its successor Vigilante.
This port / enhanced version looks great though. Very good job on game and graphics. Thanks for sharing the process.

The enemies flying off the screen is a stylistic choice. And I find it very fitting. Only alternative would be if corpses would stay on the ground. But as enemies are infinite them piling up would look very strange.

[malko]

Originally Posted by Konrad

[...] The enemies flying off the screen is a stylistic choice. And I find it very fitting. Only alternative would be if corpses would stay on the ground. But as enemies are infinite them piling up would look very strange.

On many arcade games, enemies simply fall on the ground and disappear after a few seconds.
But even if it may seems strange on many places, this "flying of the screen" is part of the DNA of Kung Fu Master.


Maybe you can try to add a first plan layer Graeme? On the arcade level (and other if objects are in first plan), you can try to make the enemies fly in front of the arcade machines that we see from the back that are in the first plan. It will be less 'strange'

[empardopo]

Originally Posted by empardopo

Using keyboard, what's the key to use punch?
Thanks in advance

OK Thanks! I had problems with my "joystick" and fs-uae! I tested it with winUAE and OK!!


I have to say KungFu Master is my big big favourite game (in MARP I have the first/high score in Spartan X (japanese version of KungFu Master)) but this "kungfu remaster" has surprised me pleasantly!



I suppose we are still in an "Alpha" version but the movements are very good. I love this Kungfu remaster!!!



Waiting for the next beta to see and try the advances and improvements.



Thanks very much!

[malko]

Originally Posted by malko

[...] Maybe you can try to add a first plan layer Graeme? On the arcade level (and other if objects are in first plan), you can try to make the enemies fly in front of the arcade machines that we see from the back that are in the first plan. It will be less 'strange'

With a little slow motion during the 'fly off', here is on the left side what I meant (right side, the original fly off):

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by malko

With a little slow motion during the 'fly off', here is on the left side what I meant (right side, the original fly off):

Yeah thanks, I did understand what you were saying.

There's a few ways I could do it, but they are tricky to do.

The obvious way is to use hardware sprites for the front plane cabinets... I could then scroll them at a faster speed too and probably re-use elements of it in other levels. The issue though is the way (surprise surprise) the stupid way Amiga hardware sprites work and their palettes.

At the moment I'm concentrating on getting the enemies into the game, when I get to the optimising phase I'll start looking at tweaks like this.

Thanks,
Graeme

[empardopo]

I think the best option is to leave it as similar to the original arcade game (it is my humble opinion).

Greetings.

[Mixel]

I actually think "falling down but behind the foreground arcade machines" looks way weirder than popping off the screen.. As it's like, a cross between an abstract interaction and a realistic one.

They look like they're falling through the floor when they go between the foreground and the background layers, and it breaks perspective. When they just fall off the screen that's a totally different style of visual.

Neither look bad though, just kinda weird seeing them be engulfed by the environment.

[malko]

Originally Posted by Mixel

I actually think "falling down but behind the foreground arcade machines" looks way weirder than popping off the screen.. As it's like, a cross between an abstract interaction and a realistic one.

They look like they're falling through the floor when they go between the foreground and the background layers, and it breaks perspective. When they just fall off the screen that's a totally different style of visual.

Neither look bad though, just kinda weird seeing them be engulfed by the environment.

Come'on, it's not a "DC Comics" nor a "Marvel" movie . Given the weight of an adult opponent, thinking that a kick or a punch can make him fly over an arcade cabinet look really strange. Anyway, Graeme will choose the best option in his "design" point of view

[Mixel]

It's not flying over the arcade cabinet from my perspective, hehe. You're thinking about it like it's a 3D stage when it isn't. If you treat it like it's supposed to be "real" perspective, the falling through the floor makes no sense regardless of what happens.

It's falling out *of the screen* as is really common on old games. At the moment of death the characters stop existing in the physical space of the environment, they're falling towards us, outside of the game's environment, not toward the in game camera.

Like mario or sonic dying.. They're not "falling through the floor", they're falling out of the game.

ed: many 2d games work more like a diorama than a movie, and by that logic, going through the floor of the stage breaks perspective. The falling isn't really compatible with pretending it's a 3D space. Even if it had parallax foreground details IMO it'd look more consistent if the guys fell over, rather than under it. The fall speed suggests freefall downwards, and through the *floor* that seems very strange. Off the *screen*, it looks natural.

[malko]

Here is how they managed the front layer in the second level of Vigilante.
As you can see no enemies are "flying" over the tires

[Mixel]

Firstly, that's a way more isometric view with a lot more visible space left and right of the character's perspective, changing the effect significantly. I'd still say it isn't an improvement. Why is he kicking everyone really hard to one side? Why are they falling "down" .. sideways? This is a KFM remake, where the stage is way more 2D, not a vigilante remake. (both approaches look fine lol, it's clearly a matter of opinion)

POV: You are a cleaner in the arcade in your "more realistic" version of KFM.

[Bren McGuire]

YES this is exactly what I meant with my comment, the blokes flying on top of the arcade machines look really really weird.

either change the way they fly off, make them fall behind the arcades, or remove the arcades altogether. this seems the easier option, to never have anything on the front plane.

as for the original game: I always thought they fell down into a pit and that the kung fu master was walking on a narrow surface with a pit on one side. so he can't escape! Made total sense to me. But these arcade machines have changed everything.

one more sugegstion: it's much harder to get rid of baddies that grabbed you with a joypad, because there's a lot of accidental input up/down in trying to do left/right. i would change this to allow you to input any movement, so waggling the joystick in any direction would get you rid of the baddies. L+R only works better with an arcade joystick.

Originally Posted by malko

Here is how they managed the front layer in the second level of Vigilante.
As you can see no enemies are "flying" over the tires

[malko]

Originally Posted by Mixel

[...] it's clearly a matter of opinion [...]

Only point I agree here
Personally when I look at the original KFM, I see as "normal" the way the enemies go out the action as I see the bottom border as a "hole". On 1st level, it's like the big step of the house (basement beneath). On the following levels you clearly see the roof. Thus the beaten enemies goes out of the action by falling.
When there is no "hole" they simply fall of the camera sight. But not by going over any object that can be present.
Here I then second Ben's vision of the game.

[...] POV: You are a cleaner in the arcade in your "more realistic" version of KFM.
Attachment 73321

I don't feel concerned but I like the sketch you did

[mcgeezer]

On the subject of pickups, how do you think these should work?

Take a little look at the video to see what we have, you can directly influence how I build this into the game.

Should the pickups time out? If so should the flash become faster?
Should I make float them?

The idea is that at certain times or events the player will get a bonus ball bounce along which if they hit correctly will give them a pickup.

Pickups are, knife, nunchucks, points, extra live, increase health etc...

[ Show youtube player ]

Edit: I also just done a quick video showing all of the bosses:

[ Show youtube player ]

Geezer

[dreamkatcha]

Allow me to solve the throwing-goons-off-the-screen conundrum. Thomas is walking across the balcony encompassing each floor of the five-storey pagoda that would have featured in Bruce Lee's version of Game of Death. There's no need to remove a wall that would otherwise block the player's view because there was no wall there to begin with. This explains why you can see the edge of the roof above on all five stages, the edge of the one below on stages 2 to 5 and the foundations/stilts on stage 1. When you defeat an enemy and chuck them towards the player, it makes perfect sense that they'd fly across the roof (on stages 2-5) and then fall to their doom.

You'll notice that none of the 'rooms' in Kung Fu Master have any depth to them; they're thin strips. A design choice that would also support the notion that we're actually traipsing across external balconies.



Some of these pagodas comprise more clearly defined balconies enclosed by railings, others were built before wimpy health and safety regulations ruined everyone's fun.

Ta-da!

[Mixel]

That mostly works for the original, but not these new levels where you’re walking down the street etc.

Powerups, I think they should flash and time out.. But quite quickly, as there’s no way you can really make one fall out without being next to it and if you don’t want to collect it it might be difficult to jump over in the heat of battle. (Idk why you wouldn’t want one, maybe you already picked up a weapon you like) also would add a funny frustrating element if someone has grabbed you and you can’t make it to the pickup in time.

[skyzoo73]

It would be nice to have a level in the middle of the game, after passing through the streets, the arcade, to have the character arrive outside the pagoda in a setting similar to the one in the photo above. Keeping the last few levels similar to the original inside the pagoda.

[10shu]

Originally Posted by skyzoo73

It would be nice to have a level in the middle of the game, after passing through the streets, the arcade, to have the character arrive outside the pagoda in a setting similar to the one in the photo above. Keeping the last few levels similar to the original inside the pagoda.

There is one... its level 5

[10shu]

Originally Posted by dreamkatcha

Allow me to solve the throwing-goons-off-the-screen conundrum. Thomas is walking across the balcony encompassing each floor of the five-storey pagoda that would have featured in Bruce Lee's version of Game of Death. There's no need to remove a wall that would otherwise block the player's view because there was no wall there to begin with. This explains why you can see the edge of the roof above on all five stages, the edge of the one below on stages 2 to 5 and the foundations/stilts on stage 1. When you defeat an enemy and chuck them towards the player, it makes perfect sense that they'd fly across the roof (on stages 2-5) and then fall to their doom.

You'll notice that none of the 'rooms' in Kung Fu Master have any depth to them; they're thin strips. A design choice that would also support the notion that we're actually traipsing across external balconies.



Some of these pagodas comprise more clearly defined balconies enclosed by railings, others were built before wimpy health and safety regulations ruined everyone's fun.

Ta-da!

I think people focus too much on a small detail.
Its a silly arcade game ,The npc fall because it s funny to See them fall. The standard options was to have them fall to the ground and blink out to make them disappear. Not so fun...
Originally i wanted them to explode like on the master system game blackbelt but it wasn’t easly possible on the amiga...