Cloanto Roms Vs?

blade002 · 03 July 2019, 07:04

I recently had delivered some Cloanto 3.1 physical Roms for my A1200 and was just wondering if their Roms were the best option? I have heard bad things about Cloanto over the years so was just wondering?

Also one other thing, on my original A1200 (I have 2 of them) with 3.1 Roms when I installed ClassicWB everything ran fine, no requests came up when WHDLoad games..etc. on the other machine though with 3.0 Roms it asks me constantly for very many games but not all for kickstart files.

Why is it that I never had this problem till now when I essentially followed the same process in past? the only difference being my other machine has 3.1 Roms (the storage medium is different too, original machine a traditional HD and an CF Card for the machine having the issue)

the usual error for many OCS/ECS and AGA games is devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500

I know I would have to replace the files but from where?

Jope · 03 July 2019, 07:18

3.1 ROMs are 3.1 ROMs. If the checksum matches, then in terms of functionality it doesn't matter who burned them for you and what sticker was stuck on the case.

The Cloanto 3.x ROMs have had some reports about incompatibilities, but that is a different thing.

The kickstart the games are complaining about is a normal A500/2000 kickstart 1.3 image. You can get this legally from Cloanto and illegally pretty trivially from the internet.

Hewitson · 03 July 2019, 07:22

Yep. Very freely available on the web. In addition to the rom file you'll also need the corresponding RTB file. This can be found in the skick archive on aminet.

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/skick346

You certainly wouldn't be getting this error for AGA games though.

blade002 · 03 July 2019, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

3.1 ROMs are 3.1 ROMs. If the checksum matches, then in terms of functionality it doesn't matter who burned them for you and what sticker was stuck on the case.

The Cloanto 3.x ROMs have had some reports about incompatibilities, but that is a different thing.

The kickstart the games are complaining about is a normal A500/2000 kickstart 1.3 image. You can get this legally from Cloanto and illegally pretty trivially from the internet.

Thanks for the Rom info Jope

As for the Kickstart images, I have already tried the Cloanto ones, still the same problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Yep. Very freely available on the web. In addition to the rom file you'll also need the corresponding RTB file. This can be found in the skick archive on aminet.

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/skick346

You certainly wouldn't be getting this error for AGA games though.

Just tried those files mate, still the same problem, and yep it does also happen for AGA games... Banshee for example is one but it doesn't happen with all AGA games nor all OCS/ECS ones.

Jope · 03 July 2019, 08:29

Which cloanto ones? Did you just take them out of Amiga Forever? You must transrom them from inside the emulation to decrypt them first.

Once you have it, rename your 1.3 image as kick34005.A500, take kick34005.A500.PAT and kick34005.A500.RTB from the skick package and put all three files into devs:kickstarts on your system.

blade002 · 03 July 2019, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Which cloanto ones? Did you just take them out of Amiga Forever? You must transrom them from inside the emulation to decrypt them first.

Once you have it, rename your 1.3 image as kick34005.A500, take kick34005.A500.PAT and kick34005.A500.RTB from the skick package and put all three files into devs:kickstarts on your system.

It's ok Jope, I did it a while ago but have forgotten exactly where I took them on the Cloanto side of things, I bought I few things off them in that regard.

The process of transrom I have not heard of nor consequently done, I do appreciate the info you've provided but I've spent way too much time trying to sort this out and I've not the time anymore to stuff about too much, so I'll just reattach the other A1200 and plug all the bits back in, rip the files off that one and transfer them to the one I'm using... It's the fastest way without too much hassle

Jope · 03 July 2019, 08:50

Yes. If you already have the files on the other machine, definitely just take them off that.

Antiriad_UK · 03 July 2019, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

Which cloanto ones? Did you just take them out of Amiga Forever? You must transrom them from inside the emulation to decrypt them first.

Once you have it, rename your 1.3 image as kick34005.A500, take kick34005.A500.PAT and kick34005.A500.RTB from the skick package and put all three files into devs:kickstarts on your system.

The latest Amiga Forever I bought recently doesn't seem to have encrypted ROMs anymore - there is no rom.key supplied and they work fine in WinUAE. I don't know if it was an intentional change

Jope · 03 July 2019, 10:32

Good to know. I have the latest one installed one one machine too, but it never occurred to me to check whether they are still encrypted. :-D

Turrican_3 · 04 July 2019, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiriad_UK

I don't know if it was an intentional change

Definitely intentional, from the Amiga Forever knowledge base:

Some original technical limitations, which were in part a legacy of a 1997 wish by some licensors that Amiga Forever not compete with the sale of "real" upgrade ROMs for Amiga computers, were later removed. These restrictions were implemented by using some "illegal opcodes" and a ROM encoding combined with a "rom.key" file, support for which was added to the UAE and Fellow emulation projects in 1997. Amiga Forever Plus Edition now includes the full set of original unencoded Amiga ROMs [...]

Turrican_3 · 11 July 2019, 15:26

Ok, I'm confused now.

I've just had a look at my Amiga Forever 8 (Digital) Kickstart archive, that I purchased last january.

Not only there is a rom.key file, but I can also see there's a header in each kickstart file, something that is definitely different from what I could see in old kickstart dumps I had made on original hardware. I definitely need to further investigate, I'm not sure those files can be burned "as is" on an EPROM for example.

E-Penguin · 11 July 2019, 17:14

You can always boot from the encrypted ones in winuae and "grab" them from there.

Turrican_3 · 11 July 2019, 18:37

Sure, I'm just confused because this seems to be the opposite of my own quote, and the FAQ states it's from 2017 so it can't be that my Amiga Forever is an outdated version either.

That is, unless I'm missing something too obvious...

Antiriad_UK · 12 July 2019, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turrican_3

Ok, I'm confused now.

I've just had a look at my Amiga Forever 8 (Digital) Kickstart archive, that I purchased last january.

Not only there is a rom.key file, but I can also see there's a header in each kickstart file, something that is definitely different from what I could see in old kickstart dumps I had made on original hardware. I definitely need to further investigate, I'm not sure those files can be burned "as is" on an EPROM for example.

Strange. Mine is Amiga forever 8 plus looks to have been bought in March so I guess they updated it in the year since you bought. Roms were installed in public shared documents.

Turrican_3 · 12 July 2019, 09:11

Sorry (not a native speaker), with "last January" I meant January 2019, so it's been just a few months.

Just to be clear, every ROM I checked starts with "AMIROMTYPE1/" and there's garbled text everywhere, while on my real Amiga dumped ROMs I can clearly see right at the start (to be precise, after a few non-readable characters actually) the copyright message "AMIGA ROM Operating System" etc. etc.

I believe it's a bit weird anyway since, as I stated before, the FAQ I quoted predates my purchase by more than 12 months!?

Antiriad_UK · 12 July 2019, 10:31

Maybe it's a difference between Amiga Forever and Amiga Forever Plus?

I've got 38 rom files in my public documents shared folder. If I open the os1.3 rom in a text editor it's got a few hex chars followed by:

Code:

exec 34.2 (28 Oct 1987)
AMIGA ROM Operating System and Libraries
Copyright (C) 1985, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

The Amiga Forever Plus download is 622MB. I upgraded from a previous version 2013 and that had the encrypted ROMs in it.

Edit: Ah yes, in your FAQ entry above it does say "Amiga Forever Plus". Mystery solved, but very lame it's not all editions!

Turrican_3 · 12 July 2019, 10:40

That's exactly how I expected it to be!

I wonder if it would make a difference if I tried to re-download it.
I guess that depends on whether the download is "freezed" at time of purchase or not... probably the former, but I will check anyway.

For the record, I downloaded the ISO version, not the Windows installer.

Turrican_3 · 12 July 2019, 10:44

Wait, look what I've found in the ISO URL link:

2017-07-29

That's actually earlier than the FAQ, maybe this explains everything?

03 July 2019, 07:04	#1
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	Cloanto Roms Vs? I recently had delivered some Cloanto 3.1 physical Roms for my A1200 and was just wondering if their Roms were the best option? I have heard bad things about Cloanto over the years so was just wondering? Also one other thing, on my original A1200 (I have 2 of them) with 3.1 Roms when I installed ClassicWB everything ran fine, no requests came up when WHDLoad games..etc. on the other machine though with 3.0 Roms it asks me constantly for very many games but not all for kickstart files. Why is it that I never had this problem till now when I essentially followed the same process in past? the only difference being my other machine has 3.1 Roms (the storage medium is different too, original machine a traditional HD and an CF Card for the machine having the issue) the usual error for many OCS/ECS and AGA games is devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500 I know I would have to replace the files but from where?

12 July 2019, 10:31	#16
Antiriad_UK OCS forever! Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 418	Maybe it's a difference between Amiga Forever and Amiga Forever Plus? I've got 38 rom files in my public documents shared folder. If I open the os1.3 rom in a text editor it's got a few hex chars followed by: Code: exec 34.2 (28 Oct 1987) AMIGA ROM Operating System and Libraries Copyright (C) 1985, Commodore-Amiga, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The Amiga Forever Plus download is 622MB. I upgraded from a previous version 2013 and that had the encrypted ROMs in it. Edit: Ah yes, in your FAQ entry above it does say "Amiga Forever Plus". Mystery solved, but very lame it's not all editions!

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03 July 2019, 07:18	#2
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,920	3.1 ROMs are 3.1 ROMs. If the checksum matches, then in terms of functionality it doesn't matter who burned them for you and what sticker was stuck on the case. The Cloanto 3.x ROMs have had some reports about incompatibilities, but that is a different thing. The kickstart the games are complaining about is a normal A500/2000 kickstart 1.3 image. You can get this legally from Cloanto and illegally pretty trivially from the internet.

03 July 2019, 07:22	#3
Hewitson Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 41 Posts: 3,773	Yep. Very freely available on the web. In addition to the rom file you'll also need the corresponding RTB file. This can be found in the skick archive on aminet. http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/skick346 You certainly wouldn't be getting this error for AGA games though.

03 July 2019, 08:29	#5
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,920	Which cloanto ones? Did you just take them out of Amiga Forever? You must transrom them from inside the emulation to decrypt them first. Once you have it, rename your 1.3 image as kick34005.A500, take kick34005.A500.PAT and kick34005.A500.RTB from the skick package and put all three files into devs:kickstarts on your system.

03 July 2019, 08:50	#7
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,920	Yes. If you already have the files on the other machine, definitely just take them off that.

03 July 2019, 10:32	#9
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,920	Good to know. I have the latest one installed one one machine too, but it never occurred to me to check whether they are still encrypted. :-D

11 July 2019, 15:26	#11
Turrican_3 C= and Amiga aficionado! Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Italy Posts: 327	Ok, I'm confused now. I've just had a look at my Amiga Forever 8 (Digital) Kickstart archive, that I purchased last january. Not only there is a rom.key file, but I can also see there's a header in each kickstart file, something that is definitely different from what I could see in old kickstart dumps I had made on original hardware. I definitely need to further investigate, I'm not sure those files can be burned "as is" on an EPROM for example.

11 July 2019, 17:14	#12
E-Penguin Banana Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Darmstadt Posts: 1,217	You can always boot from the encrypted ones in winuae and "grab" them from there.

11 July 2019, 18:37	#13
Turrican_3 C= and Amiga aficionado! Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Italy Posts: 327	Sure, I'm just confused because this seems to be the opposite of my own quote, and the FAQ states it's from 2017 so it can't be that my Amiga Forever is an outdated version either. That is, unless I'm missing something too obvious...

12 July 2019, 09:11	#15
Turrican_3 C= and Amiga aficionado! Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Italy Posts: 327	Sorry (not a native speaker), with "last January" I meant January 2019, so it's been just a few months. Just to be clear, every ROM I checked starts with "AMIROMTYPE1/" and there's garbled text everywhere, while on my real Amiga dumped ROMs I can clearly see right at the start (to be precise, after a few non-readable characters actually) the copyright message "AMIGA ROM Operating System" etc. etc. I believe it's a bit weird anyway since, as I stated before, the FAQ I quoted predates my purchase by more than 12 months!?

12 July 2019, 10:40	#17
Turrican_3 C= and Amiga aficionado! Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Italy Posts: 327	That's exactly how I expected it to be! I wonder if it would make a difference if I tried to re-download it. I guess that depends on whether the download is "freezed" at time of purchase or not... probably the former, but I will check anyway. For the record, I downloaded the ISO version, not the Windows installer.

12 July 2019, 10:44	#18
Turrican_3 C= and Amiga aficionado! Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Italy Posts: 327	Wait, look what I've found in the ISO URL link: 2017-07-29 That's actually earlier than the FAQ, maybe this explains everything?

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