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Old 11 March 2012, 15:06   #1
Asle
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Alien Legion

hi,

for the aforementioned game (http://hol.abime.net/3242), the real musician behind "North Star" is Tomas Dahlgren, then Titan/North Star, later known as Uncle Tom.
This zik comes from the North Star Megademo 2 .

Sylvain
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Old 11 March 2012, 18:07   #2
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Thanks for the information.

Do you know if that is also the case for System-4?:
http://hol.abime.net/3948

Looks like he is already listed correctly has Titan/North Star, so if need be it will be a quick fix.
http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?...&detail=artist


However, from what you say, I understand that the logic is: the music you can find in Alien Legion is the same that the one(s) you can find in the Megademo 2. Tomas Dahlgren composed the music for the Megademo 2, therefore he should be credited for the music for Alien Legion.

The questions I have to ask are:
Is every music in the megademo written by Dahlgren?
Is every music from Alien Legion in the megademo?

If you can answer yes to those two questions, then I guess things should be corrected.
However, if any of the question can be answered by no, meaning that there could be creations from other musicians from NorthStar (supposing there are some), I am not sure what will be the best course of action.

It could be possible to credit Dahlgren individually and have other musicians listed. However, if the game credits NorthStar as a collective of musicians, then the right thing would be to keep the collective credited as such.


Perhaps you have a source where it is mentioned that he is the one and only person to have made music in NorthStar or for the game? That would make things easier.
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Old 11 March 2012, 21:17   #3
Asle
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checking for for questions

OK, checked. Both games have only one music and both are made by Uncle Tom.
Alien Legion:
http://amp.dascene.net/modules/U/Unc...0be%20disco.gz
System-4:
http://amp.dascene.net/modules/U/Unc...py%20sprite.gz

And no, Tomas Dahlgren was not the only musician in the North Star Megademo 2. I mentioned that as a curiosity note. That's all.

Hope this clarifies it
Cheers,
Sylvain

Last edited by Asle; 11 March 2012 at 21:38.
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Old 12 March 2012, 12:20   #4
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Thanks for checking that out.
I'll think about the best way to take that into account.

I guess it will be to cross-reference the entries for NorthStar and Dahlgren and notes in each game entry.
This way it will leave the original credits as they appear in the game and still show the information about the actual author of the music.
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Old 14 March 2012, 11:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilalurl View Post
This way it will leave the original credits as they appear in the game and still show the information about the actual author of the music.
Hi,

I'm confused with that. See for example http://hol.abime.net/1926 (Silkworm). Authors are nowhere in the game. The closest is a member list of Random Access team, which are thus put as authors. Where's the "original credit", here ? Moreover, Barry Leitch is cited nowhere in the game.
My two cents, here. Why not put correct credits, like Silkworm (obtained from contacting the authors, for example), but display additional information like "credited as Imagitec Design Ltd", or something.

Cheers
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Old 14 March 2012, 13:25   #6
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Edit: skip the first part (down to the image). I misread a part of your post. Still leaving this in case anyone is interested.

For Silkworm, start a game, press ESC (you die), then leave the hi-score table for a few seconds. You will then see the credits:






I understand your point about music.
Imagetec is credited for music. Barry Leitch was the audio director of it and usually responsible for most productions:
http://www.barryleitch.com/cv.htm
Then there is also the credits from Exotica (probably taken from the module):
http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Silk_Worm

I am not the one who filled the entry for Silkworm and I would not have done it the way it is, but rather have credited Imagetec and the left the information given as a note.

This kind of case is quite complex an issue. I am more inclined to left credits untouched (first based on information from in-game credits, then manual, then external sources) and put notes for details/explanations. Other people do it a different way.
As long as all the information is there things are fine, since they can be re-arranged easily afterwads.

Obviously, the advantage of the way used for Silkworm is that you can get the list of all works by the author with one click.

I guess input from HoL members would be welcome.

Last edited by lilalurl; 14 March 2012 at 13:31.
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Old 14 March 2012, 14:46   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilalurl View Post
I understand your point about music.
Imagetec is credited for music. Barry Leitch was the audio director of it and usually responsible for most productions:
http://www.barryleitch.com/cv.htm
Then there is also the credits from Exotica (probably taken from the module):
http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Silk_Worm
You beat me to it here! We don't just rely on in-game screens and manuals for credits, but draw upon other resources if we need to (e.g. magazine previews/reviews in AMR, personal communications with devs/publishers, dev/publisher websites and CVs)

Quote:
I am not the one who filled the entry for Silkworm and I would not have done it the way it is, but rather have credited Imagetec and the left the information given as a note.

This kind of case is quite complex an issue. I am more inclined to left credits untouched (first based on information from in-game credits, then manual, then external sources) and put notes for details/explanations. Other people do it a different way.
As long as all the information is there things are fine, since they can be re-arranged easily afterwads.

Obviously, the advantage of the way used for Silkworm is that you can get the list of all works by the author with one click.

I guess input from HoL members would be welcome.
I don't think I've done much work (if any) on the Silkworm entry. What I can tell you, though, is that the HOL team generally prefers to fill in credits for coding, gfx etc. with the names of real people wherever possible, rather than use development team names (e.g. Imagetec) or handles (e.g. Fungus the Bogeyman) supplied in game credits. Sometimes we don't have a choice because we cannot find any reputable sources of info. to tell us otherwise.

The other thing to bear in mind is that there are game entries in HOL that haven't had anything done on them for a few years. There are some very good reasons for that often, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes the info. there is incomplete or inaccurate in such cases. Hope this has provided a few answers to the questions asked and given some insight into the method to our madness with game entries!
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Old 14 March 2012, 14:58   #8
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All right, thanks for your input here, it's more clear now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBong View Post
You beat me to it here! We don't just rely on in-game screens and manuals for credits, but draw upon other resources if we need to (e.g. magazine previews/reviews in AMR, personal communications with devs/publishers, dev/publisher websites and CVs)
Then, I tell you, author is Tomas Dahlgren. As to why "North Star" was put there is subject to interpretation. Maybe they asked to use those musics to some NS people, maybe they just ripped off the musics. In any case, there's no debate as to who is the author

Note that my input was to clarify and enhance HOL data quality. It's of course your call to manage it as you see fit .

Cheers
Sylvain
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Old 14 March 2012, 15:45   #9
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Ok. For me, the info. in the thread is enough to justify replacing NorthStar in the current entries where it is credited by Tomas Dahlgren and then putting as a note that he is credited in game as NorthStar.

Last edited by lilalurl; 14 March 2012 at 15:52.
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Old 14 March 2012, 15:57   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asle View Post
All right, thanks for your input here, it's more clear now.
Cool!

Quote:
Then, I tell you, author is Tomas Dahlgren. As to why "North Star" was put there is subject to interpretation. Maybe they asked to use those musics to some NS people, maybe they just ripped off the musics. In any case, there's no debate as to who is the author
North Star was inserted there because the music was credited that way on the in-game credits screen (see HERE). In the last few years the HOL team has begun to document the source of credits (e.g. in-game, game manual, email from the developer) for game entries, but this is for internal use only. So the info. you have provided for Alien Legion, for instance, will be documented internally for the game entry and will include a link to this thread. We'll also change the relevant game entries and credit the music to Tomas Dahlgren (Titan/North Star), and delete the North Star developer profile if he was responsible for all the music credited to them. Hope that clarifies things a little........

Quote:
Note that my input was to clarify and enhance HOL data quality. It's of course your call to manage it as you see fit .
We very much appreciate any good info. that you and others here on EAB and elsewhere can provide for HOL game entries, especially concerning credits that only list the development team name or handles. Keep the info. coming if you have anymore!

We've spent a lot of time in the last few years trying to find the real names of devs where the credits only list handles. On the other side of the coin, I also try to find the handles of Amiga coders that were previously part of the scene, and include them along with photos or details of scene interviews in their developer profiles. That's much harder often as real names behind the handles of ex-sceners that developed Amiga games were rarely known back in the day, never mind nowadays.
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