Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-II + Radeon 9200 + 256MB

cosmicfrog · 25 June 2010, 05:14

I`m thinking of getting this Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-II + Radeon 9200 + 256MB from Elbox

http://eu-shop.elbox.com/cgibin/shop...R&sid=6173e20b

but my experience with pci solutions for the Amiga is sadly lacking

so any thoughts, drawbacks or advice from my forum friends will be greatly appreciated

at the moment 269.95 Euros = 222.864647 British pounds and the thought of using some of the gfx card ram as fast ram sounds interesting but how good/fast is it?

do you know of any better pci solutions for an A4000D ??

questions, questions, questions almost as good as ribbits, ribbits and ribbits

CosmicF

25 June 2010, 08:20

I have a Mediator 4000Di and can recommend buying it if you are wanting to use more capable video cards (RAM and performance) than what the Zorro based cards provide. Otherwise, it doesn't give you many more card options over Zorro other than using an analog TV card (without something like a Picasso IV).

Here are some pros and cons:

Pros:

Fits into A4000 desktop case which makes things nice and neat inside.
Can use DVI output on Radeon 9200.
You can use other supported PCI cards such as Realtek based Ethernet cards and SoundBlaster 128 sound cards.
Can use Radeon RAM as Fast RAM.

Cons:

Radeon 9200 has no 3D support at this time.
Using Radeon RAM as Fast RAM is very slow in terms of access speed.
Uses Zorro III bus for connection to computer which limits transfers to about 7MB/sec.
Software can be a little tricky to set up the first time.
Mediator bridge card can get very hot if something like the Indivision AGA scandoubler is installed as the logic chips are pressed against the Indivision where the Lisa chip sits. I help alleviate this by lifting the bridge card up a bit with the help of a spacer and use a slot fan to help cool the area.

Other PCI solutions you could try is a Prometheus PCI board. Issues it has is lack of hardware support (company went out of business) and is really designed for tower cases but you can manage to squeeze the cards into a desktop case with some adaptors. Otherwise, the Prometheus is a good solid board.

alexh · 25 June 2010, 08:40

You'll need a scandoubler (Indivision AGA 4000) and some sort of monitor switcher (or an LCDTV which incorporates both) to get the most out of it.

cosmicfrog · 25 June 2010, 15:08

Thanks for the Info, given me something to ponder

fitzsteve · 25 June 2010, 15:24

How slow is this Radeon Ram? Slower than ZorRAM or the same?

What effect would this have on general Workbench usage?

Mr Frog has got me wanting one of these setups now lol

alexh · 25 June 2010, 17:07

While it is something to consider:

Michael Boehmer of E3B who created the ZorRAM said that he'd discovered a problem in the Buster 11 when using a Deneb (or any other Zorro III DMA master) and a ZorRAM at the same time. He was able to work around the problem in ZorRAM firmware.

It is very unlikely that the Mediator PCI 4000Di will have this work around and very unlikely it will ever get it. I'd be reluctant to use the GFX card RAM as system memory if you have a Zorro III DMA master (Deneb, FastLane, A4091 etc)

cosmicfrog · 27 June 2010, 12:27

thanks for asking that question fitzsteve, I wanted to but was unable to get on EAB till now, daughters you got to love em,

ok noob HardWare question how do I know/distinguish a Zorro III DMA master card ? your usb/scsi examples are helpful

alexh · 27 June 2010, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

ok noob HardWare question how do I know/distinguish a Zorro III DMA master card ? your usb/scsi examples are helpful

You just have to know them. There are only three I can remember off hand perhaps one more

Deneb
Fastlane Z3
A4091 / A4000T onboard SCSI

cosmicfrog · 27 June 2010, 12:54

ok thanks

FOL · 27 June 2010, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

While it is something to consider:

Michael Boehmer of E3B who created the ZorRAM said that he'd discovered a problem in the Buster 11 when using a Deneb (or any other Zorro III DMA master) and a ZorRAM at the same time. He was able to work around the problem in ZorRAM firmware.

It is very unlikely that the Mediator PCI 4000Di will have this work around and very unlikely it will ever get it. I'd be reluctant to use the GFX card RAM as system memory if you have a Zorro III DMA master (Deneb, FastLane, A4091 etc)

Just so you know, I have used a Zorram 128 and 256 with a Mediator PCI 4000Di without any issues.
These tests were done, without a Deneb installed.

alexh · 27 June 2010, 13:26

???? Your test is invalid.

(1) Without a DMA master present the buster bug doesn't occur!
(2) The ZorRAM is a ZIII slave with the workaround for this bug!

The problem Michael Boehmer discovered in the Buster is triggered by high usage of a Zorro III slave (i.e. possibly the Mediator's PCI bridge when using a gfx card's RAM as system memory) and a Zorro III DMA master (like the Deneb).

FOL · 27 June 2010, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

???? Your test is invalid.

(1) Without a DMA master present the buster bug doesn't occur!
(2) The ZorRAM is a ZIII slave with the workaround for this bug!

The problem Michael Boehmer discovered in the Buster is triggered by high usage of a Zorro III slave (i.e. possibly the Mediator's PCI bridge when using a gfx card's RAM as system memory) and a Zorro III DMA master (like the Deneb).

Ah, I was just saying they work together fine. I should'nt have quoted your post, as it obviously led to confusion.

cosmicfrog · 27 June 2010, 18:30

thanks for your input fol but was`t aking if zorram works but now the question seems to be which dma master cards have problems with the mediator gfx ram

so have you a usb soultion on your mediator and/or a scsi card ??

ajacocks · 28 June 2010, 04:50

So, I ordered this, when the deal became known. I got an order confirmation, but have yet to hear anything else. Has anyone else who ordered gotten product shipped, yet? 3+ weeks seems a long time to wait. I've emailed Elbox, but gotten no response.

aperez · 07 July 2010, 02:43

They are monumentally bad at timely responsiveness, in my experiences with them. This seems to be an unfortunate reality.

I have been contemplating ordering this bundle as well, and seeing other folks having this sort of experience with Elbox "customer support" is not exactly going to encourage others to order.

Elbox, care to reply?

ajacocks · 07 July 2010, 05:25

Well, I finally got a reply, and they shipped the product 3 weeks after I ordered. If the product is as described, it will be fine, but that is very slow service, for a business.

cosmicfrog · 07 July 2010, 11:11

plz let us know how you go on setting it up ajacocks, how easy it is, dose it give a big boost, etc

Pics would be nice too

any way have fun with it

FOL · 07 July 2010, 17:17

Just to add to this.

I have had a Deneb, Zorram and Mediator 4000Di all setup and working together. So you should'nt any problems using all 3 together (if you wanted to).
Also had a Radeon 9250 in there too.

cosmicfrog · 07 July 2010, 20:01

one day My A4000 may be tricked out like that Fol, one day .....

ajacocks · 08 July 2010, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOL

Just to add to this.

I have had a Deneb, Zorram and Mediator 4000Di all setup and working together. So you should'nt any problems using all 3 together (if you wanted to).
Also had a Radeon 9250 in there too.

Well, I already have to run my Deneb in Zorro II mode, to get it to work properly with my GVP T-Rex-II '060 board. So, 'no problems' is out the window.

I'll try again, when I get the Mediator, but I don't have a lot of hope. The only system that I have been able to get the Deneb working, in full Zorro III/DMA mode, was my A4000, when it had the A3640 v3.1 installed. It doesn't work in ZIII/DMA mode in my A3000/030/25, either.

25 June 2010, 05:14	#1
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-II + Radeon 9200 + 256MB I`m thinking of getting this Mediator PCI 4000Di MK-II + Radeon 9200 + 256MB from Elbox http://eu-shop.elbox.com/cgibin/shop...R&sid=6173e20b but my experience with pci solutions for the Amiga is sadly lacking so any thoughts, drawbacks or advice from my forum friends will be greatly appreciated at the moment 269.95 Euros = 222.864647 British pounds and the thought of using some of the gfx card ram as fast ram sounds interesting but how good/fast is it? do you know of any better pci solutions for an A4000D ?? questions, questions, questions almost as good as ribbits, ribbits and ribbits CosmicF

27 June 2010, 13:26	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,460	???? Your test is invalid. (1) Without a DMA master present the buster bug doesn't occur! (2) The ZorRAM is a ZIII slave with the workaround for this bug! The problem Michael Boehmer discovered in the Buster is triggered by high usage of a Zorro III slave (i.e. possibly the Mediator's PCI bridge when using a gfx card's RAM as system memory) and a Zorro III DMA master (like the Deneb). Last edited by alexh; 27 June 2010 at 13:36.

07 July 2010, 02:43	#15
aperez Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 94	They are monumentally bad at timely responsiveness, in my experiences with them. This seems to be an unfortunate reality. I have been contemplating ordering this bundle as well, and seeing other folks having this sort of experience with Elbox "customer support" is not exactly going to encourage others to order. Elbox, care to reply? Last edited by aperez; 07 July 2010 at 02:57.

07 July 2010, 17:17	#18
FOL PSPUAE DEV Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales / UK Age: 45 Posts: 6,045	Just to add to this. I have had a Deneb, Zorram and Mediator 4000Di all setup and working together. So you should'nt any problems using all 3 together (if you wanted to). Also had a Radeon 9250 in there too. Last edited by FOL; 07 July 2010 at 18:35.

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25 June 2010, 08:20	#2
colmiga Posts: n/a	I have a Mediator 4000Di and can recommend buying it if you are wanting to use more capable video cards (RAM and performance) than what the Zorro based cards provide. Otherwise, it doesn't give you many more card options over Zorro other than using an analog TV card (without something like a Picasso IV). Here are some pros and cons: Pros: Fits into A4000 desktop case which makes things nice and neat inside. Can use DVI output on Radeon 9200. You can use other supported PCI cards such as Realtek based Ethernet cards and SoundBlaster 128 sound cards. Can use Radeon RAM as Fast RAM. Cons: Radeon 9200 has no 3D support at this time. Using Radeon RAM as Fast RAM is very slow in terms of access speed. Uses Zorro III bus for connection to computer which limits transfers to about 7MB/sec. Software can be a little tricky to set up the first time. Mediator bridge card can get very hot if something like the Indivision AGA scandoubler is installed as the logic chips are pressed against the Indivision where the Lisa chip sits. I help alleviate this by lifting the bridge card up a bit with the help of a spacer and use a slot fan to help cool the area. Other PCI solutions you could try is a Prometheus PCI board. Issues it has is lack of hardware support (company went out of business) and is really designed for tower cases but you can manage to squeeze the cards into a desktop case with some adaptors. Otherwise, the Prometheus is a good solid board.

25 June 2010, 08:40	#3
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,460	You'll need a scandoubler (Indivision AGA 4000) and some sort of monitor switcher (or an LCDTV which incorporates both) to get the most out of it.

25 June 2010, 15:08	#4
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	Thanks for the Info, given me something to ponder

25 June 2010, 15:24	#5
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,685	How slow is this Radeon Ram? Slower than ZorRAM or the same? What effect would this have on general Workbench usage? Mr Frog has got me wanting one of these setups now lol

25 June 2010, 17:07	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,460	While it is something to consider: Michael Boehmer of E3B who created the ZorRAM said that he'd discovered a problem in the Buster 11 when using a Deneb (or any other Zorro III DMA master) and a ZorRAM at the same time. He was able to work around the problem in ZorRAM firmware. It is very unlikely that the Mediator PCI 4000Di will have this work around and very unlikely it will ever get it. I'd be reluctant to use the GFX card RAM as system memory if you have a Zorro III DMA master (Deneb, FastLane, A4091 etc)

27 June 2010, 12:27	#7
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	thanks for asking that question fitzsteve, I wanted to but was unable to get on EAB till now, daughters you got to love em, ok noob HardWare question how do I know/distinguish a Zorro III DMA master card ? your usb/scsi examples are helpful

27 June 2010, 12:54	#9
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	ok thanks

27 June 2010, 18:30	#13
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	thanks for your input fol but was`t aking if zorram works but now the question seems to be which dma master cards have problems with the mediator gfx ram so have you a usb soultion on your mediator and/or a scsi card ??

28 June 2010, 04:50	#14
ajacocks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA Posts: 59	So, I ordered this, when the deal became known. I got an order confirmation, but have yet to hear anything else. Has anyone else who ordered gotten product shipped, yet? 3+ weeks seems a long time to wait. I've emailed Elbox, but gotten no response.

07 July 2010, 05:25	#16
ajacocks Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA Posts: 59	Well, I finally got a reply, and they shipped the product 3 weeks after I ordered. If the product is as described, it will be fine, but that is very slow service, for a business.

07 July 2010, 11:11	#17
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	plz let us know how you go on setting it up ajacocks, how easy it is, dose it give a big boost, etc Pics would be nice too any way have fun with it

07 July 2010, 20:01	#19
cosmicfrog The 1 who ribbits Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: leek, Staffs, UK Age: 56 Posts: 3,557	one day My A4000 may be tricked out like that Fol, one day .....

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