Games intended for NTSC played on PAL machines

[idrougge]

Any graphics artist who draws oval suns and moons has forfeited his right to cry about his artwork being shown at the wrong aspect ratio.

[TEOL]

Pure NTSC games are listed as NTSC on the ADF or IPF or also only work in NTSC although most are multiregion titles dispite saying NTSC as they are not cropped in PAL mode but for those which don't work at all on PAL they are the 100% true pure titles.

Pure European games are Europe ones that don't work on the NTSC at all or do but with cropped text or game picture.

Multiregion or World game titles are those that display both formats flawlessly but in NTSC region they beneifit from a speed of gameplay increase dispite the downstairs letterbox on the picture which can probably be cropped off in it's own right with a newer CRT or LCD set with picture modes on it anyway so on some games it could be an improvement over playing it on PAL on these multiregion games.

Hope this helps you out with telling between a PAL/NTSC and a Region Free game.

There are some really for PAL game exceptions too like Captain Planet that benifit by having the picture cropped with a bottom letterbox and the faster speed boost as the bottom of the picture is a nonsence giant ring which adds nothing to the gameplay so playing in NTSC improves it as a game experience dispite being made for PAL in mind by having the crapping to begin with but genrally these are still PAL exclusive titles at heart as the cropping does happen.

[spud]

Dpaint 2 as bundled with my Screen Gems A500. Presumably an update for PAL territories (version "2.0p")

[Shot97]

Hello again everyone. I felt like just waiting a little while before replying, just wishing to do my best to not come off as too angry.

I'll start off with the last post on "true" NTSC games. You believe these are "true" because if you put those NTSC games in a PAL Amiga, they would crash the machine. I believe that's not a good way to use the term true in this case. Any games listed in that TOSEC collection as NTSC is because those games featured bootloaders. This means they bypassed AmigaDOS completely, not cooperating with the system.

By your definition we could have both a "true" NTSC game made in America and a "true" NTSC game that was designed in PAL mode. Arkanoid was an American game and it has both a PAL and NTSC version and it's labeled as such. This is because it bypassed AmigaDOS, that's where the crashing from everyone. A lot more PAL games would work in NTSC mode IF the developers cared about AmigaDOS at all, which they largely did not. Now, they might say that's to save memory or whatever, someone with a hard drive might say they're bunch of a bastards for not letting them use their thousand dollar hardware.

So because Arkanoid bypassed AmigaDOS it will crash on PAL machines, just like a whole lot of PAL games will crash on NTSC machines. This is why there's a "NTSC" label on a handful of games with that collection. But there are also "NTSC" labels on games that may not have been designed in America... Like maybe a Lemmings... Which bypassed AmigaDOS and they sold in Europe and America... Because AmigaDOS was bypassed they needed to make an "NTSC" version despite still being in 320x200, which is THE NTSC graphics mode. Had Lemmings used AmigaDOS, which, it probably could have, there's nothing special about Lemmings that needs those extra resources... But if it had used AmigaDOS, there would be no "NTSC" version of Lemmings, because it would simply just work.

So, if you are basing your knowledge of "NTSC" games based solely on a pirated collection of disk images, then I completely understand why there's no respect for American content with the Amiga. By and large European software companies utterly dismissed the Amiga's AWESOME operating system. Not just choosing to autoboot the game, but essentially hijacking the system and getting rid of AmigaDOS. There are indeed benefits to that, and as long as the game is small (1 or 2 floppies) go ahead I say...

The opposite is true for American developed games. Guys, even the HOL does not seem to care about posting American reviews with their huge list of European magazines, there were lots of American Amiga magazines, and also lots of general computer magazines which talked about the Amiga. One such awesome magazine which I had back in the day is called Amiga World. Despite rarely seeing any screenshots from HOL or the rack from this magazine, this magazine started before the Amiga was even out, and it lasted until 1995, after Commodore went under. Guys... Money was made here, things were created here, just attempt to note it please. This magazine is 100% screenshoted online, every issue ever made. It's out there for you guys to look at. Look at how much space in that magazine is devoted to things you have probably never seen in any of your European Amiga magazines... Like... HARD DRIVES! Reviews on them, advertisements ALLL over the magazine... Lots and lots of money for one, and you couldn't pirate it!

No American Amiga developer could get away with not using AmigaDOS. I've seen complaints in the user section of that magazine. No, not just the users, no, almost every review of a game talked about being able to install it or not. If you could not install the game, it was noted as a bad thing. This means that the vast majority of what I would call "true" NTSC games cooperate with DOS. Check out the readme file to the great American game Lost Dutchman Mine, which boasts that you can "pause" the game in progress, load it into memory, and start another game or do whatever else you want... Multitasking! One of the things that made the Amiga great!

Because 100% American designed Amiga games or ports cooperated with AmigaDOS, they will ALL work in PAL mode. That does not mean they are not "True" NTSC games. Now, when a 100% European designed platforming game that would never be released in America is designed in NTSC graphics mode (320x200) I would say that is not a "true" PAL game. A "true" PAL game simply uses 320x256, PAL graphics mode! I don't care if it crashes or not... Guys, take a screenshot in WinUAE of a 320x200 game... What does it output as? 320x256 with black boarders on the top and bottom. This is how most 320x200 games on HOL or Moby are shown. That means that a PAL Amiga did not have multiple resolutions of both 320x200 and 320x256, no... It had ONE, just like America had ONE. Keep in mind I'm talking about the primary gaming resolutions, there were many other display modes for both PAL and NTSC hardware, but neither mode had the same resolutions. PAL ONLY outputed in 320x256, but when 320x200 games were played on them, it showed black boarders everywhere. This is why there's no consistency about where the black boarders go, sometimes the playscreen is at the top, sometimes at the bottom, sometimes in the middle. If PAL machines could actually display truly 320x200, it would all be in the middle, or, (gasp) maybe even in 4:3 fully like it was in America. PAL designers that used 320x200 (described as NTSC in Deluxe Paint) were not designing a "true" PAL game in my mind. For whatever reasons they were not.

Just because there's not an "NTSC" writing on a bunch of pirated collections does not mean squat. I understand where you're coming from thinking that when you see something labeled "NTSC" but I've just presented with some valid information, I think you should consider it.

Just like I have taken in some posts stating that Deluxe Paint III and also Deluxe Paint II did indeed have a "PAL" mode... Or, I guess, more appropriately, it had a "PAL Version" released. Now, I was trying to shift a little bit of the blame for some of the European 320x200 games being in that mode by saying they didn't really have a choice, but I guess I have to revise my thoughts to what they were previously, in that it was mostly lazy programming. At least when it came to a certain type of game that would have never been released in America. If they were thinking they would sell it here, then yes, there's a reason for them to be in 320x200 mode. Although again, there were 320x256 PAL games that came out in America looking right, so, it could be done. But, seeing the screenshots and hearing the testimony, I now alter my opinion on that subject. That's what people should do when they come face to face with very good information. That's what I wish some more people would do with this NTSC stuff.

So, circles, if there's anyone out there that still thinks circles matter with the Amiga, although I can't for the life of me think of the last breathtaking circle I saw in any game... Just watch the videos, there's no debating it, the circles were not correct in NTSC mode ever. And wow, what an utter dismissal of someone's artwork by saying if they ever drew a sun that was not a perfect circle (ummm, is the sun a perfect circle by the way?) they have no right to complain about aspect ratios... Terrible... By the same token I could say any and all 320x200 games designed 100% in Europe that play on NTSC machines should be displayed in NTSC mode, because that's NTSC graphics mode, through and through. So screw what anyone else saw.

And you're going to say it's okay to show fattened faces and characters, distorted cars or whatever, just because of one single ellment that is wrong? Please, find your favorite game, and screenshot all of the wonderful circles that should be on all of our walls because they're so beautiful.

Oh, and by the way... I looked very hard in my newest review to see if Jim Sachs himself had indeed used the perfect circle tool for Defender of the Crown... Now, in the ENTIRE game, which features quite a bit of artwork... I found a circular object in the castle attack, with boulders, they look very circular... and the sun on the end screen, which also looks like a circle in NTSC mode, so, Jim used the free form tool instead of the perfect circle tool, good for him... But count them TWO examples of a circle in that game, and so many would hunt and hunt for those two circles and if they were not perfect in NTSC mode, you'd say that was a PAL game, even though NTSC mode never did perfect circles with the default tool in Deluxe Paint? You'd utterly dismiss his right to complain about it, when two screens show a circular object? How do you guys have such an eye for a circle, yet no eye what so ever for a face?

I recently watched a video on Might and Magic III for DOS, where the guy was debating if he should aspect ratio correction in DOSBox or not. He pointed out the faces, they look right being in 4:3 - But look at these things on the corners of the screen, they look like circles in widescreen... He finally decided it should be 4:3 when he made circles with his mouse and they were circular in 4:3 but oval in widescreen... That's intriguing, I've never heard that before and I'm going to try it myself...BUT... All that fuss he made over 4 of the smallest screen elements in the game, he thought the designers did not communicate with each other. That whoever did the portraits was in 4:3 but whoever the other part was in widescreen...No, all DOS computers everywhere in the world displayed in 4:3 - But that game used Deluxe Paint just like most of them did. I don't even see why your eyes instantly go to that junk. As far as I'm concerned those are emeralds that are supposed to be slightly oval. It's the least important thing on the entire screen and yet this guy almost showed the entire game in widescreen because of it. Again, all of you critics out there, please hand draw me your perfect circle. It's the hardest thing for an artist to do, why would I pay attention to it in a game when there are a million other things to look at? And by the way, there always was that "free form" circle tool. There may be ovals out there that were supposed to look like ovals...Not circles... Just a thought. Personally, I don't care about circles with these games. I'll let everyone know the next time my mind if blown with the artwork on one, though.

Alright, so I've covered "true NTSC" mode and I've covered PAL Deluxe Paint and circles some more. The other thing I wanted to address was "aspect ratio correction" that the one guy thinks is worse than showing it in widescreen. If you guys think I'm super anal, I don't see why nobody said anything to that guy. Now, I point the camera at my CRT screen for my videos, 100% my choice because that's how I feel it looks best. So my footage is not aspect ratio corrected. However, I have no issues with anyone out there using whatever WinUAE throws at you for NTSC mode. Just like "technically" speaking, all PAL footage is also incorrect in emulators and screenshots. 320x256 (PAL Mode) is not a true 4:3 aspect ratio just like 320x200 is not a true 4:3 aspect ratio. But 320x256 games were also meant to be shown in 4:3 via the monitor and hardware. Now, that's much less noticeable, I honestly don't care. I only mention it because this guy wants to say taking a 320x200 game and putting in a 4:3 aspect ratio, like 640x480 or 800x600 is just as bad as leaving it in 320x200. No way.

He wants you to put in 1600x1200 so any half pixels would show up correctly. And yes, this is "more right" but to hell with anyone that thinks putting it right to 800x600 is wrong or just as bad as 320x200. Okay Lemon, okay HOL, okay Moby, those 40 screenshots you have for every single game? Yeah, let's do them all over again at 1600x1200.... Hope you got some more bandwidth! THAT is being anal. You know, all footage of NES games are shown wrong online too... The NES has a 256x240 resolution, almost completely square, it should be wider in 4:3, but, I'm not going about with anywhere near the same passion talking about that. It's wrong but it's not obviously wrong. When people play NTSC Amiga games in almost 16:9 it is obviously wrong. I'd ask for anyone looking into showing these games right not to be driven away by someone saying it's got to be in 1600x1200. Try them both out, and also, which nobody else does, if you have a CRT and a real Amiga, try taking a picture of the actual screen. Which is what I do for a lot of "screenshots" because even thought that also is not 100% accurate to what I see, it is the closest thing. Compare all 3 of those shots and good luck figuring out the difference between a 320x200 screenshot that was stretched into 800x600 VS 1600x1200, in fact, you'll notice a lot more blurriness if you do that. So, downsides and upsides to both. You'd have to zoom in to where the pixels dominate your screen to spot the differences between those two methods. I care about the issue for artistic merit, but even I am not that anal.

I believe someone also talked about me not mentioning pixel stretching at some point, it was indeed mentioned in the video but I went on to talking about things. That has never been a huge thing for me to talk about. Yes, it's a reason games were meant to be in 4:3 despite being in a very wide 320x200 resolution, but I'd rather talk about the art and other things. And also, I personally don't feel there was as much stretching as some feel. I would love to get a hold of these designers and ask some questions on this stuff. For example, I've got a DOS/Win3/Win98 machine all on a CRT monitor. I can go from Win98 playing a game in a true 4:3 aspect ratio like 800x600 and then use a dos prompt in full screen and play a 320x200 game in 4:3 filling the entire screen. I can be in DOS and play a true 4:3 game in 640x480, quit the game and immediately load a 320x200 game and it's in 4:3 - If the monitors were meant to do all the stretching once DOS went SVGA all the old 320x200 games would have looked widescreen back in the 90's, they did not.

Also, a system like the Amiga was designed not only for monitors but for televisions. I believe I already went over some of this stuff, how the Atari 2600 had a resolution taller than wide, how the NES was almost completely square, and how the Amiga was very wide, yet all of them displayed in 4:3 on an NTSC television. There was obviously something going on inside of the hardware before the signal ever left the machine to put it into 4:3 - This is what I believe to be true. These are things the designers should be asked but nobody seems to care. I don't know if that was digital or analog, but I'm pretty sure stuff was being done by these machines themselves. You can plug these machines into a VCR and record them, it comes out as 4:3 - Do the same with a capture card, 4:3 - The pixel stretching done by the monitor I believe was very minimal, although present to some degree. But again, the Amiga could also be connected to your TV in America, it came out in 4:3 - They could not have wanted you to stretch that image, because once you went back to regular television it would have looked incorrect. All of those systems, no matter the resolution, came out filling an American television in 4:3

None of that again, was meant to offend, besides maybe the guy who stated artists don't even have a right to complain when they drew a non perfect sun. The sun is not a perfect sphere, nor is our planet. And the grand total of circles in Defender of the Crown was TWO. Now even though Jim did get those two circles right, let's dismiss all the other artists who ever dared use the tool that was supposed to make a perfect circle. Come on now.

[Shot97]

So now that I've gotten the direct replies out of the way, thank you very kindly to anyone that did agree these games should be shown in 4:3 - I do see there are people here that know about the issue. I've known that before, that forums have spoken it for some time, but I also get the feeling there may be some here thinking the entire world is thinking like you do. Most people don't have a clue on this. Most people have no idea, I'm just trying to get that information out there. Some people do have an idea, and for various reasons they're wrong concerning the Amiga because it's a little more tricky than normal. People that do care about aspect ratios can often get it wrong with the Amiga.

But let's face it, the vast majority of videos and screenshots are showing 320x200 American Amiga games wrong, they're showing DOS games wrong, they're showing all sorts of systems wrong... And to a much lesser degree, they're even showing 320x256 PAL games wrong. There is an issue out there, and not a soul on YouTube is talking about it. One of the main people from Lemon Amiga commented on my video saying he had no idea about it and thanked me for it. Hopefully, Lemon, a very big Amiga site, can do something with that information for historical purposes.

The thing with these forums is even if you guys agree with me, even if you hate the way I talk about it... Which, by the way, I once talked about this in a much different way, very nicely, and nobody cared... I do believe perhaps a little anger/rant is justified on this topic. However, other than one guy who claimed in his video description he was the ONLY one showing Amiga games right (he simply cropped the black bars and enlarged it to fit your screen, still incorrect aspect ratio for the game he was playing) - Which I started off discussing nicely... And then HE got nasty saying he knew everything there was to know about the Amiga, I could teach him nothing... Then I got nasty too. He didn't even know the Amiga had a "medium resolution" of 640x200 in NTSC and 640x256 in PAL... SUUUPER WIDE... That's Workbench, and it's distorted heavily in both NTSC and PAL modes, it's even in a few games... I couldn't teach him a thing though... And that's how it works with me. I don't go to anyones videos like a troll and say they've got their videos wrong, not unless they themselves mention aspect ratios or something looking right or wrong. That's the only way I'll talk about it somewhere else. But my videos are my own, I'll talk about whatever I want in whatever ways I want. The way I talk on my own videos about the things I'm passionate about I do not understand why that automatically means I'm a bastard... It's my video, I want to talk about the things I want to talk about. Being an asshole about it would be going to other's videos and doing the same all the time... I don't do that. I watch far more videos than I make, unheard of with almost all YouTube personalities. I comment on other's videos, I like other's videos, check out my "liked" playlist everyone... If you take the time to look, I feel I've always been a very nice person.

Anyway, whatever you think of me, I'm pretty much the only one showing American NTSC games as close to the way the designer intended them to be seen as possible. It's okay to not like me, we're all different... But I am VERY different... And, should you watch my last video on Defender of the Crown, I'm actually attempting to be a little transformative in my reviews... You might not like me, but several of you are aware of me I can see from previous topics... People are aware of me here, might not like me, but you also don't seem to respect me... and that I don't understand. Perhaps because you guys feel you've already spoken about it, okay, I can sure state that I used zero content from this forum to do those PAL/NTSC videos, so, it's not like I've stolen anything. I am extremely passionate with my discussions and my reviews... I'm different than anyone out there, and I have a whole hell of a lot of Amiga reviews... Much more than say an LGR, who hasn't done an Amiga game in like 3 years...

But you have that little sticky article in this forum with over 80,000 views. You guys know of me, but apparently this one guy showing American NTSC games correctly and is also doing very unique reviews is not worthy of a little mention there? For the other people who might not hate me so much? Not even worth a little mention? I see these things guys, I notice them... Lemon was kind enough to say thank you for these videos right on my videos... Of course the same guy from Lemon said I was annoying in the forums... I can see that, I can see why some would feel that. But a little respect would be nice. I feel it was very dismissive in these forums, even the people that agree with me. This is a concerning topic, it deserves to be discussed... I wanted someone else to do it, I waited years for someone else to do it... Nobody did on YouTube... So I'm the bastard that gets to stand up in front of everyone and face the wrath. A little bit of respect would be nice because I am trying to do something good.

I wished to give you all examples of most of my content, should you wish to check it out. I do mostly reviews on games. I cover all sorts of systems but there's a large group of Amiga games there, I love it more than any other. I feel they're different from anything out there...

[ Show youtube player ] is my newest video on Defender of the Crown, which I dedicated to Jim Sachs, should anyone care to look.

I have also started writing reviews on the very small Amiga forum AmigaLove.

Here is my written review of Defender of the Crown, also dedicated to Jim Sachs.

There actually is a lot of love in me, and if you hear my voice in that video, you'll know it's sincere and it's worth existing. I feel those are my best reviews yet, so, I'd ask for anyone to give them a "shot" as it were. Thank you. I really don't like whoring myself out, I'm not about self promotion, but if I ever do link my stuff, I'm going to write in a way that's unique... Because I respect all of you out there on a forum. I know a lot of people will come on a forum like this, post a link to their stuff, then goodbye! That's not me... I respect the way forums should work, there should be a discussion going on... Please respect me too.

[idrougge]

I'm a good reader, but if I've ever seen a tl;dr, it's in this thread. You should consider writing for Amiga World.

[nogginthenog]

Originally Posted by Shot97

Look at how much space in that magazine is devoted to things you have probably never seen in any of your European Amiga magazines... Like... HARD DRIVES!

You have obviously not read many European Amiga magazines.

[idrougge]

At least not German mags. They're just as mind-numbingly boring as Amiga World.

[chaos]

Shot97:

I'd just like to point out a few facts that you may (or not) have missed:

- Amiga hardware (or any other computer / console at the time) didn't do any stretching of the image to fit the screenmode. That was done by the TV / monitor.
- A 'perfectly' round circle is probably one with the same width and height in pixels (I'm guessing done with the Bresenham's modified line drawing algorithm updated for circles). Such a circle will of course look wrong both in NTSC *and* PAL modes, as used on the Amiga, because neither NTSC *or* PAL had perfect 4:3 screenmode that would match the physical dimensions of the screens (NTSC = 320x200, PAL=320x256, 4:3=320x240). Such a circle would look stretched vertically in NTSC mode, and slightly stretched horizontally in PAL mode, with PAL being much closer to 'real' 4:3 format, so the distortion is only slight, and much bigger in NTSC mode.
- Contrary to modern PCs, where pixels are assumed to always be of a square shape (you are very rarely going to see any stretching done on a PC), this was not the case on the Amiga - both NTSC and PAL were stretched to the dimensions of the screen, not to mention Hires/non-laced modes - these had twice the number of pixels horizontally compared to lores, with the same number of lines, so if you would look at the same bitmap in both lores and hires modes, they would *also* look stretched.
- Even though some early versions of Deluxe Paint didn't have PAL support, doesn't mean that game designers couldn't make a perfect PAL game. Do not confuse bitmap resolution with screenmode resolution, as they are not the same.
- There are reasons beyond screenmode why some PAL game might onyl have 320x200 used screen space, more memory bandwidth needed for CPU for one.

And now to reasons why Europeans just might not care about this as much as you do:
- most TVs in Europe were capable of displaying both PAL and NTSC screenmodes
- our minds are pretty adjustable, I don't think I ever even noticed that NTSC games were stretched
- we had *a lot* of European titles of our own to play

And, the last thing I'd like to say: I think a lot of us on this side of the pond didn't even realize that Amiga was made in US. I certainly thought that Commodore was a German company, since both my C64 and A500 came from Germany.

[Retro-Nerd]

Chaos nailed it here. And as i said: The console situation is worthy of discussion. The 90%+ origin NTSC games runs with black border and a squeezed image on PAL machines, slow 50fps too. Because these PAL versions are still true NTSC games which are only PAL standard compatible. Only a few people modded their consoles for a proper NTSC/60Hz output, which also shows the correct aspect ratio then.

The Amiga has 80-90%+ origin PAL games, rest was NTSC developments which also had proper PAL versions. Are there any NTSC only Amiga games? If not this discusion is indeed pointless.

[intric8]

It is worth noting that, in regards to Defender of the Crown on NTSC, the artist and designer of the game - Jim Sachs - responded to Shot97's video review of his game today.

Jim Sachs said, "Thanks for the great review, and especially for showing everything in the PROPER ASPECT RATIO!"

Kind of amazing to see Jim still active and passionate about this issue 30 years after the game was originally published.


[ Show youtube player ]

See attached:

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by Shot97

Arkanoid was an American game and it has both a PAL and NTSC version and it's labeled as such. This is because it bypassed AmigaDOS, that's where the crashing from everyone. A lot more PAL games would work in NTSC mode IF the developers cared about AmigaDOS at all, which they largely did not.

So because Arkanoid bypassed AmigaDOS it will crash on PAL machines, just like a whole lot of PAL games will crash on NTSC machines. This is why there's a "NTSC" label on a handful of games with that collection. But there are also "NTSC" labels on games that may not have been designed in America... Like maybe a Lemmings... Which bypassed AmigaDOS and they sold in Europe and America... Because AmigaDOS was bypassed they needed to make an "NTSC" version despite still being in 320x200, which is THE NTSC graphics mode. Had Lemmings used AmigaDOS, which, it probably could have, there's nothing special about Lemmings that needs those extra resources... But if it had used AmigaDOS, there would be no "NTSC" version of Lemmings, because it would simply just work.

Sorry, but I've never read a bigger load of crap in my life. Bypassing AmigaDOS has absolutely nothing to do with screenmodes or crashing on PAL machines. Lemmings may have been done in 320x200 to keep the frame rate up or so they could easily port it to the Atari ST. And Arkanoid is 320x216 so presumably that shows how stupid the developer was to "waste" an extra 16 lines for overscan when it only needed to be 200 pixels tall (since according to you it crashes on PAL machines anyway)?

Any coder worth his salt can make a game 320x200 or 320x256 with or without AmigaDOS and working fine on both machines, including playing the music at the correct speed (usually just skip one call to the replayer after every 5) to allow for the 50->60 Hz difference.

Your argument has more holes than Swiss cheese.

[Retro-Nerd]

Actually i haven't read most of his stuff before. But since you've quoted this Arkanoid/Lemmings passage. I'm a layman when it comes to Amiga programming. But this shows that he doesn't have a clue at all how the Amiga works, both on hardware and software level. Besides the fact that he confuses TV standards, resolutions, pixel aspect und TV/monitor aspect ratios. I like his passion for the topic, but he clearly wasted his time on it.

[Codetapper]

Originally Posted by Shot97

One such awesome magazine which I had back in the day is called Amiga World. Despite rarely seeing any screenshots from HOL or the rack from this magazine, this magazine started before the Amiga was even out, and it lasted until 1995, after Commodore went under.

The Amiga Mag Rack does have some Amiga World reviews, but I don't have any issues hence I haven't indexed any of them. Compared to the UK magazines, they're as dull as dishwater, and they don't even have review scores so the site can't even calculate a top 500 reviews page.

You are welcome to index the missing magazines and send them for inclusion if you wish to help (and they feed into HOL automatically).

[Shot97]

Yes, I clearly wasted my time... God... Some of you people are just some of the worst human beings I have come across... Well... I'd respond...Oh, and I CAN respond...

But apparently elite forum members will make complete judgments on you based on not what they read from you, all of what you wrote...no, no... They will base their entire opinion on what a couple lines someone quoted...

Much new blood coming into EAB these days? I can't imagine with members like that... You people are not even worth it...

Waste my time... The only man on YouTube showing American NTSC games correctly, oh, and a real artist has praise for it... Absolutely zero respect given here for such a feet. Keep living in your forum bubble, the only waste of time is writing to a group like you.

[Shot97]

I so honestly would love to discuss a lot of these ideas with you. There are areas I might have things I can learn, the problem is, I'm pretty sure there are areas some of you can learn from too...And that's the problem, I feel there are those among you that consider yourself above everyone else...

Even Jim Sachs... The guy who actually wrote on the machine... One of the first... Still has that machine... I'm sure there are things some of you know about that machine that even he does not know... It does not make you right about this issue.

His games and a whole lot of others are being shown wrong. That's the main thing here, that's the main issue. And that, I am right about...

Other things I write about in those long writings, perhaps some of that is open for discussion... I could discuss it... But some of you want to dismiss everything I say, period, you don't want to discuss it...

I would love to have real discussions with a real Amiga board... But in those long writings of mine, again, other than when I mentioned the one person, I'm not here to attack, I'm just passionate, guys... You can steer me in a better direction in some areas I'm sure, but I can do the same for you, if you read and you discuss.

This I'm sure of. I could be a valuable member here, if I'm wanted...But... I really feel like I'm not. And I do believe, being the single person on YouTube who shows these American games right, I feel I have a reason to exist... Come to some of those videos guys, discuss them... My list is NOWHERE near complete, I have a whole lot more American and PAL games and other systems as well to show off...

I feel I'm a good person with a real passion... and... By and large none of my writings here were meant to offend.... Some of your writings... They are... and... It's just not necessary... I should be respected... I am doing the Amiga universe a solid by discussing this issue and going one further, showing the games as American's saw them.

I never wished to kick any Europeans in the teeth, but there was an Amiga in America, we did invent the thing, and up until and after Commodore went under American software and games were actually being made... It's the truth... This stuff deserves to be shown on YouTube and HOL and Moby and Lemmon in the correct aspect ratio as the designer wished. Maybe show them both, go ahead, but show it as the designer intended first.

And for God's sake... The one YouTuber showing this stuff right... A little more respect would be a little nice... Jim Sachs guys... You can't get much better praise than that...

EVERYTHING I EVER DID WAS WORTH IT FOR THAT ONE THING RIGHT THERE! JIM SACHS EVERYONE! It was ALLLLLL worth it!

[Retro-Nerd]

Firstable, nobody disrespects you here or the things you are doing. You are overreacting, and you write way too many text walls to make your point. While some things you said are true you wrote a lot of nonsense due to superficial knowledge. Some Amiga experts (NOT ME) already replied to it in a proper way and tried to explain it.

And this "i'm the only youtuber who shows it correct..." blabla doesn't help you either. Especially blaming i.e. HOL (a EUROPEAN DATABASE) for showing things "incorrectly" is a bit insulting. I'm pretty sure Jim Sachs doesn't even know how a proper PAL version of an Amiga game has to look. HOL shows DotC perfectly fine btw. It's a 320x200 (16:10) viewable image embedded in the PAL 320x256 (5:4) resolution. That TVs and monitors stretches it into a 4:3 aspect has nothing to do with the Amiga or the software itself.

[TjLaZer]

I think the issue is the user's native video standard. Europeans were used to PAL and happily ran their Amiga 500/2000's in PAL mode and simply got used to the large gap at the bottom on "NTSC" games. They didn't care to figure out how to force their system to NTSC to fill up the screen or increase the refresh rate, as they didn't know about that. The 50Hz screen did not bother them at all.

Now an American who was used to NTSC (me) I found it rather annoying when I saw that large gap, and the flickering screens of 50Hz drove me up a wall. Though if I was running a true PAL game (ie filled the screen) I did not mind it as I rather see the whole screen of a game vs run it faster with less flicker. Why some games ran on both systems vs not? Not sure why but maybe it was bad programming. Doesn't matter. What annoys me really bad, especially lately with WHDLoad! Is when they create a slave for a NTSC game, and it will only run in PAL mode! (When run on an NTSC system or PAL with NTSC tooltype, it locks up) One example is Chaos Engine AGA. The game clearly uses an NTSC screen mode, but only runs on PAL... and has that ANNOYING large gap at the bottom! Arrgghhhh.

[Retro-Nerd]

One example is Chaos Engine AGA. The game clearly uses an NTSC screen mode, but only runs on PAL... and has that ANNOYING large gap at the bottom! Arrgghhhh.

I don't think so. They selected the embedded 320x200 in 320x256 PAL to save CPU resources for all the animations/effects etc. A lot of Amiga games did it that way. And don't forget the ST to Amiga ports which sometimes even have bigger borders on the Amiga.

[TjLaZer]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

I don't think so. They selected the embedded 320x200 in 320x256 PAL to save CPU resources for all the animations/effects etc. A lot of Amiga games did it that way. And don't forget the ST to Amiga ports which sometimes even have bigger borders on the Amiga.

But this game clearly looks like it's NTSC running on PAL with the infamous large black gap at the bottom!